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ok van de xapo site : https://support.xapo.com/xapo-debit-card
om te vergelijken met localbitcoins gebruik ik niet de upgraded variant
er zit per kaart een lifetime limit van 1000 euro op (dus dan kan je upgraden of de kaart niet meer gebruiken)
dus max bedrag per opname 200
kosten per opname 2.25
kosten op 1000 = 11.25
kosten kaart 18.00
totale kosten 1000 opnemen (zonder upgrade/registratie) = 29.95
= 2.295% bovenop de exchange rate van xapo waar men geheimzinnig over doet, dwz. die staat niet direct op de site zo te zien:
wat is dan die exchange rate, die staat in je xapo debit settings, dus daar moet je eerst een kaart voor aanvragen.
mischien desondanks wel interessant, maar zowiezo al ~2.3% kosten voor 1000 euro cashout, + ??exchange rate
dit verhaal over xapo maakt het er niet veelbelovender op : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3bb1t3/careful_with_the_xapocom_btc_debit_card_exchange/
zit de xapo prijs 5% eronder of 10%, dat maakt wel degelijk verschil.
waarom zo mysterieus over de exchange rate.
om te vergelijken met localbitcoins gebruik ik niet de upgraded variant
er zit per kaart een lifetime limit van 1000 euro op (dus dan kan je upgraden of de kaart niet meer gebruiken)
dus max bedrag per opname 200
kosten per opname 2.25
kosten op 1000 = 11.25
kosten kaart 18.00
totale kosten 1000 opnemen (zonder upgrade/registratie) = 29.95
= 2.295% bovenop de exchange rate van xapo waar men geheimzinnig over doet, dwz. die staat niet direct op de site zo te zien:
Quote
The exchange rate for the Xapo Debit Card is slightly different from the bitcoin price displayed in exchanges such as Bitstamp, Bitfinex or even Xapo. Like any bitcoin or fiat currency exchange - there is a spread which allows Xapo to earn revenue based on this type of differential currency exchange.
https://support.xapo.com/xapo-debit-cardwat is dan die exchange rate, die staat in je xapo debit settings, dus daar moet je eerst een kaart voor aanvragen.
mischien desondanks wel interessant, maar zowiezo al ~2.3% kosten voor 1000 euro cashout, + ??exchange rate
dit verhaal over xapo maakt het er niet veelbelovender op : https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3bb1t3/careful_with_the_xapocom_btc_debit_card_exchange/
zit de xapo prijs 5% eronder of 10%, dat maakt wel degelijk verschil.
waarom zo mysterieus over de exchange rate.
ik heb een aantal kleine trades btc4cash aangemaakt op localbitcoins, maar er reageert niemand (50 euro kleine trade om te beginnen), klopt het dat er weinig leven in de site zit, dat was een jaar geleden wel anders...
hoe doen jullie het als je bitcoins voor cash wil traden?
hoe doen jullie het als je bitcoins voor cash wil traden?
Re: Looking for buying agent for 1688.com - direct from china
actually i can only buy products with btc from fasttech.com, in contrast to geekbuying.com, dx.com or banggood.com they have a limited assortment.
so i am looking for buying agents which i can pay in btc and then will buy the products for me in china (with RMB) and reship them.
so i am looking for buying agents which i can pay in btc and then will buy the products for me in china (with RMB) and reship them.
Re: Anonieme Visa Cards met eigen IBAN [Ideaal om anoniem BTC te cashen!]
http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/01/05/bank-zachodni-wbk-cashing-out-bitcoin-through-prepaid-visa-cards/
hier wordt t een en ander toegelicht, al met al was localbitcoins toch handiger en voordeliger - maar dit is ook een mogelijkheid wil je alles in cash houden.
hier wordt t een en ander toegelicht, al met al was localbitcoins toch handiger en voordeliger - maar dit is ook een mogelijkheid wil je alles in cash houden.
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
I hold a bachelors degree in polsci. moralistic compromising kruft, apolitical, kruft-free. You see, you imply you have done the mandatory digging, but spout of in even more meaningless terms - apolitical, kruft-free, superior, good lord man
Your fancy pieces of paper are of no value here.
They are not fancy, it's not a PhD.
I didn't claim they have value on this forum, per se. They have value in the argument that i don't know what i am talking about. I come back to this later.
On your statement. After, " no value here..." most of the time you add " because A(, B and C)" (not literally of course). Those are arguments, facts with, if necessary references to often articles from.... people with degrees, so people can check that and your argument becomes stronger. Otherwise anybody can just say anything that is not verifiable. Otherwise it's truthiness.
Until you give arguments why they would have no value, with regards to somebody claiming that I don't understand what i am talking about while i hold a degree that covers that subject, you haven't made a point at all. You just said something on the basis of a gut feeling or a conviction. Like "jesus saves" or "the truth shall set you free" or "bitcoins are a good thing" (although we have no experience with what kind of an effect they will have at all).
It's that last point, bitcoins are a good thing, that i have my doubts about. Not on this forum, but if it's a point made by the foundation that says to be apolitical, in so many words, that is a problem. Its not going to mean anything eventually here or anywhere i think - as rich folk can just still buy more coins and it only empowers those who benefit mostly from the least regulation.
We can safely leave the world in their hands, can't we?
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
forget my comment about W, it is made because i live in the Netherlands and i have no idea why US agencies have an active office in the Hague, called DEA The Hague - if this is the roman empire, please let us also at least become romans or we should have a Social Police dept in Washington with Dutch agents at least. They could extradite kleptocrats, financial crooks to the Netherlands for fair trial as the DoddFrank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act seems to be hardly implemented at all.
there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.
I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.
there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.
I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
forget my comment about W, it is made because i live in the Netherlands and i have no idea why US agencies have an active office in the Hague, called DEA The Hague - if this is the roman empire, please let us also at least become romans or we should have a Social Police dept in Washington with Dutch agents at least.
there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.
I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.
there is many benefits, but I find libertarianism naive and appalling, it's just a personal opinion. It's the (tax evasion produced) iPad, starbucks, hip version of a guy in a compound somewhere with a lot of guns, because it is his right. We are all here together, and the right to absolute property is something that seems to be the main motivator in all these discussions.
I know myself what bitcoin allows you to do, now what can one do to make it do something good, that is a question that, apart from some initiatives, does not bother many people here. It's more about ROI, trading bots, legislation and interests... Sounds a lot like the corporations and the politicians as described to begin with.
i can safely say btc-e endorses a 3rd party to scam you, that is OKPAY, the lowest cost way to fund your btc-e account
opportunity for arbitradge? sure okpay is here to make you rich by buying bitcoin in btc-e and you sell it at mtgox, put it back to okpay, the cycle goes, you get rich playing the arbitradge game
PROBLEM IS - ONCE YOU WIRE YOUR MONEY TO OKPAY, YOU CAN KISS YOUR MONEY GOODBYE, THEIR SUPPORT WILL TURN SILENT ONCE YOU SEND YOUR FUNDS, THEN IN A FEW DAYS YOU WILL CONSIDER YOURSELF SCAMMED BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER GET YOUR WIRED MONEY BACK, IT WILL NOT BE CREDITED TO YOUR OKPAY ACCOUNT, YOUR DREAMS FOR ARBRITRADGE WILL NOT HAPPEN
all thanks to BTC-E and MTGOX
opportunity for arbitradge? sure okpay is here to make you rich by buying bitcoin in btc-e and you sell it at mtgox, put it back to okpay, the cycle goes, you get rich playing the arbitradge game
PROBLEM IS - ONCE YOU WIRE YOUR MONEY TO OKPAY, YOU CAN KISS YOUR MONEY GOODBYE, THEIR SUPPORT WILL TURN SILENT ONCE YOU SEND YOUR FUNDS, THEN IN A FEW DAYS YOU WILL CONSIDER YOURSELF SCAMMED BECAUSE YOU WILL NEVER GET YOUR WIRED MONEY BACK, IT WILL NOT BE CREDITED TO YOUR OKPAY ACCOUNT, YOUR DREAMS FOR ARBRITRADGE WILL NOT HAPPEN
all thanks to BTC-E and MTGOX
I remember looking into OKpay and finding out that it is one big scam that doesn't go away! it is run by one guy i recall. google it, go into the whois records and you'll find that it's a complete scam - although it all looks very slick.
I haven't had any problems with btc-e although their cashout methods for USD are many, some in russian - as far as i could figure a courier drops off the cash bills if you live in moscow (its one of the options in russian if you withdraw USD).
i wonder where is btc-e to defend themselves on this forum... that looks bad. Can it be so, that one of the biggest exchangers is a scam?
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
An argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons for accepting a particular conclusion as evident.
The argument (agreeably a mistake on my part) was
People who believe in the claims made on this webpage have a very high change of voting for W bush, because both things are stupid, and unless you belong to a very small minority that is not on this website, it would be to the detriment of your financial wellbeing to do so and therefore against your interest. Which would constitute stupid. Belonging to the same category of people, lets say the stupids, chances are higher that you do/believe things that stupids believe.
I will retract that argument on the spot, but its still an argument.
Idiot though is an antiquated word for the mentally challenged, and it is a derogatory remark.
The argument (agreeably a mistake on my part) was
People who believe in the claims made on this webpage have a very high change of voting for W bush, because both things are stupid, and unless you belong to a very small minority that is not on this website, it would be to the detriment of your financial wellbeing to do so and therefore against your interest. Which would constitute stupid. Belonging to the same category of people, lets say the stupids, chances are higher that you do/believe things that stupids believe.
I will retract that argument on the spot, but its still an argument.
Idiot though is an antiquated word for the mentally challenged, and it is a derogatory remark.
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
If you can't see the underlying implications of this statement as on the front page of the bitcoin foundations [website](https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/why) you might be an engineer. If you really think about it and then do not see anything wrong with it, you might have voted for W.
My brain hurts trying to read the prose of your writing. As someone mentioned earlier, "Bullshit!" has been off the air for years... you think Penn & Teller are going to come back on the air for a Bitcoin "special" or something?
And they're both libertarians; they might actually believe in the idea of Bitcoin for all we know. And your above sentence makes no logical sense. If a person reads the Bitcoin foundation's statement and doesn't come to the same conclusion as you... that somehow indicates they voted for "W" (...former president George Bush?). What a childish and naive world view.
childish? that is argumentem ad hominem.
naive? bitcoins will liberate us...
bitcoins break was largely because it very conveniently facilitated drug dealing.
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
reads to me like you understand very little about politics and even less about monetary science ... fwiw
Start here https://mises.org/daily/3204 and here http://mises.org/document/3970 and don't stop digging, maybe then come back and spout off?
Money is a value information technology, politics seems to always want to add a layer of moralistic, compromising kruft on top, regardless of the tech. involved. Decentralisation allows value information technologies to become truly apolitical, kruft-free and superior in many ways that all users can benefit from.
Start here https://mises.org/daily/3204 and here http://mises.org/document/3970 and don't stop digging, maybe then come back and spout off?
Money is a value information technology, politics seems to always want to add a layer of moralistic, compromising kruft on top, regardless of the tech. involved. Decentralisation allows value information technologies to become truly apolitical, kruft-free and superior in many ways that all users can benefit from.
The journal of libertarian studies, the austrian school of economics. I hold a bachelors degree in polsci. moralistic compromising kruft, apolitical, kruft-free. You see, you imply you have done the mandatory digging, but spout of in even more meaningless terms - apolitical, kruft-free, superior, good lord man
Re: Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
this is about network marketing
Nee, je hoeft je particuliere verkopen niet door te geven, althans dat is waar het nu op lijkt. In feite ziet de belastingdienst het verkopen van bitcoins voor euro's hetzelfde als dat je dollars, roebels of wat dan ook zou inruilen voor euro's. Je verandert eigenlijk alleen de drager van het vermogen, maar je vermogen blijft hetzelfde. Je moet bitcoins, omgerekend naar euro's, dus wel opgeven aan de belastingdienst als vermogen (net zoals je dat met dollars, rupiahs of wat dan ook moet doen), en daar vermogensrendementsheffing (1.2%) over betalen.
Zoals eerder gezegd is de traceerbaarheid naar een persoon van vermogen in bitcoins vrijwel nul op dit moment. Stel dat je echter deze bitcoins wil omzetten in euro's, en je krijgt dus opeens een hoop geld binnen, dan kan het natuurlijk wel zo zijn dat de belastingdienst zich op een gegeven moment gaat afvragen waar dit vermogen vandaan komt. Je zou dit kunnen vergelijken met het hebben van een bankrekening in een land met bankgeheim. Dat is leuk zolang het daar op de rekening staat, maar als je wat met het geld wil doen moet je erg oppassen.
Zie ook deze blogpost (niet van mij), die geeft goede informatie vind ik.
Uiteraard dit alles met enig voorbehoud, want het is natuurlijk niet uitgesloten dat er speciale regels rond crypto's komen.
Zoals eerder gezegd is de traceerbaarheid naar een persoon van vermogen in bitcoins vrijwel nul op dit moment. Stel dat je echter deze bitcoins wil omzetten in euro's, en je krijgt dus opeens een hoop geld binnen, dan kan het natuurlijk wel zo zijn dat de belastingdienst zich op een gegeven moment gaat afvragen waar dit vermogen vandaan komt. Je zou dit kunnen vergelijken met het hebben van een bankrekening in een land met bankgeheim. Dat is leuk zolang het daar op de rekening staat, maar als je wat met het geld wil doen moet je erg oppassen.
Zie ook deze blogpost (niet van mij), die geeft goede informatie vind ik.
Uiteraard dit alles met enig voorbehoud, want het is natuurlijk niet uitgesloten dat er speciale regels rond crypto's komen.
Ik koop bitcoins met cash via localbitcoins, dit pin ik van m'n prive betaalrekening. Deze coins verkoop ik weer via localbitcoins, bitcoin.de, etc. aan particulieren. Kan ik de cash inkoop op de een of andere manier ook opvoeren als kosten, dwz. een printout van localbitcoins of een transactie van blockchain.info in de boekhouding zou toch moeten volstaan.
Echter de fiscus ziet enkel bedragen op de betaalrekening overgeboekt worden en veel cash geld gepint. In weze lever ik natuurlijk een dienst aan de persoon die mij de bitcoins voor cash verkoopt omdat deze de anonimiteit verlangt en ze om welke reden dan ook niet via de gebruikelijke kanalen kan verzilveren.
stel dat mijn marge laag is, hoef ik dan enkel IB te betalen over die lage marge, terwijl grote bedragen via overboekingen binnenkomen en via pin weer 'wegvloeien' - daar kan ik alleen een printje van localbitcoins tegenover zetten.
Is er ook een verschil tussen verkoop van bitcoins aan particulieren (overboeking privereknr -> privereknr) en het uitcashen bij een exchange (bitstamp sarl->privereknr), voor mij als ontvanger wordt dit anders benadert?
bedankt voor t grondige uitzoekwerk, tis nu erg duidelijk dat t allemaal nog lang niet duidelijk is, en dat valt denk ik voor de slimme bitcoin handelaar over het algemeen toch voordelig uit...
Als ik als prive persoon in bitcoins handel dan heb ik enkel te maken met de vermogensbelasting, in die zin dat ik gemaakte winst op bitcoins natuurlijk als inkomstenbelasting moet rekenen.
Neem bijvoorbeeld localbitcoins - je koopt veel bitcoins met cash (dat pin je dan van je privérekening) en die bitcoins verkoop je dan weer op een van de exchanges. De belastingdienst ziet een hoop transacties van bedragen in de 1000en euros naar je rekening overgemaakt worden van mtgox, bitstamp, en verder dat er veel grote bedragen gepint worden. hier worden ook weer bitcoins mee gekocht.
Mijn vraag is eigenlijk, als je nou behoorlijk wat omzet, geld dan een printout van localbitcoins en een transactie in de blockchain naar je wallet ? als degelijk boekhoudkundig bewijs dat je enkel het verschil aan winst hebt gemaakt of kan men dan stellen dat je die gepinde euros zelf uitgegeven hebt?
Neem bijvoorbeeld localbitcoins - je koopt veel bitcoins met cash (dat pin je dan van je privérekening) en die bitcoins verkoop je dan weer op een van de exchanges. De belastingdienst ziet een hoop transacties van bedragen in de 1000en euros naar je rekening overgemaakt worden van mtgox, bitstamp, en verder dat er veel grote bedragen gepint worden. hier worden ook weer bitcoins mee gekocht.
Mijn vraag is eigenlijk, als je nou behoorlijk wat omzet, geld dan een printout van localbitcoins en een transactie in de blockchain naar je wallet ? als degelijk boekhoudkundig bewijs dat je enkel het verschil aan winst hebt gemaakt of kan men dan stellen dat je die gepinde euros zelf uitgegeven hebt?
Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
Quote
We are determined to keep Bitcoin rooted in its core principles: non-political economy, openness and independence. While we aim to advance standards and security, we remain strong advocates of the liberating power of decentralized money.
If you can't see the underlying implications of this statement as on the front page of the bitcoin foundations [website](https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/why) you might be an engineer. If you really think about it and then do not see anything wrong with it, you might have voted for W.
Politics is 'who gets what where, when and how', there is nothing as misleading as suggesting taking the politics out of something to fix it. It's this festering idea especially in the United States and to a lesser extent in the United Kingdom, that regulation leads to bureaucracy and that kills everybody. This bureaucracy is the logical outcome of 'politics'.
The liberating power of money (decentralized, not decentralized, whatever)
how is that going to liberate well at least something close to a significant number of the populace (forget us frapuccino slurping yuppies for a moment.) I presume these claims are made for the benefit of all, not just the initiators of the foundation - which are in turn self-proclaimed strong advocates - and being an advocate that has never anything to do with politics either. 'Freedom' is a word to our western culture as meaningful as 'enjoy' is to Coca-Cola. Empty hollow phraseology that doesn't mean _anything_, so no-one can take offence.
The bitcoin foundation is an interest group in civil society with very strong and clear political ideas (ie. money should not be regulated by a form of consensus/democracy, but must be made by a machine that nobody can fiddle with). That can be your conviction, but it is politics.
Penn and Teller could do a good one about this. "Basically here you have a currency that became popular because it allows you to do all kinds of illegal things and get paid for it while you stay completely or somewhat anonymous, and this is going to save the world... and it is completely politics free... that suonds like a lot of... right, bullshit"
Bitcoin is not going to change the power structures in society much, they just might decide to buy a lot of bitcoins, or do the Chinese thing. It is a neat way to get marijuana though...
Penn & Teller : Bullshit! Bitcoin - btc foundation : non-political economy???
Quote
We are determined to keep Bitcoin rooted in its core principles: non-political economy, openness and independence. While we aim to advance standards and security, we remain strong advocates of the liberating power of decentralized money.
If you can't see the underlying implications of this statement as on the front page of the bitcoin foundations [website](https://bitcoinfoundation.org/about/why) you might be an engineer. If you really think about it and then do not see anything wrong with it, you might have voted for W.
Politics is 'who gets what where, when and how', there is nothing as misleading as suggesting taking the politics out of something to fix it. It's this festering idea especially in the United States and to a lesser extent in the United Kingdom, that regulation leads to bureaucracy and that kills everybody. This bureaucracy is the logical outcome of 'politics'.
The liberating power of money (decentralized or whatever)
how is that going to liberate well at least something close to a significant number of the populace (forget us frapuccino slurping yuppies for a moment.) I presume these claims are made for the benefit of all, not just the initiators of the foundation - which are in turn self-proclaimed strong advocates - and being an advocate that has never anything to do with politics either. 'Freedom' is the our western culture what Enjoy is to Coca-Cola. Empty hollow phrasology that doesn't mean anything.
The bitcoin foundation is an interest group in civil society with very strong and clear political ideas (ie. money should not be regulated by a form of consensus/democracy, but must be made by a machine that nobody can fiddle with). That can be your conviction, but it is politics.
Penn and Teller could do a good one about this. "Basically here you have a currency that became popular because it allows you to do all kinds of illegal things and get paid for it while you stay completely or somewhat anonymous, and this is going to save the world... and it is completely politics free... that suonds like a lot of... right, bullshit"
as it stands now he's on frontpage of wired magazine, new proof that he had six serious murders planned, as well as the undercover fbi agent posing as a hitman and providing him with staged torture and murder of one of his former system administrators.
his defense is now that he isn't the Dread Pirate Roberts...
his defense is now that he isn't the Dread Pirate Roberts...