Please understand I am saying this respectfully, with a smile on my face...  Why are you trying to make a decision for them at all?

The people who bought into the group buy already made their decision.  That decision should stand unless they specifically change it.  I respectfully suggest: you should not think you need to make a decision for them at all.  They made their decision; respect it.  

Your safest option is to accept "refund requests" by shares owned.  As soon as you have enough "refund shares," get a refund of the last miner ordered and "slide" everyone else who remains in the group buy "up" to fill those emptied slots.  

You don't need to make a decision for anyone.  Let those who have decided to get a refund, get a refund.  The rest of your members' decisions should be left alone.

Thanks for being so thoughtful and concerned for your group buy members.  It does you credit.  But I think you are making this an all-or-nothing proposition when it doesn't need to be.  Based on your numbers earlier in the thread, you already have enough refund-ready shareholders to get a refund for them.  I'm making an assumption here, but if my assumption is right, why wait?  Refund one or more of the miners in the second buy (so no one can be moved from buy #1 to #2) and send them their coin.    

P.S. This method will make the refunders happy, and it will also cause some of the people in buy #2 to be very happy.  They will "magically" find themselves "moved up" into buy #1, and not have to wait as long to begin receiving a return.  Everyone gets to be happy this way.  Just something for you to consider...

Waldo?

Please?

Murt,

You may be missing my entire point.  I am not a speculator.  My goal is not to have some coins sitting in my wallet.  My goal is to participate in the bitcoin network, and have a powerful miner working on my behalf, 24/7 for a long time.  If all I wanted was some coin to hold, I would never have bought into an ASIC group buy at all.

Please don't speculate with my coin.  And that's what you (you all asking to bail out of these miners) are doing.  Had the BTC price risen, this thread would not even exist.  So, the only reason you want this is because of price speculation.  "Let's buy some coin now, with a refund, and hope the price goes back up."

And when you say "absolutely no chance of ROI," let's talk about that.  Are you familiar with the BFL Singles?  Do you think there is any ROI on those now?

In fact, I have one (technically, two Little Singles) sitting here right now, mining away (and I was a late purchaser).  They netted me over $150 in the last 30 days.  You know what it costs me to run them?  A few bucks in electricity.  They will give me "ROI" for quite a long time to come.

I understand the speculator mindset.  You put X number of coins into the group buy, and now that the USD/BTC price has fallen, you might get back almost that many coins immediately.  But you would then be out of the bitcoin mining industry altogether.  You'd have some coins in your wallet, but no way to get any more, except through an outlay of fiat.

I don't want to be out of the bitcoin mining industry.  Frankly, I don't believe the whole "no chance of ROI," unless Waldo decides to shut the miners off long before the electricity costs more than the coin.

P.S.
Would you do me, and those of us who want to stay, a favor?  Please encourage Waldo to let those who want to stay, stay.  I, and others, have asked if he would refund some of the machines, and let the rest go into production.  But he won't even answer that request.  This is so stressful for me, because people I don't know, and with whom I politely disagree, are trying to make an adverse decision that doesn't even need to affect me.  I want you to get what you want; but I don't want to get f****d out of my participation in the network by the speculators.

Please help Waldo do the right thing for all of his shareholders, not just those who want out.

Perfectly fair.  Thanks for the thoughtful response.

And yet the posts in this very thread, counting the number of shares, are 77% stay the course. 

34 shares plus "a few" and one unknown said "Stay," while 10 shares and two unknowns said "refund."

Waldo, you seem pretty biased toward a refund.  What's going on?

So, two questions:

1) Are you, in fact, trying to convince us to ask for a refund?

2) Why must this be all-or-nothing?  You ordered these in separate orders, so you can ask for refunds on separate orders, yes?  When you have enough "refund" shares to equal the last order you placed, get it refunded.  Move everyone else into the vacated shares and move on.

If you want out, electricity costs me about 40% of the rate you've posted.  If you want out, I'm confident we can find someone else to collect the management fee and continue to support the bitcoin network...  Let's work together on this.  I'm willing to help, and I don't want to reduce my bitcoin earning potential to zero just because the USD/Bitcoin price has fallen and a few people are impatient.

Undef

P.S. The original statement, "we haven't heard anything from KNC," is no longer true.  We now know exactly where they are in the process, and they are exactly on schedule.  What is the motivation for refunds now?

Not to mention that nothing has changed since we ordered.  They promised, "Shipment begins in Q1/Q2 of 2014" and it is still Q1 of 2014.  It's not even Q2 yet.  Nothing has changed, except a few vocal people getting a case of buyers' remorse.

If KNC ends up missing the Q2 promise, with no offer to make it up to us, then we'll talk.  Until then, we're getting exactly what we expected--and paid for.  It is the height of unreasonability to say, "We haven't heard anything, so that must mean the worst has happened."  Take a deep breath, folks.

14 shares:
Stay the Course.  I want a miner working for me, not a few coins to sit in my wallet.

Waldo, have you considered moving people around among the miner orders so the few who want to bail can get out (refunding the last miner(s) ordered), while the rest of us just move up in the "order queue?"

1.

Three shares, please.  TxID: ced2edacbb6caeab033a88cbd50aa37faf0715361966efdaabdf3b2bbbd84d04

As with my other shares in the Q1 buys, please use 1BtbJBNheHq5kQdMCdtEMcWN15crqP5XBn for the receiving address.

Thanks!

PM sent for 8 shares.

So far, 100% of my experiences with both BitFunder and WeExchange have been negative.

I have open support tickets (one with each site) that have been open for three weeks without even a comment.  My coin is lost, and the will not even reply to my help requests.

BitFunder and WeExchange are NOT trustworthy sites.

Please, please, find a better platform.  BitFunder is simply too amateur/rinky-dink/unprofessional to trust with our money.  Thankfully, I had you set up my KNC buy to pay directly.  If you list with bitfunder, I will sadly pass.  While I would love to work with you more, I cannot trust the sites you ask me to use, so I cannot trust your future business, either. :-(

We have a long list of blocks in the "Strange Blocks" list on blockchain: https://blockchain.info/strange-transactions.  That list goes back to late May, and a cursory glance suggests every one of p2pool's blocks appears there.

It looks like one of us isn't getting paid 

Since this is always at the bottom of each transaction list:


Does that mean 1Kz5Q is the one not getting paid?  Are those coins redistributed among the miners (I'm not sure they could be), or just lost?

Should we worry about this at all?

Six shares, please.

TxID: 7b3f61e7f67fc54bdab21ac40ba2429bb761cf9fb082d9d5a9d5fe7f1c0832e0

Begin signed message
----
There are five sending addresses in TxID 7b3f61e7f67fc54bdab21ac40ba2429bb761cf9fb082d9d5a9d5fe7f1c0832e0

The first is 1N2RSVV...  For this miner's payout, coud I use this address?

1MLdPqfpDZbcB46rZbVd64pCFqExofFPn9

Thanks!
----
Signature: H7LCCowbp2WE9vJYCeIaLUx/cx/J8bcahYq7N/E+70Pwn7cdGOmXu23lbn7k50Ol8ykY345UoR1c7V4VngRWvmA=

(Edit: typoed the first address in the Tx...)

Undef - greetings, all.

Color me confused.  In the "normal" financial world, banks earn interest when they loan out depositors' money.  They then return a small (tiny) fraction of that back to the depositors.

What could bitcoinmax possibly be doing with deposited bitcoins that would earn a staggering 6.9% per week?  Do people actually borrow bitcoins short term and pay 10% or so each week for the privilege?  Why would they do that?

Not exactly relevant, but I just finished a crossfire install and had a bear of a time getting them both to run.  In my case, I had an overloaded power rail preventing good power from reaching one card.

Just to be sure water is wet and gravity still works: are you sure you are not having power issues?  Heat issues?  You're not overclocking yet, right?

Probably going with bit-pay or paysius, but I plan to add bitcoin as a payment option soon.

Greetings all,

I'm new to litecoin mining, and would like to use p2pmining.com for litecoin as well as bitcoins.  My miner seems to be chugging along nicely, but nothing appears on the current miners tab.

Anyone in Newbies aware of an issue/fix on p2pmining.com for litecoins?