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Showing 20 of 33 results by centenary
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Why Coinchoose doesn't work for calculating WDC or DGC Profitability
by
centenary
on 24/05/2013, 19:39:50 UTC
I also experienced the same thing, I got way less payout than projected on BigVern's pool.  After a few days of mining, the amount of BTC I earned is comparable to if I had been BTC mining the entire time, even though profitability is supposedly significantly higher than BTC mining.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 05:02:50 UTC
GeistGeld has been humming along on 15 second blocks for what, years now?

So far the biggest problem was been the huge amount of RAM needed, more even than I0Coin.

I guess in a couple of years we will find out whether the RAM usage is due to the sheer number of blocks.

Or, we could update GeistGeld's code in case maybe it has a memory leak, as I0Coin is thought to have.

-MarkM-


What was the peak number of miners?
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 04:25:51 UTC

As I said, the block time needs to be more than several times the maximum end-to-end propagation delay.  This is needed to prevent competing nodes from generating blocks at the same time and convincing large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block.  If competing nodes can convince large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block, you risk fragmentation of the blockchain.  Having the block time be at least several times the maximum end-to-end propagation delays helps prevent competing nodes from convincing large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block.

Block chain fragmentation is not the issue, an overhead for sure, but it's the "double spend attack" from competing chains that we are worried about, which BTW doesn't means "51% attack". You can try to double spend with less but you may not be successful. The more blocks generated, the smaller your chance.  The probability of success with a <50% attack depends on the number of blocks and not the amount of time. This is an advantage of shorter block times.

So what you're saying is, fragmentation is not an issue, except that it allows for double spend attacks.  Sounds like that means fragmentation is in fact an issue.

The probability of success with a <50% attack depends on you generating significantly more blocks than everyone else.  The global block time neither helps nor impedes your ability to do so.
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 04:16:43 UTC
Really?  WorldCoin has proven this?  Which other coin has had an entire mining pool mining on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 consecutive blocks?

The problems were reported by miners; no one lost coins in transactions, at least none were reported.
Also, the pool that took over the blockchain (erundook's) was at about 90% of the hash power since pools just started popping up and his was the most popular. Ask him.

Okay, sure, you can't lose coins that weren't given to you in the first place.  The point is that the network can't stay self-consistent with the given block time parameter.
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 04:14:34 UTC
Well, for what its worth, I was still able to solo mine 544 coins at launch with a measly 1.2 mash. Yes there were a lot of orphans, but things seemed to work themselves out.

I honestly don't think the orphan rate is that critical of a flaw when you gain INSTANT TRANSACTIONS.

Let's join the 21st century people, everyone expects payment to be instantaneous in this day and age.

If you want instant, then decentralized is not the solution.

Negative. We can have our cake and eat it too. Worldcoin has proven this.

If the network stays healthy, we are good to go. It hasn't even been a week since launch!

Really?  WorldCoin has proven this?  Which other coin has had an entire mining pool mining on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 consecutive blocks?

If vendors accept a coin with a short block time(like Worldcoin), it wouldn't matter how frustrated the miners got for overwhelming the network with a huge hash rate.
Traders would still trade, holders would still spend and vendors would still convert; regardless of the miners.
The death of a coin is going to depend on the adoption and infrastructure.

One can always see this as a way to discourage too many miners from throwing hashes at the network, and if there is a major acceptance of such a coin due to marketing, promotion, new software and speed.. then it will gain value and the miners will be the only ones with a problem, that is, only if they overwhelm the network.

The problem is when the orphan chain ends up being the main chain.  Now, you have real transactions taking place on the orphan chain -- someone is going to lose their coins.


There hasn't been any report of anyone 'losing coins' this way, except for mining orphans, which is to expected of any crypto. Even bitcoin has orphans.

With Bitcoins you will encounter an occasional orphan, not 300 orphans consecutively.


Prove it. And what was the current difficulty?

Prove what exactly, that the mining pool was on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 blocks?  Go read the mining pool's news for yourself: http://wdc.dontmine.me/news

This happened today, so the difficulty was either 5-ish or 8-ish.  It doesn't really matter what the difficulty was though, the pool had a quarter of the net hash rate the entire day
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 04:07:24 UTC
Well, for what its worth, I was still able to solo mine 544 coins at launch with a measly 1.2 mash. Yes there were a lot of orphans, but things seemed to work themselves out.

I honestly don't think the orphan rate is that critical of a flaw when you gain INSTANT TRANSACTIONS.

Let's join the 21st century people, everyone expects payment to be instantaneous in this day and age.

If you want instant, then decentralized is not the solution.

Negative. We can have our cake and eat it too. Worldcoin has proven this.

If the network stays healthy, we are good to go. It hasn't even been a week since launch!

Really?  WorldCoin has proven this?  Which other coin has had an entire mining pool mining on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 consecutive blocks?

If vendors accept a coin with a short block time(like Worldcoin), it wouldn't matter how frustrated the miners got for overwhelming the network with a huge hash rate.
Traders would still trade, holders would still spend and vendors would still convert; regardless of the miners.
The death of a coin is going to depend on the adoption and infrastructure.

One can always see this as a way to discourage too many miners from throwing hashes at the network, and if there is a major acceptance of such a coin due to marketing, promotion, new software and speed.. then it will gain value and the miners will be the only ones with a problem, that is, only if they overwhelm the network.

The problem is when the orphan chain ends up being the main chain.  Now, you have real transactions taking place on the orphan chain -- someone is going to lose their coins.


There hasn't been any report of anyone 'losing coins' this way, except for mining orphans, which is to expected of any crypto. Even bitcoin has orphans.

With Bitcoins you will encounter an occasional orphan, not 300 orphans consecutively.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 04:06:36 UTC

The network is connected enough so that there is multiple ways to route messages between each pair of nodes.  If a node dies on a route between two nodes, messages are redirected across other routes that don't involve the dead node.
Very good, and the same applies to nodes that can't get an update within 15sec.



That really isn't good enough.

As I said, the block time needs to be more than several times the maximum end-to-end propagation delay.  This is needed to prevent competing nodes from generating blocks at the same time and convincing large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block.  If competing nodes can convince large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block, you risk fragmentation of the blockchain.  Having the block time be at least several times the maximum end-to-end propagation delays helps prevent competing nodes from convincing large parts of the network that their respective block is the winning block.

So what is the maximum end-to-end propagation delay?  Bitcoin networks are constructed by randomly connecting to IP addresses.  This means that Bitcoin networks ignore geographic locations, so end-to-end communication can cross the globe multiple times.  The network construction also does not limit the width of the network, so end-to-end communication can require numerous hops.  Add processing delays on each node and you can easily get a maximum end-to-end propagation time that is tens of seconds.
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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][DGC] DigitalCoin.Co || Instant | Stable | Reliable || LAUNCHED
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 03:21:12 UTC
Some of the reasons those coins didn't succeed:

1. Some pre-mine or "test" mining.
2. Some difficulty 0 and had a lot of hardware ready with their insiders
3. Some difficulty 0 and get over-mined since the very beginning before nodes are well distributed
4. Some only got mined at the beginning when it was easy and then they stopped

Why is digitalcoin different?

1. No pre-mine or any semblance of it.
2. Number 1 again.
3. digitalcoin had very low rewards at the beginning so coins didn't begin to be distributed in quantity until many people could participate
4. It is more profitable to stay with digitalcoin due to the nature of the reward system

DigitalCoin won't succeed for a different reason.  The chosen block time is actually too short.  I write about why that's a bad thing here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211535.0

I read that. Good thoughts. One of the developers who took part in this project did take care of that for us. Check the pool rates for the orphan rates and efficiency.

What exactly did the developer do to prevent these issues?  Note that the issues I present only become apparent once the distributed network becomes large enough.  Low orphan rates now doesn't necessarily prove anything, it likely just means that the network hasn't grown large enough for these problems to become apparent yet.

We are still in beta and working on documentation. You can check the source and see the changes yourself.

The only relevant thing that I see in the source diffs is that MAX_OUTBOUND_CONNECTIONS was increased from 8 to 16.  Is that the change made to avoid these issues?  If so, can you articulate why you believe that is sufficient?
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 03:18:32 UTC
Sounds like a load of crap to me, lets have some maths to support the claims please.

The fact that an entire mining pool was on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 blocks isn't enough to convince you?

How many nodes represent one end of the chain to the other?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here.  "Maximum end-to-end propagation time" is the maximum amount of time it would take for a message from any node to reach every other node.  Each node is an "end" in that each node is both a source and destination for messages.  For a given node, the "opposite" node is the node out of all nodes where sending a message to would take the longest.

Ever heard of the 6 degrees of separation theory?

Can you articulate why that theory is relevant here?  In that theory, each person can have an unlimited number of connections.  In Bitcoin distributed networks, each node has a limited number of connections (only eight by default).  So again, can you articulate why that theory is relevant here?

How do you compensate for a node that has bad lag or off-line for half an hour? Well above any useful block rate.

The network is connected enough so that there is multiple ways to route messages between each pair of nodes.  If a node dies on a route between two nodes, messages are redirected across other routes that don't involve the dead node.
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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][DGC] DigitalCoin.Co || Instant | Stable | Reliable || LAUNCHED
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 02:29:05 UTC
Some of the reasons those coins didn't succeed:

1. Some pre-mine or "test" mining.
2. Some difficulty 0 and had a lot of hardware ready with their insiders
3. Some difficulty 0 and get over-mined since the very beginning before nodes are well distributed
4. Some only got mined at the beginning when it was easy and then they stopped

Why is digitalcoin different?

1. No pre-mine or any semblance of it.
2. Number 1 again.
3. digitalcoin had very low rewards at the beginning so coins didn't begin to be distributed in quantity until many people could participate
4. It is more profitable to stay with digitalcoin due to the nature of the reward system

DigitalCoin won't succeed for a different reason.  The chosen block time is actually too short.  I write about why that's a bad thing here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211535.0

I read that. Good thoughts. One of the developers who took part in this project did take care of that for us. Check the pool rates for the orphan rates and efficiency.

What exactly did the developer do to prevent these issues?  Note that the issues I present only become apparent once the distributed network becomes large enough.  Low orphan rates now doesn't necessarily prove anything, it likely just means that the network hasn't grown large enough for these problems to become apparent yet.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 02:22:11 UTC
For all cryptocurrencies based off the Bitcoin protocol, the block time needs to be chosen carefully in order to guarantee that nearly every node in the distributed network maintains the same view of the blockchain.  The block time needs to be, at the very least, several times larger than the maximum end-to-end propagation delay across the distributed network.

Choosing a very short block time demonstrates a lack of understanding of this requirement.  If you make block times very short, then nodes will generate blocks faster than it would take for notifications to reach nodes on the opposite end of the distributed network.  This will cause nodes within the distributed network to have inconsistent views of the blockchain.

What does this mean?  1) Lots of orphans.  2) Very long orphan blockchains.  3) Significantly reduced security for the network.

Earlier today, one of the WorldCoin mining pools (http://wdc.dontmine.me) was on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 blocks.  That would never happen for any competently designed coin.

Altcoins with very short block times have no real future.  Once they reach a certain critical mass, they will inherently self-destruct due to the large percentage of inconsistency within the distributed network.  Imagine the blockchain accidentally forking into two separate blockchains.  With very short block times, that's a real possibility.  Or imagine having a transaction confirmed, only to realize hours later that the transaction was confirmed in an orphan blockchain and needs to be rolled back and reconfirmed.  No one would realistically support such an altcoin.

If you're going to release an altcoin, do the community a favor and at least release something that appears competently designed.

One small issue, BTC/LTC are too slow. As long as that remains a reality, we're going to have to at least experiment with lower block times :\

The only way to realistically lower the block times is to restructure the blockchain and the protocol for the distributed network.  You can't simply copy the Bitcoin protocol and paste in arbitrarily small block times, the Bitcoin protocol wasn't designed for that.
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Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][DGC] DigitalCoin.Co || Instant | Stable | Reliable || LAUNCHED
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 02:17:00 UTC
Some of the reasons those coins didn't succeed:

1. Some pre-mine or "test" mining.
2. Some difficulty 0 and had a lot of hardware ready with their insiders
3. Some difficulty 0 and get over-mined since the very beginning before nodes are well distributed
4. Some only got mined at the beginning when it was easy and then they stopped

Why is digitalcoin different?

1. No pre-mine or any semblance of it.
2. Number 1 again.
3. digitalcoin had very low rewards at the beginning so coins didn't begin to be distributed in quantity until many people could participate
4. It is more profitable to stay with digitalcoin due to the nature of the reward system

DigitalCoin won't succeed for a different reason.  The chosen block time is actually too short.  I write about why that's a bad thing here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=211535.0
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 02:04:22 UTC
coins with very short block times demonstrate the ability to take almost 100% of the rewards with enough hashrate to orphan everyone else trying to mine

This is almost certainly intended behavior by their creators.  It allows them to premine while maintaining the illusion of "fairness".

Yes, even with smaller block rewards for early mining.

It is literally a race of seconds for the first person to throw several dozen Megahash at the network.

once you have it, you control it.  Everyone else will be orphaned.

This is absolutely a valid argument.  For anyone who thinks this can't happen, it happened with GameCoin.  Someone (presumably the developer) was able to override the mined blockchain with an even longer blockchain, giving all of the rewards to that one person.
No, gamecoin just used the exact same genesis block as feathercoin, and didn't bother to add new checkpoints. Someone just copy pasted the feathercoin block chain and it began propogating across the network.

Wow, that's a new level of incompetence that I wasn't prepared for
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 02:02:10 UTC
coins with very short block times demonstrate the ability to take almost 100% of the rewards with enough hashrate to orphan everyone else trying to mine

This is almost certainly intended behavior by their creators.  It allows them to premine while maintaining the illusion of "fairness".

Yes, even with smaller block rewards for early mining.

It is literally a race of seconds for the first person to throw several dozen Megahash at the network.

once you have it, you control it.  Everyone else will be orphaned.

This is absolutely a valid argument.  For anyone who thinks this can't happen, it happened with GameCoin.  Someone (presumably the developer) was able to override the mined blockchain with an even longer blockchain, giving all of the rewards to that one person.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Topic OP
Coins with very short block times demonstrate incompetence
by
centenary
on 21/05/2013, 01:47:05 UTC
For all cryptocurrencies based off the Bitcoin protocol, the block time needs to be chosen carefully in order to guarantee that nearly every node in the distributed network maintains the same view of the blockchain.  The block time needs to be, at the very least, several times larger than the maximum end-to-end propagation delay across the distributed network.

Choosing a very short block time demonstrates a lack of understanding of this requirement.  If you make block times very short, then nodes will generate blocks faster than it would take for notifications to reach nodes on the opposite end of the distributed network.  This will cause nodes within the distributed network to have inconsistent views of the blockchain.

What does this mean?  1) Lots of orphans.  2) Very long orphan blockchains.  3) Significantly reduced security for the network.

Earlier today, one of the WorldCoin mining pools (http://wdc.dontmine.me) was on an orphan blockchain for more than 300 blocks.  That would never happen for any competently designed coin.

Altcoins with very short block times have no real future.  Once they reach a certain critical mass, they will inherently self-destruct due to the large percentage of inconsistency within the distributed network.  Imagine the blockchain accidentally forking into two separate blockchains.  With very short block times, that's a real possibility.  Or imagine having a transaction confirmed, only to realize hours later that the transaction was confirmed in an orphan blockchain and needs to be rolled back and reconfirmed.  No one would realistically support such an altcoin.

If you're going to release an altcoin, do the community a favor and at least release something that appears competently designed.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Elacoin dev continues to be incompetent, for the second time... Read on...
by
centenary
on 14/05/2013, 08:24:26 UTC
I'm sure many people are still running the 1000000 client.

And it's hilarious that crap like this even gets pushed out. This guy has no idea what he's doing in the code. He's just editing random variables and hoping they do what he wants.
You do realize it is >> right? higher >> means a lower number.
Perhaps I phrased that poorly. Or in a way that you did not understand. Anyway...

Allow me to rephrase it another way. By using an example. On bitcoin testnet, that variable in particular is decreased in order to reduce the minimum difficulty.

You, however, decided to increase it from it's starting value of 20, to an insane value of 1000000. You are in for some nasty difficulty spikes because of this.
LOL, I wonder if you actually know programming.

It was shifted right. Bitops. SHIFTING IT RIGHT DOES NOT INCREASE IT, IT DECREASES IT.
False.

That variable is in place to stop the difficulty from ever getting too low. It serves as the floor for difficulty, basically. There is enough documentation online to prove this.

You have increased that floor from 20 to 1000000. Ergo, you have INCREASED difficulty by an insane amount.

You've already proven yourself to be incompetent. Don't even act like you know a damn thing about how bitcoin works, or coin creation in general.

Er, those values are preceded by a right-shift operator.  By changing the amount of right-shift from 20 to 1000000, he actually is making the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit smaller, not larger.  In fact, because uint256 doesn't actually have 1000000 bits, by setting the amount of right-shift to 1000000, he's basically setting the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit to 0.

I support all of your other posts, but this one isn't technically accurate.
This value in testnet is specifically decreased to make block generation easier. It would follow that increasing it would make block generation harder.

Yes, and by right-shifting by 1000000 bits, he's setting the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit to 0.

I don't know if you're a coder, so I'll try to break it down.  Right-shifting by 1 will divide the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit by 2^1.  Right-shifting by 2 will divide the value of bnProofWorkLimit by 2^2.  Right-shifting by 1000000 will divide the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit by 2^1000000.  This will cause the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit to be extremely tiny.  Since computers don't actually have that much precision, bnProofOfWorkLimit actually gets set to 0.

As you said, decreasing the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit value makes block generation easier.  He successfully did so by setting bnProofOfWorkLimit to 0.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Elacoin dev continues to be incompetent, for the second time... Read on...
by
centenary
on 14/05/2013, 08:15:39 UTC
I'm sure many people are still running the 1000000 client.

And it's hilarious that crap like this even gets pushed out. This guy has no idea what he's doing in the code. He's just editing random variables and hoping they do what he wants.
You do realize it is >> right? higher >> means a lower number.
Perhaps I phrased that poorly. Or in a way that you did not understand. Anyway...

Allow me to rephrase it another way. By using an example. On bitcoin testnet, that variable in particular is decreased in order to reduce the minimum difficulty.

You, however, decided to increase it from it's starting value of 20, to an insane value of 1000000. You are in for some nasty difficulty spikes because of this.
LOL, I wonder if you actually know programming.

It was shifted right. Bitops. SHIFTING IT RIGHT DOES NOT INCREASE IT, IT DECREASES IT.
False.

That variable is in place to stop the difficulty from ever getting too low. It serves as the floor for difficulty, basically. There is enough documentation online to prove this.

You have increased that floor from 20 to 1000000. Ergo, you have INCREASED difficulty by an insane amount.

You've already proven yourself to be incompetent. Don't even act like you know a damn thing about how bitcoin works, or coin creation in general.

Er, those values are preceded by a right-shift operator.  By changing the amount of right-shift from 20 to 1000000, he actually is making the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit smaller, not larger.  In fact, because uint256 doesn't actually have 1000000 bits, by setting the amount of right-shift to 1000000, he's basically setting the value of bnProofOfWorkLimit to 0.

I support all of your other posts, but this one isn't technically accurate.
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Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN] Elacoin | Releasing In 1 Day | Fair Elastic Scrypt Mining | No Premine
by
centenary
on 14/05/2013, 00:41:37 UTC
Devianttwo, pool is so messy I can't even understand what's the right host:port. Could you please clarify?

Updated the page. Thats what happens when you copy past Web files from PWC to ELC.  I forgot to update the index page but the get started page has always been correct.

The following error shows up everywhere, is it normal?  "Notice: Undefined variable: totalOverallShares in /var/www/elc/statsAuth.php on line 296"
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Board Beginners & Help
Re: Rent space on a mining server. Mining United, Make extra bitcoins.
by
centenary
on 13/05/2013, 23:06:37 UTC
How does this fit into your 'Ponzi Scheme' claim:

We are not taking new purchases until we payout current users!

MiningUnited.com is not a Ponzi Scheme. Mining United does not need new purchases to payout prior ones.

Where did I say it was a Ponzi scheme?  I simply mentioned Ponzi scheme as an example of a scam that gives returns for awhile, there are other types of scams that will do the same.

And stopping new purchases doesn't prove anything in terms of whether or not it's a Ponzi scheme.  For all we know, you're stopping new purchases because you've reached the point where you can no longer support a Ponzi scheme.  Again, not necessarily stating that this is a Ponzi scheme, just pointing out that you haven't said anything that would be inconsistent with one.
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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: User Luke-Jr claims Litecoin is a "quick pump and dump scheme" on Wikipedia
by
centenary
on 13/05/2013, 22:57:44 UTC
Luke-jr may be wrong on Litecoins but you should all respect him and not badmouth him (Radacoin). Have you read the #bitcoin-dev log from the March 11/March 12 hardfork event?? Luke-jr was the guy taking the lead on the solution. He is the reason that you are still wealthy if any of you were smart enough to buy BTC at low prices! A thank you would be in order.

http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2013/03/12

 Luke-jr is also the guy who maintain the bitcoin gentoo ebuild, and cgminer is the best miner I found ( and I use it for mining LTC ).

 I dont agree with him concerning litecoin, but I think we should all respect him for all his good work. Litecoin user or not we all need bitcoin, and luke is a useful guy in the community.

 Everyone is allowed to have an opinion in this community ! Lets all try to stay civil !



Er, cgminer is done by ckolivas.  Luke-jr is responsible for BFGMiner.  BFGMiner is a fork of cgminer, but Luke-jr is now trying to claim that cgminer has forked BFGMiner for trolling reasons.  I'm not even making that up, go check out his post about it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=168174.msg1758702#msg1758702