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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin 20MB Fork
by
VectorChief
on 08/02/2015, 22:30:50 UTC
To anybody who thinks maybe they weren't being monitored before my outburst above and are being monitored now?  

That's crap.

There is absolutely no way this forum is not being closely monitored.  I presume that everyone participating here, including those participating via Tor, are fully aware (or at least should be aware) that this is true.  My 'educational' post above changes nothing.  

Cryddit

You mean, all these years of typing here they always knew it was me!?!?!?
Sigh... I should have picked nicer words and watched my tone, but you know what?
When you feel lonely sometimes, you can always smile at your phone's camera and know that somebody out there knows about you, cares about you, and maybe just maybe even smiles back! Smiley

We should all know that we're never alone and those hard-drives far far away are patiently collecting information about our entire lives making us a part of what can be called a digital blueprint of humanity, even when we're gone.


Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Making PoW usefull
by
VectorChief
on 06/02/2015, 00:55:43 UTC
So, you're trying to reinvent limits? Nice, but you're some centuries late in that.

Yes, the singularity of 1/x can be "removed", even on the complex plane if you add an infinity point to make it a sphere, it becomes a simple reflection
Now Riemann's function is a wee bit more difficult Wink


Code:
( ∀𝑥 𝑥 ∈ (−0⁺, 0⁺) )  ⇒  ( −0 ± 𝑥 = {−𝑥, 𝑥} ) ∧ ( 0 ± 𝑥 = {0⁻ + 𝑥, 0⁺ − 𝑥} )

It is not “an infinity point” (coric), for such a point would not accomodate conventional mathematics’ “hyperreal numbers.” Instead, it is an origin—one that has been missed sorely.

Earth’s set of all real numbers is, essentially, a Möbius strip fashioned from a line where one surface extends from −0⁻ to  0⁻, the other from −0⁺ to 0⁺, and all “edges” are retained.

An interesting fact is that the Möbius strip and the Torus are topologically related.

Quote
Topologically, the Möbius strip can be defined as the square [0, 1] × [0, 1] with its top and bottom sides identified by the relation (x, 0) ~ (1 − x, 1) for 0 ≤ x ≤ 1, as in the diagram on the right.

A less used presentation of the Möbius strip is as the topological quotient of a torus.[7] A torus can be constructed as the square [0, 1] × [0, 1] with the edges identified as (0, y) ~ (1, y) (glue left to right) and (x, 0) ~ (x, 1) (glue bottom to top). If one then also identified (x, y) ~ (y, x), then one obtains the Möbius strip. The diagonal of the square (the points (x, x) where both coordinates agree) becomes the boundary of the Möbius strip, and carries an orbifold structure, which geometrically corresponds to "reflection" – geodesics (straight lines) in the Möbius strip reflect off the edge back into the strip.

The Möbius ladder might help demonstrate this a bit better.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Moebius-ladder-16-animated.svg

Which brings us to the Hopf fibration, that's where the fundamental existential "twist" is hidden. Smiley

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/ba/Hopfkeyrings.jpg/250px-Hopfkeyrings.jpg

A couple more pages and we will finally be getting to the point of making PoW useful! Grin
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Making PoW usefull
by
VectorChief
on 05/02/2015, 19:45:13 UTC
Quote from: Stover, Christopher. “Limit.” From MathWorld—A Wolfram Web Resource, created by Eric W. Weisstein. Inc. link=http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Limit.html

So, the existence [of the limit] would be equivalent of saying "as above, so below", which is a realization that "now" is the only time and "here" is the only place [in all of existence]. Smiley

Quote
The significance of this phrase is that it is believed to hold the key to all mysteries. All systems of magic are claimed to function by this formula. "'That which is above is the same as that which is below'...Macrocosmos is the same as microcosmos. The universe is the same as God, God is the same as man, man is the same as the cell, the cell is the same as the atom, the atom is the same as...and so on, ad infinitum."

Code:
... ⇒  ( −0⁻ < −0⁺ )
Code:
...  ⇒  ( 0⁻ < 0⁺ )

This would then be "as within, so without", which means that Earth's "nought" and Earth's "zero" are one and the same, but neither actually exists (thus strict inequality) because it's the hole in The Torus?

Quote
Gnosis is the concept... That knowledge of self is knowledge of the principle that originated you.

Quote from: John V. link=https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090605105517AAMEzct
The quote is one of the seven principles of Hermeticism. Briefly, it tells us that things which appear to be very different have attributes that are actually quite similar. It also tells us that by studying one thing we can learn about something else.

Code:
...  ⇒  ( −1⁺ = −1⁻ )
Your “existential paradox” (VectorChief) arises from the notion that hyperreality’s nothing (here, nought) and everything (here, zero) “exist” (Stover) (i.e., are “elements of” the real).

So, if neither "nothing" nor "everything" exists, then only the "twist" is real. I guess "the Vortex of the Torus" would be an appropriate description of Earth's numerical system then.  Smiley
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: I'm loosing interest in bitcoin
by
VectorChief
on 04/02/2015, 00:48:10 UTC
I'm about to Loose interest too!

Not losing interest in Bitcoin though!   Cool


some times i mistake loose with lose!!!

sorry for all the non english mother tongue!!!

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Hahaha!
It reminds me of "This is gentlemen!" meme originated on reddit,
and one of the responses: "One mis-step for man, one giant leap for bull-kind." Grin
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Making PoW usefull
by
VectorChief
on 03/02/2015, 16:54:29 UTC
Code:
[( 0 ⋅ (−1 ÷ 0) = 0 ⋅ (−0⁻) = −1 ) ∧ ( 0 ⋅ (1 ÷ 0) = 0 ⋅ (−0⁺) = 1 ) ∧ ( −1 < 1 )]  ⇒  ( 0 ⋅ (−0⁻) < 0 ⋅ (−0⁺) )  ⇒  ( −0⁻ < −0⁺ )
Code:
[( (0 ⋅ (−1)) ÷ 0 = 0⁻ ÷ 0 = −1 ) ∧ ( (0 ⋅ 1) ÷ 0 = 0⁺ ÷ 0 = 1 ) ∧ ( −1 < 1 )]  ⇒  ( 0⁻ ÷ 0 < 0⁺ ÷ 0 )  ⇒  ( 0⁻ < 0⁺ )

Direction of approach can be used to determine what might otherwise be indeterminate.

I see. It's getting trickier down the road, as we are probably approaching some existential paradox here.

Singularity (one zero) leads to things being undefined (division by zero).
Duality (two zeroes) necessitates trinity (three zeroes) with neutral balance point between the two, or otherwise addition lacks commutativity (-1+1 != +1-1).

Maybe those "interdimensional" modifiers provide a way out of this, because placing two zeroes (or three for that matter) on a single numerical line would always necessitate something in between: (a+b)/2.

The way I look at Earth's numerical system (according to how you describe it) is more like a pair of gears or maybe even spirals placed next to each other, rather than a single numerical line. Maybe this approach doesn't require addition to be commutative, because the time arrow is always forward and every moment in existence is unique (see my signature) so there is no way to get the same perspective (number) by following two different paths (order of addition)?

I guess the following quotes by Kurt Vonnegut would be appropriate here:

"Everything is Nothing with a twist."

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/0f/24/16/0f2416cafb8738b50ab815863360a0d0.jpg

"So it goes."
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Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: 'Bitcoin Elite' to Gather on Secret Island for Bilderberg-Style Retreat
by
VectorChief
on 03/02/2015, 15:04:46 UTC
So it begins... PoWers that BTC, lol Grin


http://media.coindesk.com/2015/02/Screen-Shot-2015-02-02-at-12.34.15-PM.png
                                                 such elitist, wow

It's good that Doge managed to sneak through, we will know all the secrets anyway! Smiley
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: I'm loosing interest in bitcoin
by
VectorChief
on 02/02/2015, 20:37:18 UTC
are there any positive things about bitcoin that are currently happening now?

Bitcoin is the positive thing that is happening!
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Will government stop Bitcoin?
by
VectorChief
on 02/02/2015, 20:20:41 UTC
Governments are supposed to represent people. Bitcoin is how people roll these days. What humanity have learnt cannot be unlearnt. Blockchain DNA is proliferating!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPR3GlpQQJA
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Making PoW usefull
by
VectorChief
on 01/02/2015, 02:04:32 UTC
Also what would be the result of -1+1? Which of those inner zeroes?


Code:
[( −1 − (−1) = −1 + 1 = −0⁻ ) ∧ ( 1 + (−1) = 1 − 1 = −0⁺ )]  ⇔  [( −0 = −0⁻ ∧ −0⁺ ) ∧ ( −0⁻ < −0⁺ )]

In the first cases, one approaches nought from the positive direction. In the last cases, one approaches nought from the negative direction.

The answer to -1+1 that I held in mind was −0⁻ + −0⁺, which would not be reducible further in Earth's numerical system, but would represent zero under conventional mathematics. This makes addition commutative:

−0⁻ + −0⁺ = −0⁺ + −0⁻ = −0  <-  not on the axis, but rather an imaginary bridge?

When it comes to subtraction, we get the following:

−0⁻ - −0⁺ = −0⁻ + −0⁻ = −0⁻
−0⁺ - −0⁻ = −0⁺ + −0⁺ = −0⁺

Subtracting polarized nought from non-polarized nought would destroy the bridge resulting in polarized nought of opposite sign. Adding it would be equivalent to subtracting with sign inverted. Subtracting polarized nought from itself should reestablish the bridge resulting in non-polarized nought.

This in fact adds a three-state modifier to all non-zero numbers as well, something that conventional mathematics didn't have due to its zero being singular (thus adding/subtracting it had no effect). It should look like this:

1 + −0⁻ = 1⁻
1 + −0⁺ = 1⁺
1 + −0  = 1

Which reminds me of the (past, present, future) modifiers used in conjunction with numbers in the new type of numerology (described here, scroll all the way down to Numerology).

Quote
These interdimensional three have no energy of their own. They must have the other numbers to function. This also makes them catalytic. It also places them in a circle with the others instead of a line or a column. Some will understand this, and some will not. If you had the numbers one to nine in a column-going down a page that you were looking at, think of the other three as hovering above the column. This is the best we can do to explain something that's out of your normal 4D conception.


In your example: -1+1 = −0⁻ < −0⁺ = +1-1  =>  -1+1 < +1-1
Does Earth's addition commute? Is strict inequality due to implied modifiers?

PS: Also you might have mixed the terms positive and negative in your description.
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Topic OP
We Are From The Future
by
VectorChief
on 29/01/2015, 00:30:33 UTC
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Making PoW usefull
by
VectorChief
on 28/01/2015, 01:42:37 UTC

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/equations/e/NumberedEquation5.gif

If a limit of a transcendental number should be converted to Earth’s numerical system, the both should equal each other without exception.

You got me intrigued with Earth's numerical system. The name sounds just about right and it is hidden under layers upon layers of onion router, exactly like those zeroes loop around the infinity. Smiley

I will look into that.
Does it shake the foundations of math so badly that it gets banned if published in the open?

Also what would be the result of -1+1? Which of those inner zeroes?
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 28/01/2015, 00:58:46 UTC
I like this little guy! He has some leadership skills on him too. Grin

Sometimes I wonder, what would this place be if there were some sort of minimal intelligence check...

We would end up in a perfect world with "designer babies" and then... Gattaca! Cheesy
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 22:03:04 UTC
There is no need for discussion. There is only a need to note: we have no consensus on it and it's on you to accept that. Gavincoin can still be launched in altsection.

There have been enough arguments listed here why it's a bad idea at the current time. People not recognizing it are the problem and useless individuals to interact with.

Forking Bitcoin into Gavincoin has been declined. Deal with it.

Um... waaat?

I like this little guy! He has some leadership skills on him too. Grin

It is really difficult to fix engineering problem and social media problem but it's really easy to ignore.I think soon they will fix it.

Recognizing and fixing the problems is exactly what we need to learn how to do and get very good at, if we're to make it into space. With Bitcoin we will!

http://www.millybee.com/images/rocket1.gif
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 18:29:57 UTC


Can we trade a little security for wider adoption? Would wider adoption make it more valuable? Nobody knows.

How much will the value of bitcoin drop when people realize it can never scale? Nobody knows.


You aren't sacrificing wider adoption of Bitcoin. You are sacrificing wider on chain adoption of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin can scale perfectly well with off chain transactions. History has shown us this when the "off-chain US dollar" was backed by "on-chain gold."

Your trading a little bit of Bitcoin security for adoption is akin to making the gold more easy to counterfeit.

You are suggesting to use divide-and-conquer tactic and back it with historical facts demonstrating that it worked perfectly well for the conquerors. I suggest we keep united and seek for solutions together. Bitcoin is here to stir the pot and wake people up. Ding!

It worked for the conquerors because they stole all of the "on-chain bitcoins". FDR made it illegal for citizens to own gold in 1933 with Executive Order 6102. This can't be done with today's bitcoins because of the transparent distributed digital ledger. Your proposals weaken security and makes bitcoin confiscation more likely.

First of all, the power players of today are not as united as we think they are. It means that for as long as we, the people, are not divided (into sub-chains), confiscation of Bitcoin's mining power locally would not result in a complete shutdown of the network. It would need to be a concerted effort and apparently not all the major participants in the geo-politics arena are interested in this.

Secondly, the power players of today might see Bitcoin as a solution to the problems of the world, which are otherwise hard to reach consensus on. The nature of PoW is such, that power players will be engaging at some point one way or another. I mean, you won't run away with your mining farm too far. The idea is then to let them embrace the rules of the game, and make the game more transparent than it used to be.
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Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 17:58:17 UTC


Can we trade a little security for wider adoption? Would wider adoption make it more valuable? Nobody knows.

How much will the value of bitcoin drop when people realize it can never scale? Nobody knows.


You aren't sacrificing wider adoption of Bitcoin. You are sacrificing wider on chain adoption of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin can scale perfectly well with off chain transactions. History has shown us this when the "off-chain US dollar" was backed by "on-chain gold."

Your trading a little bit of Bitcoin security for adoption is akin to making the gold more easy to counterfeit.

You are suggesting to use divide-and-conquer tactic and back it with historical facts demonstrating that it worked perfectly well for the conquerors. I suggest we keep united and seek for solutions together. Bitcoin is here to stir the pot and wake people up. Ding!
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 17:45:13 UTC
There are only people: people I trust, and people that I don't trust. And I don't trust Gavin.
Open source. We don't need your trust. Thanks anyway.

You are ridiculously foolish to say such a thing. The trust is not towards a black box of unknown contents. Public code is written by people, and verified by people. If there is a disagreement among developers, leading to a fork in a project, users will have to trust one over another. It is not possible to remove trust from a system, and you haven't found some magical replacement for hierarchy.

Fiat was once backed with gold, you know how that turned out.

Yeah, they took all the gold. Let's see them take all the bitcoin.

The evolution and proliferation of blockchain DNA is what will turn "them" into "us". The Earth will be healed and ready for the next frontier. The galaxy is waiting! Cool
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 17:17:59 UTC
Growing adoption doesn't mean we need to scale beyond 1MB. Certainly not at this point in time.
Not every coffee purchase needs to be in the blockchain. I doubt bitcoin can support microtransactions anyway, not even with gavin's proposals.
I think many people support the idea of bitcoin as a store of value and want to cut the third party risk of the current monetary system.
Think gold - you buy an ounce, or 1/10ounce. What's the point of paying with gold for a coffee? Only if gold could be sent over the internet....

I understand the other side of things - that it would be nice to have bitcoin supporting even micropayments but lets slow down and think it over first. I mean those changes suggested are still not a final solution to all bitcoin flaws and haven't even touched on more important things like mining centralization. It will make the system even more centralized - there is no doubt about that.

I guess people with the 'Fork it hard' attitude don't hold enough stake or are simply arrogant to the dangers of a hard fork.

Value is a moving target.
The less people use something the less valuable it becomes.

I don't think that off-chain/side-chain stuff is the right approach, it introduces backing. It is divide-and-conquer tactics at its best. Fiat was once backed with gold, you know how that turned out. At some point people will realize: "hmm, if i can buy food with these centralized off-chain coins, why do I need those bitcoins anyway?"

I'm not saying "let's change all the rules", but we need to figure out what the rules are and what the game is. In my recent discussions on the forum I've come to believe that money is a dynamic essence. You need to keep up with the flow in order to gain and even maintain value. If Bitcoin doesn't move it will be replaced.
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 16:48:45 UTC

However, the block size limit, the tx fees structure and even the infamous 21m limit is where it gets interesting. These things are actually inter-related and not completely orthogonal. If it happens that fees are not able to provide enough incentives in the future to keep the network secure, then introduction of permanent limited inflation would be one of the options on the table, no matter how unpopular it might sound today.

Incredible.. "increasing block size is bad for fees, so we might have to also increase the block reward." How much bitcoin do you even have? Do you think waxing philosophical on things you have no business discussing is a suitable replacement for financial investment? It's easy to say "change all the rules" when you don't have any skin in the game. I'd like to see someone with greater than 10`000 BTC come forward and demand a rules change, not because it would be justified, but because at least they have some business making the demand. The rest of you can buzz off. Do you think I'm worried that you'll take your penny transactions to another scamcoin? I'm not. Good riddance.

I knew it was gonna be controversial, but someone needed to throw that one into the discussion. Bitcoin gains its value not only from the idea of its limited supply, but also from growing adoption. People forget that. If another coin gets more traction while Bitcoin loses momentum it got from its first-mover advantage, then it will have to compete on mere technicalities, which are easy to replicate due to its open-source nature.

Thus Bitcoin needs to keep pace with the market development in order to stay relevant. The fact that PoW-secured blockchain can scale beyond 1Mb per block is not a rocket science. The question is - will it be Bitcoin or something else? If it's something else, what makes you think that Bitcoin will maintain its value?
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Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 14:21:01 UTC

In that regard being disinflationary is less fundamental than being protected by competition. But I'm not saying that we have to sacrifice the former in order to maintain the latter, just that it is the last resort option in case we couldn't come up with more creative solutions, which I'm sure we will Smiley.

We disagree with priorities , but agreeing that both are extremely important is good enough Smiley

Agreeing on increasing the block size limit is a higher priority than anything else at this point and the rest of the stuff is much further into the future anyway, so we'll get to that in time.

Adaptability to changing environment might be crucial for success of the system, the competition isn't asleep either, let the leanest and meanest honeybadger win! Evolutionists are gonna like this one Grin.
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Fork off
by
VectorChief
on 27/01/2015, 14:06:33 UTC
I previously considered an option that the network would be secured by competition for control (even with potential monetary losses), but was confronted with a notion that it was not economical. So I kept thinking.

There are many other ways to secure the network , like not exclusively relying on the PoW algo, but adding others which have different security considerations , benefits and weaknesses to PoW. This would make bitcoin more robust and secure. Another possibility is that nothing needs to be done because BTC grows so much that valuation alone stays ahead of disinflation or the laws of economics and thermodynamics force miners to make consumable heating devices to pay for security.(solving the centralization concerns as well)

Other possibilities of securing the network include using sidechains which perform useful tasks like folding at home, or cracking codes, selling cloud storage, ect... all give subsidies with tx fees to the mainchain which provides security to them.

Other possibilities is that volume alone can provide network security - 500k a block x 1 penny per transaction = 5k usd a block in security

We don't need to throw away our core principles so quickly without trying creative solutions to solve these problems.

I would consider the idea of network security stemming from activity and competition as the most fundamental principle of Bitcoin, which separates it from any other security models achieved by decree or elements thereof.

I agree that there are more secure models requiring less energy, but if it comes at a cost of having certain (groups of) people holding the keys, then we have stepped on a slippery slope.

In that regard being disinflationary is less fundamental than being protected by competition. But I'm not saying that we have to sacrifice the former in order to maintain the latter, just that it is the last resort option in case we couldn't come up with more creative solutions, which I'm sure we will Smiley.