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Showing 15 of 15 results by davemichaelson
Hello everyone, anyone can tell me details about crypto currency trading, i am highly interested to learn 🥰🥰🥰
Step one: Collect crypto coins
Step two:
Step three: Profit!
Re: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
it's possible that the company is negligent or worse
This is absolutely true.They previously reused r values which resulted in hundreds of users having their coins stolen. Basically, every time you sign a bitcoin transaction, a random number is included as part of the signing process. If you reuse this random number across multiple transactions (as blockchain.com did), then you can essentially reverse the signing process and calculate the users' private keys. Once you have their private keys, you can steal all their coins.
Thankfully, a bitcointalk.org user managed to sweep lots of the vulnerable funds and later return them to their rightful owners. It's an incredible basic mistake for blockchain.com to make. Who knows what other incredibly basic mistakes they make when it comes to their security.
Cuz I think it makes them easier to read.
It doesn'tThat's fascinating to know. Definitely supports my concern that there may be (additional) fire where we keep seeing smoke.
Re the user above asking about my personal bias, I think I posted above that I'm a lawyer. My interest is in learning how the legal system can better translate its services to the crypto universe. I enjoy crypto investing and am trying to expand my knowledge of a field which I think has potential (likelihood?) of changing the lives of most people on earth. This particular company happens to be "low-hanging fruit" for me to learn what's going on.
Re: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
That's because in 99.9% of the cases, it is. If we were talking about the electrum wallet, would someone think about going after the developers for losing the coins? I don't think so. Blockchain.info/com has its problems, but that does not mean they are responsible for their users' actions. If there was enough evidence that they were doing something malicious, then I'm pretty sure we'd all go against them. However, most claims one sees around are the same than for desktop/phone wallets, so it's in most cases a new crypto user that thinks that because there's a website offering a service, the website is reponsible for security.
PS: why do you write all your posts in italics?
Cuz I think it makes them easier to read.
And I'd say my point is that the Websites ARE responsible here. Then can prove they fulfilled their duty of care re your wealth, but in many cases it sounds like they haven't.
Anyway, as noted at the top - I'm a noob. A lot of things are changing as we transition to blockchain, and I keep wondering about responsibility - of wallet devs, of hosts, of oracles who give bad info, etc.
I don't see how can you prove those "dishonest companies" guilty. And if you can't you won't really have a case.
Those naive people most probable clicked into phishing sites and gave their credentials to malicious third party.
I don't say that the businesses are not necessarily guilty, but why would they risk stealing if they do earn money anyway? Again, you only have a case only if you can prove them guilty.
Those naive people most probable clicked into phishing sites and gave their credentials to malicious third party.
I don't say that the businesses are not necessarily guilty, but why would they risk stealing if they do earn money anyway? Again, you only have a case only if you can prove them guilty.
Well, that's the point, innit? Until someone gets these jokers into a court of law or even into arbitration, there is no way to find out what they're actually doing. We're all just guessing without knowledge. My point is that the mechanism to gain knowledge IS to go to court; you can't magically find that evidence before you go to court unless there's a whistleblower.
Re: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
Thanks for the replies, guys.
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
As I noted above, I'm not ok with that. But I was too late to BTC to pay for litigation against the company by myself
It still sounds like this is something that happens regularly; we don't know why it happens; it's possible that the company is negligent or worse; but we just assume it's user error and we're ok with that.
As I noted above, I'm not ok with that. But I was too late to BTC to pay for litigation against the company by myself
Sure, but in the case of blockchain.com, they claim they are entirely non-custodial and so do not have access to your accounts and do not know your private keys or addresses. If this is true, then they have no documents or evidence to provide and no information they can hand over. It will be your word against theirs as to whether or not the wallet ever contained the bitcoin in the first place.
They don't, actually. Their current Terms of Service explicitly say they act as a custodian of your assets, at least for tokens in a "Trading Account." They very much have a legal duty re those assets. And they have a legal presence and can be sued in the UK and US.
They don't, actually. Their current Terms of Service explicitly say they act as a custodian of your assets, at least for tokens in a "Trading Account." They very much have a legal duty re those assets. And they have a legal presence and can be sued in the UK and US.
p.s. Of course it helps if you've kept records of your own: screenshots, login information, etc.
People who are naive enough to use web wallets are almost certainly not keeping up to date logs or records of their own. If they were willing to go to all this effort, then they would just go to the far lesser effort of installing and using their own wallet.There are hundreds of billions of dollars being invested by naive people. I really hate this idea that they are all appropriate victims for dishonest companies. In the absence of appropriate means for punishing them directly (where are you, Anonymous?!?!), we have to use the current legal tools available to us. Otherwise, the rip-offs will just grow and spread.
⭐ Merited by o_e_l_e_o (4)
Lest you think I'm just blowing smoke here: I happen to BE an attorney willing to take such cases on a contingency basis. It looks like an area with a lot of need to me, and I can't stand the idea of companies committing theft through incompetence.
Then let me ask you: How would you prove a case such as this one?I come to you and say "I used to have 15 BTC in my Blockchain.com account but now the website says my wallet is empty and the address holding those coins has disappeared". You contact blockchain.com and they say "That never happened". Even if I can point to an address which has 15 BTC in it, I cannot prove that those bitcoin are mine, that that address belongs/belonged to me, that it was part of a blockchain.com wallet, that it used to be part of this specific wallet, and so on.
I can log you in to my wallet and show you an empty wallet, which proves nothing. Does this not just end up in a he-said-she-said situation of my word against the word of blockchain.com?
The answer really depends on the venue of your case. But in general, legal cases DO NOT start with everyone knowing the facts - quite the opposite, in fact. Cases start with allegations. With you having made your allegations in a court of law, the defendant (the company) then has an obligation to preserve relevant evidence.
Then, provided that you have made credible allegations, the court allows you to obtain documents and other evidence from the company, and to interview ("depose") the person at the company who is most knowledgeable about your allegations. You can also request the custodian of records and get into issues of whether and how the company retains information about accounts and ownership.
But you should never start on the assumption that 1) you have to start with complete evidence; and 2) the company won't provide its records. Quite to opposite is true, if you get into a court of law.
Re: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
And let me just emphasize again: T&Cs cannot make illegal behavior into something legal. If they're stealing coins or negligently failing to protect coins or negligently failing to protect their domain, that is all actionable. The only thing the T&Cs could do is force the customer to file suit in a specific court or to use arbitration; they can't change the fact that Blockchain has a duty to its customers.
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
I can't think of any other field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."[/i]
You seem to fail to understand how blockchain.com works and how bitcoin works.
Blockchain.com is a tool, helping you handle your coins. The coins are not in their custody. It's not like Coinbase or Xapo wallet.
The coins are not in the wallet. They never are. They're "on the blockchain".
So it doesn't matter you have a wallet on blockchain.com if you or somebody else use your private key or seed, recover the wallet in - let's say Electrum and spend the funds from there. Obviously blockchain.com will also display them as gone.
So you didn't give your coin to them. And you may very well spend the coins yourself without telling them.
"5.2.1 General
Any Virtual Currency you purchase using fiat currency in the Wallet will be held in the Trading Account. All Virtual Currency held in your Trading Account will be custodial assets held on trust by Blockchain.com for your benefit on a custodial basis on trust for your benefit."
These are the July 2021 Terms; most of the disputes here would be under earlier T&Cs.
I do understand how Bitcoin works. I also understand how finance companies work; if there is any way for them to trade against your assets, they will do so. Otherwise, there's no value in any "wallet" business model. I know that Paypal and other companies are selling digital assets and not actual Bitcoins; while I don't know Blockchain.com's business model as well, I do know that one shouldn't assume ANY "wallet" company is blind to its users' assets.
Re: Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
I'm seeing a lot of posts about losing bitcoin on blockchain.info. It seems that everyone is ready to blame themselves, but is the company really running some kind of scam?
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
1. They're blockchain.com now.
2. Any, but really any website has the potential to steal your money or data. Just imagine a developer replaces the page for a couple of minutes with one that saves your seed into their database.
3. Indeed, the chance for [2] is small and most of those crying they've got scammed probably accesses phishing sites - sites looking identical with the original, but on different domain, definitely saving the seed in the hacker/scammer's database.
4. blockchain.com T&C basically tells that you use their website on your own risk, so I don't think that anyone can have a case against them. They, officially, don't do anything wrong and they won't answer in court because one gave his seed to a phishing site. Keep in mind that anyone who gets the seed or private key can spend the funds and blockchain.com is not needed for that operation.
Thank you for your prompt response.
Certainly if someone accessed a different URL or gave their keys to someone through phishing, that is not the fault of Blockchain.com/.info.
But what I'm seeing on this sub is a lot of people claiming coins simply disappear from wallets.
And let me just emphasize again: T&Cs cannot make illegal behavior into something legal. If they're stealing coins or negligently failing to protect coins or negligently failing to protect their domain, that is all actionable. The only thing the T&Cs could do is force the customer to file suit in a specific court or to use arbitration; they can't change the fact that Blockchain has a duty to its customers.
I can't think of any other people field where people think, "Eh, I gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to someone and they claim it's now gone, but I should have been more careful."
I was thinking about involving platform representatives in such situations, there anyway will be disputes that require a human to handle. But this would make the platform "centralized" at some level. We're brainstorming all possible solutions that wouldn't require human involvement.
Have you seen how Bisq works? I suggest try to look around how that whole application works. On the docs, there's also a mention of decentralized dispute resolution. Bisq is a decentralized bitcoin exchange that does not use smart contracts instead it uses a specific trading protocol. I believe if you take a look at it, it will somehow be able to widen your understanding if you really want to create decentralized escrow.Agreed, you would need to set up very clear conditions for the release of funds plus be prepared with a mechanism for dispute resolution. This doesn't need to be expensive; you can do it in-house if you have an experienced lawyer on your team.
I've been thinking of a similar project, and might suggest you also plan on incorporating reviews and reputation scores. People will need to understand they can't withhold payment for services which were actually completed - but they can leave a negative review or score to protect others in the future.
It would absolutely be enforceable by law.
In general, a contract requires only an offer, its acceptance, and consideration (gain or loss resulting from the accepted offer). The parties must also have a shared understanding of the terms of the contract (for example, if one thinks he's paying 1 million in Zimbabwean currency and the other thinks he's getting 1 million in dollars, there is no contract).
Bitcoin is valuable consideration. It's a tradable asset with a tangible (if fluctuating) value.
In general, a contract requires only an offer, its acceptance, and consideration (gain or loss resulting from the accepted offer). The parties must also have a shared understanding of the terms of the contract (for example, if one thinks he's paying 1 million in Zimbabwean currency and the other thinks he's getting 1 million in dollars, there is no contract).
Bitcoin is valuable consideration. It's a tradable asset with a tangible (if fluctuating) value.
Blockchain.info - Are they really stealing people's BTC?
I'm seeing a lot of posts about losing bitcoin on blockchain.info. It seems that everyone is ready to blame themselves, but is the company really running some kind of scam?
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
If they are, does anyone have an INFORMED opinion as to why customers would not be able to successfully take them to court or arbitration to recover their assets? FYI, "Blah blah blah, I bet they have T&Cs" is not an INFORMED opinion; a company can't use T&Cs to magically change theft into legal behavior.
I'm a noob here, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question ...
But why are these kinds of claims not being brought to court and/or arbitration? If someone has custody of your assets and their actions prevent you from accessing your assets, they have committed conversion - theft, as well as breach of fiduciary duty.
Blockchain.info/Blockchain.com is a real company with a real business registration. It can be sued. And given the value of the assets in dispute here, it should be taken to court/arbitration by you and anyone else losing more than one BTC or so.
Good luck trying that. Most people probably avoid legal battles because it will involve more costs, thus more money lost. Blockchain.info/Blockchain.com also do have terms and conditions, which they will use in their defense.But why are these kinds of claims not being brought to court and/or arbitration? If someone has custody of your assets and their actions prevent you from accessing your assets, they have committed conversion - theft, as well as breach of fiduciary duty.
Blockchain.info/Blockchain.com is a real company with a real business registration. It can be sued. And given the value of the assets in dispute here, it should be taken to court/arbitration by you and anyone else losing more than one BTC or so.
You have to be very sure that Blockchain wallet stole your funds and have extra funds to fight them in court.
Welp, you would need:
1) A lawyer willing to take such cases on a contingency (payment-on-success) basis; and
2) Money for court costs (very rough estimate, $1,000-2,000).
Depending on the T&Cs and laws of the jurisdiction where you file, it is possible that you would receive a money judgment against you if your claim is entirely frivolous.
But if it's NOT -- then people really shouldn't be assuming that private corporations can steal their assets with no recourse.
Lest you think I'm just blowing smoke here: I happen to BE an attorney willing to take such cases on a contingency basis. It looks like an area with a lot of need to me, and I can't stand the idea of companies committing theft through incompetence.
You have to be very sure that Blockchain wallet stole your funds and have extra funds to fight them in court.
[/quote]
Welp, you would need:
1) A lawyer willing to take such cases on a contingency (payment-on-success) basis; and
2) Money for court costs (very rough estimate, $1,000-2,000).
Depending on the T&Cs and laws of the jurisdiction where you file, it is possible that you would receive a money judgment against you if your claim is entirely frivolous.
But if it's NOT -- then people really shouldn't be assuming that private corporations can steal their assets with no recourse.
Lest you think I'm just blowing smoke here: I happen to BE an attorney willing to take such cases on a contingency basis. It looks like an area with a lot of need to me, and I can't stand the idea of companies committing theft through incompetence.
I'm a noob here, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question ...
But why are these kinds of claims not being brought to court and/or arbitration? If someone has custody of your assets and their actions prevent you from accessing your assets, they have committed conversion - theft, as well as breach of fiduciary duty.
Blockchain.info/Blockchain.com is a real company with a real business registration. It can be sued. And given the value of the assets in dispute here, it should be taken to court/arbitration by you and anyone else losing more than one BTC or so.
But why are these kinds of claims not being brought to court and/or arbitration? If someone has custody of your assets and their actions prevent you from accessing your assets, they have committed conversion - theft, as well as breach of fiduciary duty.
Blockchain.info/Blockchain.com is a real company with a real business registration. It can be sued. And given the value of the assets in dispute here, it should be taken to court/arbitration by you and anyone else losing more than one BTC or so.