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This might affect you if you sell tangible products with your bitcoins.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/your-right-to-resell-your-own-stuff-is-in-peril-2012-10-04
thanks for the heads up!
I say there be a day of Boycott on MWN by everyone taking a moment and hitting "ignore" on his profile. This will force him to come in as a sock poppet but it will also help us know nobody is listening to him.
Re: Dare you to stare into the eyes of a bitcoin criminal....
How are you protecting the community??
I profile bitcoin criminals....
Re: Friends Of Fullerton : Election campaign accepting Bitcoins
The cops were wrong and deserve punishment to be sure.
I had two occasions of being approached by Thomas while in Fullerton. He was begging and I said sorry, I have nothing for you. Both times he responded with anger, vulgarity, and veiled threats as he walked away because he knew if he stayed he would have received a beat down. He was no innocent waif on the streets pining for a loving home, warm bed, and a meal.
I had two occasions of being approached by Thomas while in Fullerton. He was begging and I said sorry, I have nothing for you. Both times he responded with anger, vulgarity, and veiled threats as he walked away because he knew if he stayed he would have received a beat down. He was no innocent waif on the streets pining for a loving home, warm bed, and a meal.
I like some components of this idea. I have a simple way of actualising this in a fast manner.
At present in the community there are several Escrow businesses; like btcrow.com . So my idea is that these Escrow businesses "expand" their role and do the following: For persons wanting to start a new BTC business and who are lacking enough Trustwothyness due to the reason that they are very new, they would deposit an amount of their choosing into the Escrow business, and have this as a Public record. The more they deposit, the more Trustworthy they can be perceived by the community.
The new BTC business would launch, and advertise the fact that they are "registered depositors" at XYZ Escrow service. XYZ can get a percentage for playing this role from the deposit; they can also charge a fee for future arbitration.
If any client in the future has a serious issue with the business, they can claim against the deposit at the Escrow service; these issues will also be public record.
At present in the community there are several Escrow businesses; like btcrow.com . So my idea is that these Escrow businesses "expand" their role and do the following: For persons wanting to start a new BTC business and who are lacking enough Trustwothyness due to the reason that they are very new, they would deposit an amount of their choosing into the Escrow business, and have this as a Public record. The more they deposit, the more Trustworthy they can be perceived by the community.
The new BTC business would launch, and advertise the fact that they are "registered depositors" at XYZ Escrow service. XYZ can get a percentage for playing this role from the deposit; they can also charge a fee for future arbitration.
If any client in the future has a serious issue with the business, they can claim against the deposit at the Escrow service; these issues will also be public record.
Basically, what you said is exactly what I have in the works. You are spot on with your thinking.
Mybitcoin would have had ZERO problem forking over 100 BTC ...
Hence this just makes it more expensive to start up, not stop fraud.
Hence this just makes it more expensive to start up, not stop fraud.
It's at least something and that is 100 more bitcoins we all would have gotten back! actually the only bitcoins we would have gotten back since they never paid 50 percent like they said they would.
I'm sure this idea has been played about before here but to lazy to search around on here but what if there was some sort of Bitcoin Business Insurance? In other words, the bitcoin business front's a certain amount of bitcoins to insure he/she is serious about doing bitcoin business in this community. In other words, some new bitcoin company comes along and doesn't know how to "gain any trust" ( looks overwhelming) can at least rest assure anyone he does business with that he has enough coins to compensate them for whatever happens. So it would be transparent - a certain amount of coins for the public to see against their business - if they decide the run and there are people effected by this people can issue claims and have funds released. I don't know just trying to see how we can introduce more trustworthy business to our ecosystem!
obviously, by my handle here I'm interested in this stuff! haha
obviously, by my handle here I'm interested in this stuff! haha
I have been thinking about this a lot too. How to insure people's money when no one trusts each other. Bitcoin is a system that allows people to exchange money that don't need to trust each other.
Maybe a better way is to set up an exchange that allows bets by the community on the likelihood of some type of business failure (ie, wallet theft, business incompetence, or outright scams).
For example, lets say I put some money into Bitscalper, but I am hesitant because I don't trust them. I buy a bet on the website that says that Bitscalper will fail. There needs to be clear contractual agreement of what constitutes a win when the business fails.
Anyway, say I have 100 bitcoins in Bitscalper and I insure 0 to 100% of those bitcoins. A speculator bets that Bitscalper wills stay solvent so they take the bet.
The market needs to stay liquid enough so that if I close my Bitscalper account I can also sell back my bet to the market since I don't need it anymore.
People may not trust anyone else, but they sure like to speculate.
I do like the idea as you are right people love to speculate. Probably could bring that over to that bitcoin betting site that lets you bet on everything forget the name of it. You could still speculate if you wanted to "add" to the bitcoin business's deposit amount because you have confidence they will remain. Maybe in return , if they are there 6 months later you get the excat amount you put in 1 to 1 - so you add 10 btc to the 100 btc the business put up. In 6 months, you get 10 of that 100 btc for being right and the company has to front another 10 btc thus you start seeing a community rallying around the success of a company. Good thinking!
as someone said earlier in the thread "Trust No One" is the best policy
but when trust is something that must be extended - really the best metric we have for trust in the Bitcoin world right now (other than the otc system which is cumbersome for many users) is the way our forum has evolved into a reputation system.
to me if a bitcoin business has absolutely no real ties to a real person on this forum its a major red flag
(case in point - Bitscalper)
but when trust is something that must be extended - really the best metric we have for trust in the Bitcoin world right now (other than the otc system which is cumbersome for many users) is the way our forum has evolved into a reputation system.
to me if a bitcoin business has absolutely no real ties to a real person on this forum its a major red flag
(case in point - Bitscalper)
I hear you on that point BUT at some point you have to trust someone in this case 3 people - I'm assuming the chances that 2-3 OTC trusted people or Hero/donator forum members doing sort of collusion would be remote I would believe.
For your scenario above the person regardless is fronting some sort of deposit to let everyone know he/she are serious. Good feedback!
Update: I've come up with a way to incorporate an "escrow" around this where it takes 2-3 trust people to release any fraud claim funds against a bitcoin business.
Essentially, the idea is x amount of (btc) is put up as a "deposit" by abc company - 2-3 bitcoin trusted members can apply to be "trusted key holders" against the business ( not associated w/ the business) all this in a transparent website I'm coming up with where it shows how much BTC bond the business has put up and who are the "trusted key holders". Those members get a small dividend for being "trusted key holder" .
This is my initial idea I'm working on.
Essentially, the idea is x amount of (btc) is put up as a "deposit" by abc company - 2-3 bitcoin trusted members can apply to be "trusted key holders" against the business ( not associated w/ the business) all this in a transparent website I'm coming up with where it shows how much BTC bond the business has put up and who are the "trusted key holders". Those members get a small dividend for being "trusted key holder" .
This is my initial idea I'm working on.
I started my bitcoin business small, and if I had to put out 100 BTC to some agency that kept it (not just a deposit) I would not have probably started. On top of that, 100 BTC is not a huge barrier to a true scammer if he was going to start taking deposits for underpriced 7990's for example.
The biggest thing that separates the scammers from the real businesses is time and physical addresses.
Of course it is just a deposit. The money is on the line in the event of a scam, but is refunded whenever the business wants provided that no scam has occurred yet. This refund is announced, so that the fact that the business is no longer "bonded" becomes known to consumers.
Most of these businesses are probably investing substantially in bitcoin on the side anyways. It should not matter for them that much if a trusted third-party holds their bitcoin savings to ensure good behavior.
Yes, the key is "transparency" . Basically, there would be a list of "bonded/insured" bitcoin business's who have "deposited" this amount. Like you said this is just a "deposit" that can be returned upon the company folding and thus announced to the community at large they aren't a "bonded/insured" company. I agree I thinking most legitimate business would have no problem fronting some bitcoin.
The biggest issue will be "fraud complaints" but this will have to come in the form of "class action lawsuits" sort of thing where a group of people will have to make the case not a single individual.
This is a major problem in my opinion. It's a problem in with traditional businesses too. Some countries address it by requiring minimum capitalization to start a business. (China, Denmark)
Because the barrier of entry to start a bitcoin business is so low, it is really easy for scammers to open "businesses". But that's only part of the problem. The low barrier of entry allows businesses, even those with good intentions, to enter the market undercapitalized and underinsured. With minimal investment in a business, the owner really doesn't have much to loose if they want to fall off the face of the earth when the going gets tough unfortunately.
Another problem is lack of insurance options. When I started my site, I looked into ways I could possibly insure my it. Unfortunately, the closest thing I could find was digital intrusion insurance, but the policies were only concerned with damage to systems and loss of privacy information, not loss of digital assets, like bitcoin.
Because the barrier of entry to start a bitcoin business is so low, it is really easy for scammers to open "businesses". But that's only part of the problem. The low barrier of entry allows businesses, even those with good intentions, to enter the market undercapitalized and underinsured. With minimal investment in a business, the owner really doesn't have much to loose if they want to fall off the face of the earth when the going gets tough unfortunately.
Another problem is lack of insurance options. When I started my site, I looked into ways I could possibly insure my it. Unfortunately, the closest thing I could find was digital intrusion insurance, but the policies were only concerned with damage to systems and loss of privacy information, not loss of digital assets, like bitcoin.
Good points. One thing is though the "low" barrier of entry turns into a "commitment" when you fork over 100 btc. It raises the stakes a tad higher weeding out anyone who is looking to scam people. As for your second point, no reason why you couldn't be insured against lost of bitcoin also. The other way around. Meaning you can file that you've lost money due to a hack and collect against a "pool" of money.
Good suggestions and thoughts btw: love btcbuckets!
I started my bitcoin business small, and if I had to put out 100 BTC to some agency that kept it (not just a deposit) I would not have probably started. On top of that, 100 BTC is not a huge barrier to a true scammer if he was going to start taking deposits for underpriced 7990's for example.
The biggest thing that separates the scammers from the real businesses is time and physical addresses.
This is because you are legit
If you were a scammer 100 btc is something your to lazy to deal with - even if you goal is to scam like a ton of BTC from people imho. Then again who knows because I'm not a scammer. All I know is as a customer if I knew the person was backed by some entity I would feel MUCH better shopping/ using a bitcoin related service.I should add you aren't forced to do this if you provide a legit business then yes go ahead "earn" reputation organically
This is a major problem in my opinion. It's a problem in with traditional businesses too. Some countries address it by requiring minimum capitalization to start a business. (China, Denmark)
Because the barrier of entry to start a bitcoin business is so low, it is really easy for scammers to open "businesses". But that's only part of the problem. The low barrier of entry allows businesses, even those with good intentions, to enter the market undercapitalized and underinsured. With minimal investment in a business, the owner really doesn't have much to loose if they want to fall off the face of the earth when the going gets tough unfortunately.
Another problem is lack of insurance options. When I started my site, I looked into ways I could possibly insure my it. Unfortunately, the closest thing I could find was digital intrusion insurance, but the policies were only concerned with damage to systems and loss of privacy information, not loss of digital assets, like bitcoin.
Because the barrier of entry to start a bitcoin business is so low, it is really easy for scammers to open "businesses". But that's only part of the problem. The low barrier of entry allows businesses, even those with good intentions, to enter the market undercapitalized and underinsured. With minimal investment in a business, the owner really doesn't have much to loose if they want to fall off the face of the earth when the going gets tough unfortunately.
Another problem is lack of insurance options. When I started my site, I looked into ways I could possibly insure my it. Unfortunately, the closest thing I could find was digital intrusion insurance, but the policies were only concerned with damage to systems and loss of privacy information, not loss of digital assets, like bitcoin.
Good points. One thing is though the "low" barrier of entry turns into a "commitment" when you fork over 100 btc. It raises the stakes a tad higher weeding out anyone who is looking to scam people. As for your second point, no reason why you couldn't be insured against lost of bitcoin also. The other way around. Meaning you can file that you've lost money due to a hack and collect against a "pool" of money.
Good suggestions and thoughts btw: love btcbuckets!
You might want to mention this story about how bitcoin saved someone from a "crippling injury" :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64287.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64287.0
I don't see how that has anything to do with bitcoin itself, fun story nevertheless.
I suggest she speaks to Erik Voorhees as well since I've been impressed by his stories and posts. He always is spot-on and explains everything as clear as you'd like it to be. I'm pm'ing her now.
This:
Hello,
I'm a journalist for Reuters, and I'm writing an article about Bitcoins. I plan it to be an introductory piece, explaining to a broad audience what Bitcoins are, how they work, and why they are exciting.
I'm interested in talking to people who use Bitcoins who can explain how they are useful and how they got interested in using them.
I'd love to hear from you - send me a PM if you're interested in helping me out!
Naomi
I'm a journalist for Reuters, and I'm writing an article about Bitcoins. I plan it to be an introductory piece, explaining to a broad audience what Bitcoins are, how they work, and why they are exciting.
I'm interested in talking to people who use Bitcoins who can explain how they are useful and how they got interested in using them.
I'd love to hear from you - send me a PM if you're interested in helping me out!
Naomi
Do the doctor one, do the doctor one!+ 1 Dr. Dr.!
Should not things like this be possible thanks to the blockchain, if the business is open with what adresses it uses.
It does not have to reveal who of for what the adresses are used?
And making fake claims is not even possible, because you would have to prove that you did a certain transaction and proving
that is possible since a user can prove they own a sending adress by moving coins in and out of it.
Now with Bip 16 this business could create mirror adresses, owning only half of the acess to that adress.
The other half could be spread out to different persons.
The other key could be spread out to different persons.
Is there not also things like this that OT can solve?
It does not have to reveal who of for what the adresses are used?
And making fake claims is not even possible, because you would have to prove that you did a certain transaction and proving
that is possible since a user can prove they own a sending adress by moving coins in and out of it.
Now with Bip 16 this business could create mirror adresses, owning only half of the acess to that adress.
The other half could be spread out to different persons.
The other key could be spread out to different persons.
Is there not also things like this that OT can solve?
Istar - yes, can mitigate fraudulent claims based of transaction history/block history this is one benefit bitcoin is the transparent ledger it has and we should take advantage of it.
Bip 16 could help because address's could be "assigned" just for transactions dealing with this. Good idea.
I'm going to come up with a crude system now and present it shortly. Very crude but get the ball rolling on it as I have nothing else to do ...and want to do so something in the community here. Further suggestions , ideas or help would be great.