As a WEC attendee do you receive and examples or training on how to use the socrates system? Are you taught how to use the array, Directional changes panic cycles in combinations with the reversals, what about the energy and indicating ranges, pivot points technical levels, does anyone use these?
There is a guide and old posts but you really have to look for the information on the website to try and figure it all out, and as you can see here there is a lot of discussion but there is no real agreement on how it all works.

Just curious what the wec people get what we don´t, maybe with that it clears up a lot.

thanks

"If you penetrate a reversal and then FAIL to elect it, this typically signal a move back in the opposite direction."

For what I have seen this is not the case, especially when there are Directional changes or Panic cycles. What I have seen happen is that price will penetrate 2 or 3 reversal but only 1 of them and the next day the other reversals will be elected. So have a look at the currencies, they are very precise and when a reversal holds it will often be within a few pips, if it penetrates the reversal, in my experience, it means price is likely to continue even if the penetrated reversal is not elected that same day. As I mentioned before, Directional changes are usually present when this happens.

I don´t know why he wrote it because if you follow price and reversals you will quickly see that it is just not true, if price stops at a reversal within a few pips and there is a DC or a turning point that day/week whatever, that is when price will likely revers, as he always says, time is then up.

 

I also found it strange that there were so many of these. I see them everywhere, sometimes 2 minors and 1 major reversal on a weekly, maybe he means maj reversals only?

There was an other directional trade today in OIL today: An opening above 6390 would imply the directional change would be a rally, a close above 6424 would warn of a rally until the next turning point.

I missed it because by the time I checked the market this morning (Central europe) price had already moved 2.5%!
That´s 8/8 so far.

The DC´s do change but these messages are given on the day itself. So today on the USDCAD it said there was a directional change and gave those numbers. Socrates does not usually give these numbers, it often just says something like, Potential of decline/rally etc.

Today was another directional change on the USDCAD where the direction was given. An open above 1.33240 would mean a rally and it opened 1.33413 on my charts and it is now at 1.33832 so a decent move so far. A close above  1.33730 will mean a rally till the next turning point which seems to be Monday or Tuesday since they have the same aggregate bar high, they also have directional changes.

This is now 7/7 correct so far. You like being an active trader just check socrates every morning and place the trade according to the open (unless it is to close and your data differs from Socrates).

I wonder where these numbers come from. They don´t seem to be reversals nor are they the closing price of the day before, or pivot points, no idea.

Anyway 7/7 could still be just a streak, lets see how many in a row are correct. If anyone finds one let me know so we can keep track.

Take the 1 to 3 time units with a grain of salt. Sometimes there are huge gaps on the daily level and price will get hung up on the technical levels. As an example Oil elected a bullish on 57.45 on March 13th and it diden´t reach the next reversal at 61.29 until April 1st, so 13 time units away.

I asked them about this 3 times and never got a reply, I thought there was something wrong with the arrays. They are sure taking their time to fix the bug.

Hi

I have also been using the socrates pro level for a few months and started off drowning in all the info especially since sometimes there are contradictions  and bugs in the text analysis provided. In addition, the reversal that are on the dashboard are not all in on tab parts for the reversals, the reversal tab is often missing reversals.
There are also more things to take in to account than only the reversals, I have seen a few very nice setups where there was a large gap, the reversal was elected, and price starts to move only to stop right at the technical level and then reverse. Armstrong has mentioned this to, so he did warn us about this happening. I have also seen reversal elected and then price just simply move the wrong direction without any real cause. Last week it happened with the USDCAD and this week it was USDCHF where on Monday 15th a major bearish reversal was elected, price dropped to touch a tech level and then just shot higher. In this case, the bearish probably failed because price elected a weekly bullish the week before which I guess, “over powered” the daily bearish, and again, the guide mentions this, but that means you need to keep an eye on all the reversal levels.
One of the problems with the reversals, if you to trade the way armstrong recommends is that the stop loss should be placed at the next opposite reversal, which is sometimes miles away! This means you will often have terrible Risk Reward ratio (if you use the next reversal as the target). Granted, Armstrong says it is best to wait and to look for trades where the bullish and bearish reversals are close together, so you have low risk and a large reward, but this doesn’t seem to happen very often.
Another thing with the reversals is the What-If scenarios that sometimes happens. As an example, price elects a bullish reversal at 100, next reversal is 110, price shoots up to 105 and then that same day price generated and elected a bearish reversal. Therefore, you will need to check the socrates for this every day if you trade the daily reversals. I haven´t see this happen very often but large gaps are also not very common which makes it a little frustrating when it does happen.
Regarding the arrays, I have only used them to time when a breakout will happen using the Directional changes, other than that I can’t seem to get the hang of them. I have saved weeks of arrays, saving them every day to see how they evolve over time but the high bars just constantly change so much that there is no way of knowing the turning point. What often seems to happen is that 3day out there will be a massive composite high, then the next day this bar will have all but disappeared and then suddenly reappear the day it is due. I have even started checking the numbers or the counts of each bar that is given on the main page of the premium account and the same thing happens, it’s as if the arrays break down 2-3 days out. If anyone can help me out with this I would appreciate it, it has been frustrating to say the least.
Last thing I want to comment on is when there is a Directional change due. Sometimes on the array page Socrates will print something like this “However, an opening above 100 will imply the directional change may point to a rally, and a close above 110 will mean a really will unfold till the next turning point”. These don´t happen very often but since I have started looking for this, they have always been correct. Here a few if you can back check.
07-03 DOW:    Open above 257356 means rally, opened below and dropped 285 points
13-03 USDCAD: Open above 133850 means rally
11-03 DAX:    Open above 114515 means rally, price opened and 11493 and rallied 100points!
14-03 DAX:    Open above 115420 means rally, price reached 11642 and failed to elect the reversal at 11641 and closed neutral.
21-06 GBPUSD: Open above 13212 means rally, price opened 1.31939 and dropped 1.4% until bearish reversal at 1.0110.

The first time I tried to trade this setup was on the on April 9, USDCHF: An open above 0.99930 will mean rally and a close above will mean 100080 rally until next turning point. I lost money on this because my broker said the open was just below while the next day Socrates said it was just above. I didn’t know I should have checked the Reuters feed since it was so close, lesson learned. 

I have screen shots is people don’t believe that Socrates printed the above numbers.

I haven´t been following the page so much because of all the bashing of martin armstong. I want to discuss his system and socrates and nothing else and now I see there are a few more of us I hope we can bounce ideas off each other and learn a thing or to. I hope we can do that here if not, maybe we should start a form somewhere else. 

Armstrong said that the weekly to watch is 25980 and there is also a daily at 25966.5 which we have now reached. Yesterday was a turning point and we could not elect the reversal so it should be the high. It is also a weekly turning point so it could also mean the high is in for the week.

I had my TP at that level but I think it could eventually go lower. There is a small group of daily bearish reversals around 1.1298, which is also a weekly bearish. I am going to be buying here.

Another trade I took is the GBPUSD. It apparently had elected a few bullish reversals what were below the low. Armstrong has commented before that sometimes Socrates will generate a bullish reversal below price, I think thats what happened.
Anyway, I took profit and went long at, and I am not joking, 1.28580 since the reversal was a 1.28550. Its just ridiculous, how can it be so accurate.

Who else here have the Premium account?   

There is a gap between the elected weekly and then next at 25966 but there are 4 daily reversals inbetween so I guess how quick we elect those will determine the timing but according to the reversal system the weekly should reach the next reversal. 

I agree on gold, its crazy that it got so close. I had that reversal in place since July when Socrates was positing only one weekly and one monthly reversal, just insane.

For people who are curious, the EURUSD elected a daily bearish at 1.14410 with the next at 1.13340 but there is still some technical support around 1.13800.

As armstrong says, follow the reversals and arrays, so maybe we should just use his numbers. What has always been frustrating with his posts is that they are so few and he never gives all the numbers and also does not update, the new socrates does do this, so you will know where to place entries, stops and when to get out and reverse.

Just giving these numbers so people here have something tangible, I may update the EURUSD for a while so people can see for themselves if socrates is accurate. But for 150$ you have all the info on all timescales so just go try it for a month, if you think its BS then stop your subscription and look for something else, that´s what I am doing.
 

So now it seems like the Low may be in place and we could see a cycle inversion! Armstrong says that the major weekly is now the around the 26000 level and if we elect that then it could mean the low is in place.

They array clearly shows that the turning point with DC was last week, so the high should be in, but there is also a panic cycle so we could make a higher high and then collapse or just drop down, but is there also a possibility that we price just shoots up and ignore the top column of the arrays?? Maybe it is just best to ignore the arrays when there is a panic cycle like when there is a DC since anything can happen.

I guess this is what some of you have been talking about, no matter what happens he will turn out right, he has hedged his bets. New low, he is right, new high he is correct again.
When we made the low near 21600 he started saying the low was not in yet and we would see lower lows, now he changed his tone and is saying the low could be in.

Your trading at such a short time frame than I am. I´m still in my shorts which are now in the profit but I am going to hold till we finally reach the low (just hope the panic cycle won´t spike me out of the trade).

We still have a 12% drop to make a new low this month and only 4 days to do it so I guess it will be consolidation until March, May? lets see if Armstrong posts an update soon.

Also, has anyone managed to get the pro trader pack of socrates? I am still getting payment error issues.

Good Job on the trading guys! Making off like a bandit lol.

I got out of my longs yesterday with trailing stop and now shorted for the low at 21600 level. I was expecting the dow to reach 25000 level but alas.
The EURUSD also did not reach the 1.131 level but as armstrong said Monday should be the low for now.

Looks like Socrates is finally being rolled out. There are still startup issues it seems, can´t complete the payment but it will probably be fixed soon enough. 

Can´t wait to check it out.

Yeah, sounds like a good idea. Would be nice to know how reliable it is. Socrates is down for maintenance but this morning when I checked silver had again closed below the crash level, I just can´t remember where today´s level is. It might have reached the next level already and bounced off it, I will check it later and give an update.

But to answer your question I will follow the crash and breakout levels of EURUSD, GBPUSD and Silver and make a spreadsheet.

I just came to comment on that! Also, Soc said price closed below the crash support on Friday so we price should crash today.

"We did break below the intraday Crash Point number warning that this is a panic sell-off type of move. We did close above the previous session's Intraday Crash Mode technical support indicator which was 154657 settling at 155360. The current crash mode support for this session was 154273 which we penetrated intraday and closed below warning this market is in a panic type sell-off. The Intraday Crash indicator for the next session will be 152895. Remember, opening below this number in the next session will warn that the market may enter an abrupt panic sell-off to the downside. Normally, when you open back above this pivot number or closed back above it then the sell-off is subsiding. So, watch this number which is dynamic for it changes with each session."

It says the same for the DOW, but for breaking out:
"We did close below the previous session's Intraday Projected Breakout Resistance indicator which was 2445046 settling at 2437010 gesturing that the market is not in a breakout mode at that precise moment. The current Projected Breakout Resistance for this session was 2464431 which we have now closed above suggesting the market is starting to possibly breakout to the upside if it can be maintain in the next trading session. The Projected Breakout Resistance indicator for the next session will be 2494655. Normally, when you open back below this resistance number or closed back below it then the rally is losing momentum. So, watch this number which is dynamic for it changes with each session."

The next breakout resistance indicator is 2494655 which is almost the same as the Daily Bullish at 24952. This is my take profit target and where I will then sell.

Also, I cant remember the last time Armstrong actually gave some trading advice. He has said sell here and put the stop there, normally he never even mentions stops or entry points just lots of what ifs and you will have to use your own judgement for the stop level.

The key day for a target will be Monday 21st. The following week of the 28th remains  as a Panic Cycle. We still see a
closing above 24089 should point to the test of the 25000 area. There will still be the risk of a retest of the lows after the 21st.

Not a lot to interpret here so lets see if he is correct.
Although for the sceptics, 24000 and 25000 are also just big round numbers and often function as support and resistance levels/zones. But his prediction of the Monday high is very specific.

The array and reversals have been doing their job for the currencies though.

The EURUSD crashed after testing the weekly reversal at 1.15600 and the GBPUSD also just penetrated the weekly 1.29280 and has been dropping like a brick since.
One more trade I took was the USDCHF where price dropped way below the monthly and weekly, both around 0.97900 but then closed above it by Friday. I have been checking the crash levels Socrates was giving and the crash support on Thursday and Friday was 0.97370, price penetrated it on thursday and then again by only 20pips on Friday before shooting up. This last one could be a coincidence as Socrates does give a lot of numbers.
I am curious if the next weekly bearish reversal was also around the 0.97370 level.

There is something to the reversals and the arrays, it is just difficult if you don´t have all the information.