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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Gavin will visit the CIA
by
abstraction
on 29/04/2011, 02:33:03 UTC
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin = bullshit grinder
by
abstraction
on 28/04/2011, 10:31:40 UTC


Does this come in the 3 phase variety? I'm an Electrical Engineer.

I have an idea that takes manure and labor as inputs and converts it to fertilizer, methane trapped in solid form, and any spare electricity left over as outputs. Shall I share?
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: 04.26.11 - PLATO's Bitcoin Presentation for UAH - Help me edit for the next hour
by
abstraction
on 28/04/2011, 10:20:54 UTC
I've been crawling out of your allegorical cave since I was thrust into it at age 6 and this is what I have so far:

People understand passion and they understand fear. Practice speaking from the heart in front of a mirror about your passion and why Bitcoin. When you can't find the right words to describe something as you speak from the heart, realize that and accept it. That ignorance is what you need to solve and you can only discover the ignorance by admitting you don't know something.

How is your journey made possible?
Who contributed?
What is their legacy?
Why do they believe in it?
What does Bitcoin mean to you?

Only speak what you know. You don't KNOW the people you speak to yet, so don't force a decision on them. They will make the right decision for themselves when they are ready to.
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: BitCon! When and Where?
by
abstraction
on 26/04/2011, 21:42:28 UTC
My guess is that London is the most optimal place in the world in terms of average air/train fare paid by conference visitor.

Why not simultaneous conventions on different continents? With video feed to see everybody else.
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Re: BitCon! When and Where?
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 21:39:15 UTC
So who is interested in a global Bitcoin Conference (BitCon)? I noticed a few local meetups, but I think sooner or later, a global meetup will occur. When should it be? Where should it be?

I think it should be in middle America or the West coast so Plato doesn't have to drive all the way back to NYC to attend.

i think we should try to avoid the use of the word BitCon.

I agree.

What: BitCan or BitPro (name to be determined)
Who: Anybody, global or local
Where: San Luis Obispo, CA (SLO)
When: Whenever Plato comes through California
Why:
  • Plato wants to travel along the Pacific Coast Highway (PCH)
  • The PCH comes through SLO
  • There are beaches only 10-15 minutes away
  • The SLO area is wine country with several microclimates in the area
  • There are plenty of mountains to hike
  • There are bike trails to ride
  • There are disc golf courses in some of the parks
  • There is plenty of lodging due to the fact that SLO is a college town and parents swarm on certain weekends, so it can handle conventions, if you plan it right
  • It has several microbreweries in the area, a homebrew culture in town (DIY attitude), and Avila hosts the California Festival of Beers every year on the last weekend of May put on by the charity http://www.hospiceslo.org/
  • The people here are friendly (it's a tourist town) Oprah has my back on this one
  • The SLO Experiment
  • There is an airport if you want to fly in, or, it's about a 3-4 hour drive from either San Francisco or Los Angeles if you take the 101, or, take your time traveling up or down the PCH
  • On Thursday nights from 6-9pm, the main street downtown closes off to traffic and the World Famous Farmer's Market happens. All sorts of organic food, BBQ, music, entertainment, free bike valet, free parking at meters around town after 6pm
  • If it happens on the first Thursday of the month, you can participate in the Bike Happening where bike enthusiasts get all dressed up and bring out their fancy rides to show off around downtown at 9:30pm after the Farmer's Market closes down. And after the Bike Happening ends, all those interested go to watch or participate in the Bike Sumo tournament where two riders square off and try to knock the other one off. Two men enter, one man leaves - Thunderdome style
  • The reason Vegas is great for conventions is because there is lots to DO when not at the convention itself. SLO has all the legal fun, so let's have a legally fun Bitcoin Block(chain) Party. The SLOcals will appreciate the tourism boom (so long as it's a positive experience)
  • I don't see anyone else in this thread putting up a better itemized solution yet so  Tongue


How: Get the word out about the Bitcoin Block(chain) Party happening in SLO! The SLOcals will see a bunch of bright, enthusiastic people coming into town with new ideas about how to tackle economic problems and create jobs. They're already used to it with the students that go to Cal Poly. Who doesn't want to come to this party?!
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: The Bitcoin Show on OnlyOneTV.com
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 11:55:32 UTC
Something weird has happened.
Yesterday, someone came over to buy some Bitcoins.  We accepted his cash and sent him his Bitcoins.   Ed sent them by making a Withdrawal from his own MtGox account TO this person's Bitcoin address.  
Unfortunately, this young man sat here with his laptop and his Bitcoin client open... and they never showed up.
Hours Later, they still hadn't shown up.
I emailed MtGox.   MtGox promptly replied showing me that the transaction IS IN the block chain.  
However.... still no sign of it in the Bitcoin client.
We verified the Bitcoin address from his Bitcoin client app and it matches perfectly.
How could this happen?


Did he have the whole block chain downloaded when you checked both times?

It's not very intuitive to tell if I have them all at the moment. A visual progress bar that showed me how many I had out of how many the community agrees to being the current total would certainly help me out intuitively. When I launch the client on my Mac, the icon bounces up and down for a while without displaying the GUI. Then, the number of blocks shown in the status bar at the bottom keeps going up for a while and I have no idea when it is supposed to stop. It's a bit frustrating as an end user to not have some sort of estimation indicating the total number in existence. I know that my received transactions only show up when I have the appropriate block downloaded. So I have to wait. Without know when. Which sucks.

I think there is a tool to verify their claim that the transaction actually is in the block chain, but I forgot the name of it. I'm sure someone else remembers, though.

"Never say never."
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: The Bitcoin Show on OnlyOneTV.com
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 11:36:52 UTC
After a recent radio interview, I received a phone call from a guy in brazil who said he had bought bitcoin for half a cent each.

Love Leo Laporte.... but OnlyOneTV plans to be much larger that TWiT.  Smiley

Someone proposed an idea to me today.  The idea was intended as a way to solve the problem of the volatile value of a bitcoin ...for merchants who just want a US dollar. The idea is a Bitdollar.  A new separate network, forked off of the Bitcoin code... but one where the value is locked in and tied to the USD.  

I see lots of problems with this idea.  What about you?   Thoughts about this idea?



Anything resembling the name "dollar" will get shot down in the US. They don't want people to confuse it for FRN dollars.

Merchants don't want a "US dollar" in the literal sense. They just want a unit of measurement of value that's relatively reliable over time, like a measuring stick that doesn't change its length. If you peg your fork to the FRN dollar, it will experience the same fate as the FRN dollar, whatever that fate may be. You would be doing the merchants you talked to a disservice if you offer them anything that depreciates in value over time. Offering them the same thing as a FRN dollar and giving it a different literal name isn't much of a real solution since the only thing different is the name.

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"
and phonetically
"Arrows by any other name would pierce as sharp"
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Board Trading Discussion
Re: Trading bots
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 07:36:54 UTC
Hey, I'm interested in making a bot as well.  I've been wanting to get my feet wet in a programming language, but I'm just starting out.  As far as resources go, do you guys have any basic info that would get me started on that long journey? I think I'd like to work in java, but I'm not sure what the pros and cons of any specific language are

I found that Python is pretty easy to pick up. It lets you keep your code simple if you know how to do it right. It also makes it easier for other people to read so they understand what you are trying to do with it - if your purpose is to make something open source to get help with it.

I'm on Chapter 10 of this book. http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/index.html

"I got 99 problems, but a programming language ain't one."

Languages aren't that important.... knowing programming methods and common patterns are more important.  If you know them, you can pick up any language within a few weeks of using it.

Different languages have different uses based on the way they were made. The methods and common patterns are what are more important, I agree. It's just easier to learn the concept of a programming language when it comes with a nice instruction manual. I've taken classes at different schools to "learn" different languages (C, C++, Java), but it has been the easiest course of action for me to learn at my own rate with a good tool. I'm attracted to PHP, Python, JQuery (based on JavaScript), and MySQL at this point in time given the tools I have encountered along the way. If skittixch wants to tackle Java in the long run, more power to him (assumed "him" based off his pixelated avatar). I was offering him a set of training wheels to get up on the bike and ride in the first place, based on my limited amount of knowledge. It seemed to me like he was weighing his options, window shopping for a programming language until he finds the right one for him.

On this topic of programming languages, I would love to see a Bitcoin based language develop naturally. I have an idea for one, but I don't have the skills to design/develop it yet.


Good points (although I've seen _a_lot_ of horrid PHP code, but it can be done well).  Python would indeed be one of many good choices for a bot, and probably the lowest barrier to entry choice for a fledgling programmer.

Hmm... maybe it would be a good idea to post different tutorials for different programming languages on witcoin. Then, let the community upvote the good ones to help out the beginners who want to learn.

A Bitcoin solution to a practical problem, yes?
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Board Trading Discussion
Re: Trading bots
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 07:24:47 UTC
Hey, I'm interested in making a bot as well.  I've been wanting to get my feet wet in a programming language, but I'm just starting out.  As far as resources go, do you guys have any basic info that would get me started on that long journey? I think I'd like to work in java, but I'm not sure what the pros and cons of any specific language are

I found that Python is pretty easy to pick up. It lets you keep your code simple if you know how to do it right. It also makes it easier for other people to read so they understand what you are trying to do with it - if your purpose is to make something open source to get help with it.

I'm on Chapter 10 of this book. http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/index.html

"I got 99 problems, but a programming language ain't one."

Languages aren't that important.... knowing programming methods and common patterns are more important.  If you know them, you can pick up any language within a few weeks of using it.

Different languages have different uses based on the way they were made. The methods and common patterns are what are more important, I agree. It's just easier to learn the concept of a programming language when it comes with a nice instruction manual. I've taken classes at different schools to "learn" different languages (C, C++, Java), but it has been the easiest course of action for me to learn at my own rate with a good tool. I'm attracted to PHP, Python, JQuery (based on JavaScript), and MySQL at this point in time given the tools I have encountered along the way. If skittixch wants to tackle Java in the long run, more power to him (assumed "him" based off his pixelated avatar). I was offering him a set of training wheels to get up on the bike and ride in the first place, based on my limited amount of knowledge. It seemed to me like he was weighing his options, window shopping for a programming language until he finds the right one for him.

On this topic of programming languages, I would love to see a Bitcoin based language develop naturally. I have an idea for one, but I don't have the skills to design/develop it yet.
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Board Trading Discussion
Re: Courier Network (For real)
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 06:30:26 UTC
I dunno... That seems to be going even more complicated. Cables (getting tangled in crap), a second recovery trip (more overhead), possible theft of expensive package containers...

exactly.  Start small.  We can think about all sorts of new technology in time...who knows, we might vast arrays of solar powered personal helicopter drones at some point in this crazy future....for now though, I say we reel it back in and try to come up with a solution using our primitive cryptography and blood/sweat

That's fine and dandy, but this thread is about a robotic courier network.

It seems to me that most people here in this thread are trying to model the robotic courier network (RCN? RoCoN? RoCoNe? RoCoNet?) after something that already exists - humans. So why not figure out how humans do it most efficiently and justly first?

Robot see, robot do. (So do it right the first time)

I'm going to start a new thread for those who want to explore the human courier network (HCN? HuCoN? HuCoNe? HuCoNet?).
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Re: Trading bots
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 06:02:37 UTC
Hey, I'm interested in making a bot as well.  I've been wanting to get my feet wet in a programming language, but I'm just starting out.  As far as resources go, do you guys have any basic info that would get me started on that long journey? I think I'd like to work in java, but I'm not sure what the pros and cons of any specific language are

I found that Python is pretty easy to pick up. It lets you keep your code simple if you know how to do it right. It also makes it easier for other people to read so they understand what you are trying to do with it - if your purpose is to make something open source to get help with it.

I'm on Chapter 10 of this book. http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/index.html

"I got 99 problems, but a programming language ain't one."
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 05:46:03 UTC

Oh, thank god that was not one of those damn annoying "who is john galt" videos...

Haha, hopefully the point got through, even though it's something totally unrelated superficially.
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Re: Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 05:08:05 UTC
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Re: Bootstrapping a local economy
by
abstraction
on 25/04/2011, 02:02:28 UTC
I was thinking maybe we could build free websites to business like this Deli that are willing to accept bitcoin.

We could have something like bitbusiness.com/yourBusiness (just made up this name) where we could host these websites.
In the same "bitbusiness" (or whatever name we choose) we could help people tracking these places.

I would go to a pretty far place only because it accepts bitcoin! All we have to do is convince business owners of this.

fetokun,

i'd like to take u up on that one.  i have an existing out of date website that needs a severe facelift.  if you'd be willing to help me email me at idoc@lazer.pro using pgp. my key is at hkp://keys.gnupg.net.  look for Cydoc.

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All we have to do is convince business owners of this.
If you (take the risk to) build it (and build it right), they will come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTsQ9qePrQ
(But who are the businesses that come?)
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Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: The Bitcoin Show on OnlyOneTV.com
by
abstraction
on 17/04/2011, 12:36:06 UTC
1) In your interactions with people, what sales pitch has worked the best for you?

2) I'm finding some local charities with generally enthusiastic people who seem receptive to the idea of using Bitcoin to facilitate virtual charity credit (aka "digital karma"). Which types of charities do you recommend to start with?

Thank you.
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Re: Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
by
abstraction
on 17/04/2011, 12:25:28 UTC
Who is John Galt?

+42 (the answer...)

42 = 2 x 3 x 7 (well that's just prime)

duality x stability x morality?

Satoshi hopefully isn't Alexander Supertramp, a tragic hero.
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Re: Send this email to 3 Charity / Cause Sites per Day
by
abstraction
on 14/04/2011, 11:02:29 UTC
I found a charity that I would like to support in my town. It is the Kahlo Cultural Center. They just recently started operating and I was thinking they may be a receptive early adopter of Bitcoin.

Note: they are creativity-oriented. talking about "crypto-currency" will make their eyes glaze over. I plan to pitch Bitcoin to them as a "positive reward Karma system - you have to earn good Karma to give good Karma". I think they will understand that kind of language. Would anybody like to help me out using Bruce's format?

I need to point them to an easy to use Bitcoin wallet managing website. If I tell them to "download the client", they will receive it as "you want me to jump through what kind of hoop with what kind software program I know nothing about?". I feel uneasy pointing them to mybitcoin.com since they are not open source. Is there a good open source wallet management website out there? I will suggest to them that they create a tipit on YouTipIt, but they are not open source either, as far as I know.
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Re: Bootstrapping a local economy
by
abstraction
on 04/04/2011, 03:01:10 UTC
If they are willing to sell a service or product for bitcoins we can include them for sure!

This is how we understand it online, but the way they understand it is translated to "we are willing to pursue our hobbies, hopes, dreams, whatever and if we get congratulations, high fives, words of recognition or praise, tips in bitcoins for it, great!".

Help people figure out a practical way to do what they want to do and they will naturally see bitcoin as an informal (and then formal?) way to keep track of the "congratulations, high fives, words of recognition or praise".
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Re: How long until governments outlaw bitcoin usage?
by
abstraction
on 04/04/2011, 01:59:24 UTC
The threat of prosecution will certainly dampen the value, as well as the rate of spread, of Bitcoin; but will ultimately fail to destroy it.  Politicos aren't stupid, they look at these kind of things deeply before acting.  If they attempt it, they would have to know that it's a stall tactic.

http://www.bitterwallet.com/what-does-the-ip-in-ip-address-stand-for-ask-stephen-timms/27968

They know nothing about what they imagine they can control.

This evokes the image of a blind Polyphemus chasing after Odysseus. Things would have gone much smoother for Odysseus if he had not announced his identity to Polyphemus...

Interesting  Smiley

Perhaps the bag of winds is the internet, and we're the soldiers thinking that it's a bag of gold? Scary.

They understood the potential energy of the bag of winds. They did not understand how to convert it to a useful kinetic energy. What was it about the soldiers that made them tragic heroes?
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Re: How long until governments outlaw bitcoin usage?
by
abstraction
on 01/04/2011, 17:56:54 UTC
It may seem that way, I'm sure.  But "education" has been surprisingly effective at it's original goals.  Horrance Mann is widely considered the "father" of the American education system, by both his supporters and critics.  Read what he said about the subject, and it will become bluntly obvious that the "education" system was never really intended to educate the children of the middle and lower classes in America, but to condition them.  The next obvious question then becomes, condition them for what?

You will not like the answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Underground_History_of_American_Education

I wasn't restricting my scope to American history. I was thinking of education in a philosophical sense - to pass on truths.

abstraction I see from your answers to few of my points that you did not understand what I wanted to say, but that is probably my fault. I apologize for my poor English.
I understood your English correctly. Our differences lie elsewhere.

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Politicians are just a bunch of jokers put there so you can think you have choice. You do not!
I have the choice to make up my own mind, and I do. If I can take what I know, create a logically sound message, and tailor the message in such away that it is intuitively understood by just about everybody, then I have mastered the art of persuasion and I have all the choice in the world. I understand this may sound silly to people who don't know me personally, but in meatspace, I'm learning crucial communication skills by forcing myself to converse with a wide variety of minds. I made a lot more errors in judgment before I started going around talking to people.

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As to people "explaining stuff" - all I wanted to say was that most knowledgeable people on a specific subject should be leading the way.
This may be where our greatest confusion comes from. I'm an extremely skeptical person. I try not to trust what anybody says (experts included) unless I understand conceptually what they are saying about something. In other words, determining who the "most knowledgeable people on a specific subject" requires me to understand the subject as well as they do by taking what they say and transforming the concept into some sort of paradigm that is already familiar to me. If I understand the paradigm, I can see where its strengths and weaknesses are relative to other related paradigms I know. If I bring up a "what if this plausible event happens?" question that the "knowledgeable" person did not consider before, then I really dig in on why they did not consider it. I have to translate between my paradigm and theirs to do this.

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Politicians or any other group do not have the means nor the capacity to comprehend everything.
We are a group as well, so in what ways are we blind? That is what I am trying to figure out.

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Education was marvelous when it was moving us forward in a quest to understand more. Now it is merely accumulation of knowledge and conditioning us to do some specific task without understanding why. Current system even punishes us for independent thinking.
Based on my experiences in life, I know I am very independent in my thinking.

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Everybody should get the same opportunity at succeeding, but that's a whole different discussion
Isn't this what free-market capitalism is?
I don't know what free-market capitalism is. My statement is an idea. It does not have to be boxed into some "free-market capitalism" term.[/quote]
I'm working from this definition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market except that I view it in what I consider the purest sense - no government at all. I think your idea and my term are compatible, but I'd like you to elaborate on why it is not if you believe it is not.

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As everything else in nature, it can evolve. Only us, humans, have the need to quantify everything. It helps us to comprehend and assign meaning to it for a specific period of time, but it also restricts it. If you study nature, you'll see that nothing is static - everything is moving and constantly evolving. So should our societies.
I understand this. I see change and I seek to understand both its function in the later state and what state induced it.

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I think I have heard this mentality before by some pretty bad dudes in history.
Yes, you may have heard this before. It is called cynicism.
I used to be cynical, but I found it limited my thoughts and I'm a free thinker.

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Emotions are what induce us to act
Yes, and it is a shame. In my opinion rational thought should be the one to induce action.
In my rationale, the complexity in emotion is one part of humanity that distinguishes itself from other species. You used the word "shame" to describe it. Why is it shameful? Shame is not an emotion I understand very well yet. I do know that when I do act rationally, I have a selfish desire to improve my quality of life. I know that the action both makes sense and feels good to carry out. That's why I do it. Both my thoughts and my feelings harmonize, or get in phase on a good plan of action, and then I act.

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You see abstraction, we don't agree on everything, but now we are having a civilized conversation and learning from each other without imposing our value systems on each other
I don't agree with this, yet. I purposefully imposed my value system explicitly so that it could be judged publicly so I could know where I am wrong. I need to know where I am wrong so I can eventually know where I am right. I responded this way to you originally because I sensed how strong your implicit value system is. I don't know what that system is yet, but I still sense it being imposed on me. I would like you to expose it publicly so I can understand it fully, if you don't mind doing that.