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At the bare minimum we need a mechanism to determine what fee is necessary to propagate a transaction.
Why? The minimum fee to relay a transaction is far less than the minimum fee to confirm a transaction in a reasonable period of time, and Bitcoin Core already calculates the latter automatically, which is all real users care about. Anyone who overrides this recommendation to pay the absolute minimum should "be aware that this can end up in a never confirming transaction" to quote the warning given when you attempt to do this. Bitcoin is not, never has been, and never will be suitable for microtransactions, nor was it designed or intended to be.I am using the cli and I do not see any way to get this recommended number and never even knew that it existed. Also, if Bitcoin can't handle micro-transactions then it cannot scale. Let's hope that isn't the case.
Releasing an update that breaks core functionality would never pass muster in the business world. The only reason given was to keep nodes from dropping off. We really don't need people running nodes on their raspberry pi's and that is certainly not a reason to release such an impactful change. I have a feeling I may just be one of the first to hit the real world problems of this change because I have thousands of customers who complain when transactions don't go through. These problems were predictable but there is no way for the average user to prevent them. I only criticize because I want to see bitcoin become successful and I think this will be a major snafu. Much more serious then just low powered nodes dropping off.
Again, this is a temporary measure, not a permanent. You can increase the fees of your transactions to get them to propagate and confirm, that's the easy and obvious solution.The permanent solution is being prepared for the 0.12 release, which is planned for february.
Also, you can still keep your fees if you identify a number of nodes that will relay your transaction and connect to those nodes so that your transaction gets relayed. If you can find miner's nodes, that is better since it will send them directly to the miners.
Thanks for the advice, it is much appreciated. I have no qualms about setting a higher fee to keep my website running (even though I feel it is not the direction bitcoin should be moving). The problem is I need to know what that fee is. Even with a fee of 0.0001 I sometimes see transactions fail to propagate. From the websites you listed it seems like 0.00009 is the current required fee so I may be hitting an edge case.
I think it would be a great if I could only connect to robust nodes, but end users shouldn't have to resort to implementing those type of solutions to maintain their operations.
It sounds like this is probably the reason because I started seeing issues around 10/13 and 0.11.1 came out 10/15. I remember seeing people recommending changing minrelaytxfee when the reddit post came out.
This really needs to be addressed because it is breaking the core functionality of bitcoin. We can argue about big blocks and txfees but if it becomes impossible to determine what minimum criteria is necessary to propagate a transaction then bitcoin becomes useless. At the bare minimum we need a mechanism to determine what fee is necessary to propagate a transaction. Forcing users to guess with real money does not make for a robust or useable system.
I would argue that the core functionality of bitcoin is not for micro transactions, but that is for a different discussion.This really needs to be addressed because it is breaking the core functionality of bitcoin. We can argue about big blocks and txfees but if it becomes impossible to determine what minimum criteria is necessary to propagate a transaction then bitcoin becomes useless. At the bare minimum we need a mechanism to determine what fee is necessary to propagate a transaction. Forcing users to guess with real money does not make for a robust or useable system.
The mechanism for determining the fee necessary to propagate should be the same mechanism for determining the fee for a transaction to confirm. If it will confirm, it will propagate. You should really be creating transactions with a decent fee, I have been sending them with a minimum fee of 0.0001, if not higher. There are a variety of tools that analyze recent transactions to estimate the best fee. Bitcoin core has its own fee estimation built in, and a site I have been using which is quite helpful is http://www.cointape.com/.
I feel it is somewhat reckless the way these current changes were introduced. I know some people do not want to see Bitcoin used for micro-transactions but there is no way the next 7 billion users will come online without them. The services that depend on micro-transactions will simply move to a new alt and that is what will become the defacto standard for onboarding new users.
You may think it is reckless, but it is in fact not. Every change in Bitcoin Core is discussed on the mailing list, in IRC, or on the github, if not all of them. You can read the discussion specifically for bumping the default here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/6793. Also, this change is considered a temporary measure, not a permanent one. There is a better solution being worked on for 0.12 but that is not ready for a release yet. This change will probably be reverted in the new release.There is quite a lot of dissent on both the github link and on other channels like reddit:
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I understand this is not your priority, but the goal of this PR, I think, is to protect against spammy transaction who does not have enough fees, but it impacts way more than that. 
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this also affects other meta-layer protocols such as Counterparty, Omni, ChanceCoin, NewbieCoin, ....
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Changing network relay rules suddenly is an extremely drastic measure. Many wallets will be forced to rush out updates, and even more users will find their software broken until they update. (from https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3oecqm/psa_to_address_mempool_flooding_bitcoin_core/)
Releasing an update that breaks core functionality would never pass muster in the business world. The only reason given was to keep nodes from dropping off. We really don't need people running nodes on their raspberry pi's and that is certainly not a reason to release such an impactful change. I have a feeling I may just be one of the first to hit the real world problems of this change because I have thousands of customers who complain when transactions don't go through. These problems were predictable but there is no way for the average user to prevent them. I only criticize because I want to see bitcoin become successful and I think this will be a major snafu. Much more serious then just low powered nodes dropping off.
The default for the `-minrelaytxfee` setting has been increased from `0.00001`to `0.00005`in core 0.11.1
Thanks. I am aware of that, but my concern is that even with setting a fee of 0.00005/kb many transactions no longer propagate. I am wondering if others are seeing this problem or if the fact I am issuing many micro-transactions is causing other nodes to blacklist me or something.
It sounds like this is probably the reason because I started seeing issues around 10/13 and 0.11.1 came out 10/15. I remember seeing people recommending changing minrelaytxfee when the reddit post came out.
This really needs to be addressed because it is breaking the core functionality of bitcoin. We can argue about big blocks and txfees but if it becomes impossible to determine what minimum criteria is necessary to propagate a transaction then bitcoin becomes useless. At the bare minimum we need a mechanism to determine what fee is necessary to propagate a transaction. Forcing users to guess with real money does not make for a robust or useable system.
I feel it is somewhat reckless the way these current changes were introduced. I know some people do not want to see Bitcoin used for micro-transactions but there is no way the next 7 billion users will come online without them. The services that depend on micro-transactions will simply move to a new alt and that is what will become the defacto standard for onboarding new users.
The default for the `-minrelaytxfee` setting has been increased from `0.00001`to `0.00005`in core 0.11.1
Thanks. I am aware of that, but my concern is that even with setting a fee of 0.00005/kb many transactions no longer propagate. I am wondering if others are seeing this problem or if the fact I am issuing many micro-transactions is causing other nodes to blacklist me or something.
I have a node that issues many micro-transactions. Even with txfee=0.00005 it has been very unreliable to get transactions to propagate. Sometime they do, sometimes they don't. This has only been a problem starting 10/13 around the time when v0.11.1 came out with the new mempool protection. There was never a problem getting transactions to propagate with txfee=0.00001 before this. Is there something else going on here that I need to take into consideration? I can live with a 5x increase in fees, but if transactions don't propagate reliably it limits the use of bitcoin significantly.
Re: [ANN] Bitvisitor.com - 100k Bitcoin Users To Your Website For Just 0.10 BTC!
I'm glad BitVisitor shows my balance again. Thanks for fixing that feature.
You're welcome! Thanks for using Bitvisitor!
Re: [ANN] Bitvisitor.com - 100k Bitcoin Users To Your Website For Just 0.10 BTC!
sorry for this question but want to ask you are officially from bitvisitor or just doing this for personally because on this forum many are not officially from sites and doing for personal interest
Yes, this is the official account. Thanks for your interest!
Re: [ANN] Bitvisitor.com - 100k Bitcoin Users To Your Website For Just 0.10 BTC!
Hey OP, sorry a few questions;
Would it be possible to provide a test?
Does this traffic have any negative effect? E.G. I know Google does not like adfly.
Do you have any country specific data you can provide? Where the majority of users are from etc?
Thanks,
Would it be possible to provide a test?
Does this traffic have any negative effect? E.G. I know Google does not like adfly.
Do you have any country specific data you can provide? Where the majority of users are from etc?
Thanks,
A good way to test would be to try only 1000 visitors for 1 mBTC and see if the visitors convert to your satisfaction. If you want the visitors at a faster rate you can increase your bid. This traffic does not have any negative affect that we are aware of. The top countries are US, China, Spain and Germany in that order. Thanks for your interest!
[ANN] Bitvisitor.com - 100k Bitcoin Users To Your Website For Just 0.10 BTC!
Thanks to the ongoing success of Bitcoin we are experiencing tremendous growth yet again! New users are clamoring for Bitcoin, and for many people worldwide Bitvisitor is the only place they can be acquired! In response to this incredible demand we have lowered our prices for advertising even further.
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The minimum bid has been lowered to 1 uBTC (0.000001 BTC) per user and this will deliver approximately 4K Bitcoin users a day to your website. You can receive many more (up to 20K+/day) by increasing your bid to appear at the top of the visitor funnel!
Visits can be purchased at http://bitvisitor.com/getvisits.php
Thank you everyone for your support! We are proud to be helping many advertisers grow their Bitcoin businesses while at the same time helping so many new users acquire their first Bitcoins!
http://bitvisitor.com
You can now purchase 100,000 visits from Bitcoin users for just 0.10 BTC! This is the perfect way to ensure a steady stream of new visitors to your website.
The minimum bid has been lowered to 1 uBTC (0.000001 BTC) per user and this will deliver approximately 4K Bitcoin users a day to your website. You can receive many more (up to 20K+/day) by increasing your bid to appear at the top of the visitor funnel!
Visits can be purchased at http://bitvisitor.com/getvisits.php
Thank you everyone for your support! We are proud to be helping many advertisers grow their Bitcoin businesses while at the same time helping so many new users acquire their first Bitcoins!
http://bitvisitor.com
Hi Everyone!
We have experienced huge growth in the last couple of months due to many new services signing up, not to mention the recent rise in bitcoin prices!
There are a huge amount of new bitcoin users using our service and as a result we can continue to extend this excellent offer!
Now is the prefect time to drive thousands of bitcoin users to your websites starting at just 10 uBTC per visit!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
We have experienced huge growth in the last couple of months due to many new services signing up, not to mention the recent rise in bitcoin prices!
There are a huge amount of new bitcoin users using our service and as a result we can continue to extend this excellent offer!
Now is the prefect time to drive thousands of bitcoin users to your websites starting at just 10 uBTC per visit!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
This is not really "visitors" - more like "hits".
No one opening the webpage will give one care about your site, or will even read it for a fraction of a penny. They have multiple browsers with multiple tabs open and keep each page open just long enough to get their tiny reward, without even looking at it. That is, if they are real people who signed up on your site and not just paid traffic from somewhere else.
No one opening the webpage will give one care about your site, or will even read it for a fraction of a penny. They have multiple browsers with multiple tabs open and keep each page open just long enough to get their tiny reward, without even looking at it. That is, if they are real people who signed up on your site and not just paid traffic from somewhere else.
This is simply false. Our visitors are verified by captcha and we take many other security precautions to ensure valid hits from engaged users. The conversion rates of our visitors is absolutely astounding. We receive tons of feed back from happy advertisers and users all the time.
How do I take advantage of the sale? The default bid price on the "buy visits" form is 0.00013 BTC/visitor, so if I try to buy 100,000 visitors, the site prompts me to pay 13 BTC, not 1 BTC.
Just enter the minimum bid of 0.00001 and choose the number of visits you would like! The default bid is for those who wish to appear first in order to maximize their daily traffic. Thanks for checking us out!
-Bitvisitor
Hi Everyone,
Bitvisitor is experiencing explosive of growth right now. We are proud to have given many users their first bitcoins while at the same time providing low cost, highly effective advertising to the Bitcoin community! Recently, we've upgraded our servers, redesigned our site and lowered our prices just to handle the surge in new Bitcoin traffic! If you run a Bitcoin website or service we've got a tremendous deal for you!
Get 100,000 Bitcoin users (Bitvisitors) to visit your website for just 1 BTC!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
A few notes about our service:
1) The higher you bid, the faster you receive your traffic. We currently send about 4k unique users per day to the highest ranked sites and 300 per day to the lowest (0.00001 btc) bids. By making a minimum bid you are locking in a better price over a longer period time, but with less daily visits.
3) Sites that offer Bitcoin incentives get the highest conversions. Some sites are receiving 10%+ conversion rates which is unheard of with traditional advertising!
4) This is a limited time offer! The price may go up at anytime, so lock in this amazing deal ASAP!
http://www.bitvisitor.com/getvisits.php
Thanks to everyone who has helped us give away so many free Bitcoins in the past year! This is just the beginning!
-Bitvisitor
Bitvisitor is experiencing explosive of growth right now. We are proud to have given many users their first bitcoins while at the same time providing low cost, highly effective advertising to the Bitcoin community! Recently, we've upgraded our servers, redesigned our site and lowered our prices just to handle the surge in new Bitcoin traffic! If you run a Bitcoin website or service we've got a tremendous deal for you!
Get 100,000 Bitcoin users (Bitvisitors) to visit your website for just 1 BTC!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
A few notes about our service:
1) The higher you bid, the faster you receive your traffic. We currently send about 4k unique users per day to the highest ranked sites and 300 per day to the lowest (0.00001 btc) bids. By making a minimum bid you are locking in a better price over a longer period time, but with less daily visits.
3) Sites that offer Bitcoin incentives get the highest conversions. Some sites are receiving 10%+ conversion rates which is unheard of with traditional advertising!
4) This is a limited time offer! The price may go up at anytime, so lock in this amazing deal ASAP!
http://www.bitvisitor.com/getvisits.php
Thanks to everyone who has helped us give away so many free Bitcoins in the past year! This is just the beginning!
-Bitvisitor
Very nice! Could you please add Bitvisitor?
Bitcoins: Varies
Resets: Every 24 Hours
Waiting Time: 5 minutes
Captcha: Yes
http://www.bitvisitor.com
Thanks!
Bitcoins: Varies
Resets: Every 24 Hours
Waiting Time: 5 minutes
Captcha: Yes
http://www.bitvisitor.com
Thanks!
[ANNOUNCE] BitVisitor - Get 1,000 Bitcoin Visitors for just 1 BTC!
By connecting Bitcoin users to Bitcoin websites we help grow and expand the Bitcoin ecosystem!
Bitvisitor offers the following AMAZING features:
1) Pre-Qualified Visitors
All Bitvisitors are guaranteed to have a Bitcoin wallet and have some familiarity with using Bitcoin.
2) Captcha Verified
All Bitvisitors are captcha verified to ensure that you only receive human verified traffic.
3) Low cost/High Volume
1 BTC = 1000 visitors currently (subject to market rate)
We strongly encourage all website owners to try out Bitvistor for themselves and experience our truly revolutionary platform!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
Bitvisitor offers the following AMAZING features:
1) Pre-Qualified Visitors
All Bitvisitors are guaranteed to have a Bitcoin wallet and have some familiarity with using Bitcoin.
2) Captcha Verified
All Bitvisitors are captcha verified to ensure that you only receive human verified traffic.
3) Low cost/High Volume
1 BTC = 1000 visitors currently (subject to market rate)
We strongly encourage all website owners to try out Bitvistor for themselves and experience our truly revolutionary platform!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
It has a cool cyberpunk/second realm ring to it... Re: Where to advertise services where you can buy with bitcoins ?
You can get 10000 bitcoin users for just 1 BTC (subject to market rate) over at:
http://www.bitvisitor.com
Hope this helps!
http://www.bitvisitor.com
Hope this helps!
http://www.bitvisitor.com - Earn Free Bitcoins for Visiting Websites.