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Showing 14 of 14 results by coin2013
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 25/07/2013, 06:10:53 UTC
FinCEN is classifying bitcoin as currency and in their guidance it states:

"An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency." 

"An administrator or exchanger that (1) accepts and transmits a convertible virtual currency or (2) buys or sells convertible virtual currency for any reason is a money transmitter under FinCEN's regulations, unless a limitation to or exemption from the definition applies to the person."

"The term "money transmission services" means "the acceptance of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency from one person and the transmission of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency to another location or person by any means.""

So as discussed previously in the post, it appears that: "If it is done infrequently and not for profit then that exemption applies otherwise registration is required for ALL exchangers."

What still doesn't make sense to me, is you can create an account with Etrade (https://us.etrade.com/investing-trading/forex?ploc=it-nav) and start FOREX trading; which is trading currency. To my knowledge it appears you can do that all day long for the sole purpose of making a profit. However it appears from the recent guidance, if you were to trade bitcoin for the sole purpose of making a profit, then you would need to register with FinCEN. I don't understand why someone would be able to be a "day trader" on Etrade and trade real currency for a profit, however if they were to become a "day trader" with bitcoin, then they would need to register with FinCEN.

What is the difference between trading fiat and trading bitcoin, that would require you to register with FinCEN if you decided to trade bitcoin for a profit? It appears they are both considered currency with FinCEN. I might be totally missing something, but this is what I really don't understand.
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 23/07/2013, 16:57:02 UTC
Here's an interesting question: A miner set up a VPS in another country and mines with a pool here, the pool sends all of the bitcoins to a wallet located on the VPS in another country; then the miner exchanges those mined units on an exchange located outside of the country. Since the bitcoins were never located in a state that licenses "money transmitters", would this be possible and not violate the guidance?

On that fact pattern, nobody is actually located in the US or doing business with US citizens?  I don't believe US regulators would have any jurisdiction over the miner.

If the miner is a US citizen residing in the US, then it's a closer call.

Using the same scenario: What if the miner was a US Citizen and the mining rig was located in the US, but just like in the scenario, the pool sent the bitcoins rewarded to the VPS that was located outside of the country and those mined units were exchanged on a foreign exchange?
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 23/07/2013, 15:58:14 UTC
Can an individual (non-miner/or miner dealing with coins not mined) in the USA, buy & sell bitcoins on an exchange without needing to register with FinCEN? I still haven't found a clear answer with this question.

Per FinCEN guidance I already answered.  If it is done infrequently and not for profit then that exemption applies otherwise registration is required for ALL exchangers.

Tragically, the guidance does not literally exclude non-business miners.  By its terms:

a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter.

Note the use of the word "person" not "business".  It's my reading of it, given the context, that there is some argument to be made that persons not engaged in mining "as a business" are exempt.  But my opinion is in the minority, and it is contrary to the plain text of the guidance.

Here's an interesting question: A miner set up a VPS in another country and mines with a pool here, the pool sends all of the bitcoins to a wallet located on the VPS in another country; then the miner exchanges those mined units on an exchange located outside of the country. Since the bitcoins were never located in a state that licenses "money transmitters", would this be possible and not violate the guidance?
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: What are the two unregulated "Money Transmitter" states? (USA)
by
coin2013
on 23/07/2013, 05:24:18 UTC
The primary significance of those states is for local bitcoin sales or exchanges.  So, miners located in those states that sell their mined coin, for example, might be able to avoid state licensing requirements so long as they are selling those coins to people within the state.

Wouldn't they also be able to use an exchange located outside of the country?
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: What are the two unregulated "Money Transmitter" states? (USA)
by
coin2013
on 23/07/2013, 04:13:37 UTC
According to this PDF document prepared by Thomas Brown at UC Berkeley the two free states are South Carolina and Montana.

Somebody found my cheat sheet!

I don't suppose you would be so kind as to share your opinion on what significance (if any) there is in SC and Montana not having these regulations, as it relates specifically to the Bitcoin legal landscape?

Is this more along the lines of an interesting piece of trivia or something that people who are starting up Bitcoin based businesses should possibly consider when choosing where to operate, incorporate, etc...?

I guess, I don't see any evidence of a whole bunch of current fiat-based institutions locating themselves in these states or anything (please correct me if I'm wrong), which tells me that the "free" states are sort of free in name only? 

My guess is:

If you are operating as a money transmitter in a state that doesn't require a license; then you would only need to register with FinCEN. But that would be if you are only doing business in that state. With the current guidance of FinCEN (until/if it is further clarified), the advantage I could see; is a miner would then be able to sell units that he/she mined on an exchange such as BTC-E. Again this is only a guess, as I'm not a lawyer.
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 22/07/2013, 18:25:01 UTC
Thank you!!
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 22/07/2013, 16:53:19 UTC
Can an individual (non-miner/or miner dealing with coins not mined) in the USA, buy & sell bitcoins on an exchange without needing to register with FinCEN? I still haven't found a clear answer with this question.
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 05:36:35 UTC
Thank you for your input!

What about buying bitcoins from an exchange? If that is legal, would you be required to use an exchange that is registered with FinCEN?

What about selling bitcoins that you didn't mine? Again, if it is legal to sell bitcoins on an exchange, are you required to use an exchange that is registered with FinCEN or could you use something like BTC-E?
Post
Topic
Board Legal
Topic OP
FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 05:07:12 UTC
If a miner mines bitcoins, would a miner that is not registered as a money transmitter be able to sell them on an exchange that has registered with FinCEN (MtGox, Bitinstant, etc) or would they both have to be registered as a money transmitter?

Would a miner be able to sell bitcoins that he/she mined for gold/silver and not be considered a money transmitter?

Would a miner that mined litecoins be able to exchange them for bitcoins on BTC-E?

Putting mining aside for a moment; Is it legal to transfer funds to BTC-E and buy litecoins and eventually exchange them for Bitcoins on BTC-E when the price is right? Then find an exchange such as Bitinstant or MtGox that apparently has registered with FinCEN to sell the bitcoins for USD? Or would someone in the USA, not be able to use BTC-E because they are not registered?

Is it legal to buy/sell on what appears to be a registered exchange such as MtGox or Bitinstant?
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Re: FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 04:37:41 UTC
I just did a search http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/msbstateselector.html and it appears to me as Bitinstant as being registered.

MSB Registration Number: 31000005031107
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Topic OP
FinCEN
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 04:04:35 UTC
If a miner mines bitcoins, would a miner that is not registered as a money transmitter be able to sell them on an exchange that has registered with FinCEN (MtGox, Bitinstant, etc) or would they both have to be registered as a money transmitter?

Would a miner be able to sell bitcoins that he/she mined for gold/silver and not be considered a money transmitter?

Would a miner that mined litecoins be able to exchange them for bitcoins on BTC-E?

Putting mining aside for a moment; Is it legal to transfer funds to BTC-E and buy litecoins and eventually exchange them for Bitcoins on BTC-E when the price is right? Then find an exchange such as Bitinstant or MtGox that apparently has registered with FinCEN to sell the bitcoins for USD? Or would someone in the USA, not be able to use BTC-E because they are not registered?

Is it legal to buy/sell on what appears to be a registered exchange such as MtGox or Bitinstant?

Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Re: Power Supply - Thermaltake SMART M1200W
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 03:20:29 UTC
That sounds like it should work. The GPU only came with one molex to pci-e adapter but I could grab another molex to pci-e adapter from one of the other units, so there are two power cords going to it.

Out of curiosity, why would they only include one molex to pci-e adapter, when in reality you are supposed to have two pci-e plug ins?

Thank you!
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Topic OP
Power Supply - Thermaltake SMART M1200W
by
coin2013
on 19/07/2013, 01:59:03 UTC
I have a Thermaltake "SMART M1200W" PSU. I currently have 3 MSI 7950's TWIN FROZR 3GD5/OC and would like to add a 4th. However I'm not sure how to make that work with the power supply that I have. It only came with 6 PCI-E, and I have used all six of those for the GPU's that I have. On the back of the CPU their are only 3 plug ins that fit that particular cord and they are now all used. There are other plug in's on the back but none that will fit another cord like that. Any advice on how to be able to add a 4th GPU to my rig without needing to buy another PSU?
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Topic OP
Newbie restrictions and pms?
by
coin2013
on 18/07/2013, 04:56:07 UTC
When are you allowed to send a PM?