So? You can do that with Bitcoin-Qt too. Create multiple accounts (not to be confused with addresses) and you can transfer as many bitcoins from one to other as often as you like for free. The reason it's free is that in neither case are you creating an actual transaction. This may come as a surprise to you, but CHASE does not, in fact, initiate a wire transfer when you transfer your money from one of your own accounts to another. Why would they? You're not actually moving your money anywhere. But that's not what you're doing here. What you're doing is the equivalent of transferring money from your CHASE account to another account at another bank. It doesn't matter that you own both accounts, you still have to pay the usual fee.

Just look at Schumacher's accident, which is potentially a life changing event for him and his family. Having his key only in his brain may mean his BTC are lost for ever. But having a plain copy in the safe is a different story.

I agree, plain keys in a physical security is going to be just as safe and much more reliable.

what has been the most common mistakes with people losing coins via paper wallets over the years?

i heard something along the lines of you can only fund the paper wallet once? or is it you can only redeem on a paper wallet once & any other coin not redeemed get lost forever?

Heh - yeah nice little wake up shock

In my case it was 2x account change and 1x manual payout ... sounding exactly like an account hack

I was like OMFGBBQ! ... and doubly so coz I couldn't find the actual email messages ... they were back a few days in my inbox.

Was a major sigh of relief to finally work out it was all indeed just 3 old messages for changes I did a while ago

What wallet address is that?  A lot of people use it... is it a mixer address or something?  There's like 11 accounts that use that same wallet address.

In any event, without your account name I can't look up what IP accessed the site.

Please activate payout lock in addition to 2FA. That would have prevented this as well.

I am holding off the chip transfer refunds atm and concentrating on those that can be found on the original sheet first. With a f-up I did yesterday, I guess I'll need to be doubly sure I didn't do any mistakes. I paid Bithav twice as I probably copied it twice from the responses sheet. Of course, I'd pay this back from my own pocket to be sure, but I would appreciate it if it gets returned. PM'ing in a moment.

dmo580:

Hmm... I think I had received an email from someone shortly after posting that there was an unclaimed 5.16 publicly. I remember sending the funds over after a couple of days when there was no other contestant to the unclaimed funds.... Well, I'll try to sort this out when I finish with this mess first.

Signing a message isn't possible if you sent the funds via MtGox as far as I'm aware. You need to send from a proper bitcoin client I think, because MtGox uses different sending addresses every time you send funds and doesn't give you access to old addresses.

I also don't think you'll be able to demonstrate it was your bitcointalk account that paid - if you had posted using the name dmo580 at the time that you'd sent payment, people would probably give the benefit of the doubt (if no-one else claimed it), but it's now so long after the fact that anyone could claim it was them. The fact that you pledged funds helps, but there was no confirmation that you'd sent funds from you or anyone else. Unfortunately ragin has lost the trust of many of the people involved in this group buy, so his testimony one way or the other will do little to help you I fear.

Your best bet is to let JohnK into your MtGox I think - if you're worried about security, just make sure your account is empty before you let him in. Withdraw everything, then all he can do is see your transaction history (and you can change your password afterwards). This would also protect him from accusations of stealing - if you post on the forum here that you have withdrawn everything, and then you PM JohnK your account details, he can log in and even if you claimed he stole everything afterwards, no-one would believe you. So he would be safe, and you would be safe. Only do this if he agrees to that procedure though.

Having said that, JohnK is probably the most trustworthy person on here, so personally I wouldn't worry too much about him stealing anything if I were you. The important bit is to get his attention. Once you have gotten his attention, be patient as he will probably deal with you last because there are many refunds to send, and the others are much simpler for him to process.  

Good luck!

scotjam

JohnK - if you're reading this, to my untrained eyes, the MtGox screenshot provided by dmo580 seems to corroborate his story that he paid 5.16 btc into the pot, and the transaction history of the escrow address seems to agree. Therefore I would recommend further investigation of this matter as either he is a sophisticated scammer, or he is honest and significantly out of pocket.

EDIT: JohnK - you may also be able to check that dmo580 did actually send a PM to ragin to verify he sent payment, with the transaction ID bc4ed5d44166100127dfacf04ffbdc4385e5c1fe19325118e3c4666ec3421156 - maybe that would be sufficient? I'm not sure to what extent you can access other people's PMs...

Who sent this:  https://blockchain.info/tx/bc4ed5d44166100127dfacf04ffbdc4385e5c1fe19325118e3c4666ec3421156 ?

I would normally say that you have lost your btc as you either need to a) demonstrate that you own one of the btc addresses that sent 5.16 to the group buy account by signing a message, or b) demonstrate that you own one of the bitcointalk accounts that bought 5.16 btc worth of chips. If you can't do one of those things, then the btc must have gone somewhere else, because as far as I'm aware, all of the btc that were received were accounted for.

Think about it - if you didn't have to do one of those things, then anyone could just post here and say "I sent 5.16 btc and then went on a business trip" - clearly we can't just start sending btc to anyone who says that...

Having said that, it seems there were four payments of 5.16 btc to the address but only three users that paid 5.16 btc on the spreadsheet, so you could be in luck (see transactions below).

In order to prove it though, I think you still need two things to happen in your favour:
1) The extra funds need to still be in the escrow address. If there are no extra funds in that address once all other payments are accounted for, your payment must have been refunded at some earlier stage.
2) JohnK should be allowed in to your mtgox account. This will allow him to verify that a payment was indeed sent from your mtgox account to the right address at a time that corresponds to one of the four payments below. Copy/pasted text or screenshots would not suffice here because you need to prove it is from *your* account that the payment was made, and screenshots are too easily doctored. In theory, anyone could check the blockchain (as I just did), notice there was an extra 5.16 paid that's not in the spreadsheet and claim it, so your mtgox transaction history is the only way to prove it was you who paid it, and this means someone trusted by both sides (JohnK) needs to be given your mtgox login details to verify.

Payments list: https://blockchain.info/address/1At75rKd6e8b7S7AAPzZ5V3kAzhkGYhnpU?offset=0&filter=2
Payments of 5.16:
https://blockchain.info/tx/48cfb99c9dbc1750b1319c6f2121302083359544acf42d8bb47a3852c41fcee1
https://blockchain.info/tx/6d969e3931b6bf6c78b32833767c30c3176bc67cd620b52523dba28da00c5c3a
https://blockchain.info/tx/cc6cbf7458df1fca4366bc1dbe2713d17b7aff3b3d916907491f3e879c00b37f
https://blockchain.info/tx/bc4ed5d44166100127dfacf04ffbdc4385e5c1fe19325118e3c4666ec3421156

one for 5.1 (just to show that the four 5.16's above are separate from GodFader's payment of 5.1)
https://blockchain.info/tx/bfa9d49db960463ec4ab4a981d6d3640249eb9d28e4ac313e6814beb04a1a7bb

Vycid - theoretically chip count should mean no one that is not on the list gets a refund. In practice though, if someone submitted funds, ragin didn't see them and JohnK ignored them and left them in the wallet... then they could be excluded from the chip count. In that case though, they should still have been sitting in the wallet.
It looks like there was somehow 5.16 left in the wallet after the chips were purchased that went to:
https://blockchain.info/address/16kbqtQNtLGvERubGS4QDmgLgv5fQAQcZy
This was the final payment out of the group buy wallet, and I'm not sure why it went there from the wallet.

Perhaps JohnK could clarify this - if those funds are sitting unclaimed in a wallet controlled by JohnK, then it might be worth logging into dmo580's mtgox account to verify that he did make the payment to the groupbuy address, as he may be the rightful owner.

scotjam

You should still be in the original spreadsheet. You are not. All 10000 of the chips were accounted for by people listed there.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiYcEqkgyjc_dGU0VzhHRGpOOUxudWkxdWpDN3RmbFE&usp=sharing#gid=0

Therefore I can't see how you are entitled to a refund.

If you can sign with one of the original funding addresses that might be a different story, but that means you should control an alias in that list.

Original post in this thread announcing the purchase? Transaction ID?

scotjam

post in thread and PM JohnK thanks!