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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 01/05/2013, 20:05:08 UTC
I made some investigations and figure out we are loosing more then 10% of income. So I would really appreciated...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/GeI5ke0BENw?feature=player_detailpage

Maybe I just picked a bad time to test Slush's pool.  "2% fees" they tell me.  I moved over from 5% pool, where payout was 0.02 / 9 hours for my little 1.1GH/s rig.  In 18 hours, I've earned 0.019.  So maybe this is 50% fees pool?

Leaving as soon as I can get back to my rig.   Angry

The more i look at it, im thinking the shares set up skews towards high powered miners. Still to prove it with some maths and tests. Last exam is on Tuesday. After that I can have a proper look.
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 01/05/2013, 20:03:05 UTC
Slush's pool is relatively popular. I'm a small miner, two 16 Mhash workers and one 6 Mhash worker, so i contemplate what being small means, how i am impacted. There are 5Ghash miners coming into existance now. there will be a time where they will reap huge shares until the difficulty adjusts to compensate for them. we had a 32 sec block? either great luck or a fast hasher.

once the difficulty adjusts, Mhashers will obviously become the slow guys, equivalent to the current CPU miners. But, considering the slow deliverys on the Ghash machines it will be sometime before the difficulty adjusts totally in their favor, probably 3-6 months.

The point is that with the fast machines coming into being we are going to see more and more blocks where we've been excluded from the payout or got a really small portion. But, the alternative is not mining. sure you could go to another pool where there is less competion for the share. But, small pools will have less of a chance of finding a block in the first place.

Maybe Slush needs to add more zeroes to the right of the decimal so we feel like we aren't mining for nothing. Or, we just accept that there will be some 0BTC blocks for us little guys. Personally, I like Slush's pool will hang in there. Someday there will be reasonable delivery times on Ghash machines and i'll be able to get some and claw my way back up to the level of the playing field. In the mean time anything that i get is better than not mining. I'm enjoying mining as a hobby, hobbies are rarely profitable.

What are you mining with? My i5 laptop can get 10+MHash! For a while I had a cluster of dual-core desktops I have access to (I don't pay the leckie and the ToU didn't prohibit it. Stopped when I got a "Theres some strange activity on your account" email from the admin) getting me 100+MHash and there can only have been 25 of them running at most!
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 21:06:49 UTC
Id guess it'd be sensible to change it to 10. Make it one per second, then he's unlikely to lose out! And reduces the load considerably
Yes but it is a numbers game. I lost out on last short block but got double out of this one... But it is demoralising see 0.00000000 I agree...

On 369 changing it to 10 would mean one hes still updating every second. So on the 35 second at most he would lost 10 shares.
On the value of a block that high surely its not a massive issue?
End of the day its his choice but i dont think 10 would really cost anything.
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 20:56:57 UTC
Darn - unlucky enough to have missed getting even a single share of that 35 second block....
Grin I got 369 shares into the tiny window thanks to low difficulty shares. Had I used high difficulty, I would have missed it too!

17771    2013-04-30 17:34:45    0:00:35    51130    369    0.17625050    233934    25.21561000    78 confirmations left

Yes but you might changed difficulty just a bit up to reduce Slush stratum load... If you got 369 shares in you are sending 10 per second. Way to much... 10 to 100 times too many... And it is a number game. Sometimes you loose sometime you win...

Id guess it'd be sensible to change it to 10. Make it one per second, then he's unlikely to lose out! And reduces the load considerably
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 16:22:03 UTC
Because you can say that miners aren't contributing for the first hour of a block, or you could say they are helping to find the block in less than a hour.  It's all relative, math, averages, etc.  Play the averages, it's your best bet.

If going off averages was safe then the time based reduction in value of shares isn't needed! Its there because people can take advantage of the system.
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 16:01:42 UTC
I dunno, sometimes an employee can drop things a whole lot better than I can  Smiley

If you're looking for an idiot employee send me an application form! Wink
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 15:55:07 UTC
I think the point is...

You may be able to make a little more by mining @ a pps pool during the beginning of slush's rounds, then coming on at the back end of a round on slush to get your reward for that block.

BUT, you won't be taking extra profits from everyone else @ slush.  You will still be getting your fair share.  As opposed to mining only right at the beginning of rounds, when you find a very short round, you actually make more than you normally would, and take a percentage of the share from the other miners on slush.

I could be way off base here, but that's how I interpreted it...

So you are saying a miner working for an hour before a block is found is not actually doing anything towards finding the block?
You are contributing little work but getting a big share from the block. The block has the same value no matter how many miners are involved, so those who have been mining continually with slush have to lose out!
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 15:26:00 UTC

I know why the functions are there, but its effects do seem a little harsh. Maybe it could be reduced a little? Otherwise those with massive rigs could switch do the opposite of the normal problem, run them on a PPS pool, then they notice its been 45 minutes here switch.

sadly your argument is the opposite of what it's meant to be, you just described the very actions that the score system are trying to deter. And if people were doing that he would have to make the functions even harsher.

The function is there to stop people from hopping after mining at the start. I am suggesting the opposite.
For example, the 6:43 block this morning. If you noticed that at 6 hours you can be reasonably confident that its not going to be too much longer. It could be, but statistically it is unlikely.
So you were mining on either a PPS or even another pool that’s just started a block. Statistically you would expect our block to finish before the average block length on your current pool. You hop over to us and on average are better off.

Now, to do this manually would be tricky since you would have to monitor multiple pools etc. But to script it would hardly be tricky.

Without looking at the maths its impossible to work out whether the gains would be worth the effort
I mentioned before, I am in the middle of exams at the moment and have little time to work on this.
Or to look properly at the algorithms in place (although I did do last week so am working from those memories).

Next week I will take a proper look. I might be completely wrong! But from the limited information I have it was something I considered feasible. Nobody (As far as I can see) has provided a quick explanation as to why not. organofcorti presented some links to documents which may well do this, but I currently have not got the time to read them properly. Hence I can't comment on them.
If there is a quick explanation please give it? If not I will take a proper look next week. If I still feel this is possible I will probably attempt to prove it by having two identical clusters of machines, one just mining slush and the other attempting what I have suggested.

Then I can report back with some actual figures to back this up, or admit to myself It doesn’t work out on paper as it does in my head.
If anyone does have the time now feel free to take a look!

That is the way it is though if your on a 4h block you can get 99% payout just being on the last hour.  There has to be some way of determining how long you were connected and calculate off that?Huh

You can get an even payout using pay per share! But the overall average payout is less because there is risk for the operator.

*Anyone having stratum problems with a client, just use getwork and the proxy (set your mining address to localhost or 127.0.0.1*
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 07:57:55 UTC

Probably shouldn't comment since I haven't had a chance to read those yet, but I did mention above about how I thought the system was outdated.
Judging by the hash rates in the top of those they aren't very recent.
If im wrong, please dont hang me! I'll apologise for my ignorance once I have had time to look at things properly.
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 07:37:13 UTC
Surely if the rounds been going on one pool for 45 minutes, Then no matter how long the round continues, thats 45 minutes where you are being paid on a PPS. You then earn a few shares from the pool with considerable value. If the round ends within a couple minutes, its not much but you're miners haven't lost much.
If its a few hours, then for the 45 minutes you have been making coins while everyone else here has shares which value is now void.

Now whether 45 minutes is the sweet spot I don't know, and without looking into the maths properly / how much you get per share at a PPS i can't be certain you would earn more, but It seems probable.

Will work it out later. Hopefully you are right and the numbers will prove me wrong!
I mine on a fairly low power system. 40Mhash. If my last share is 30s from the end of the round I seem to get twice as much as if its 2 minutes!
Ok, I am surprised that the scoring system works that way....

It means even if I am an ASIC miner if I have an outage of 90minutes due to a storm then I lose all my shares value. Everyone else profited from my shares. So down time is my enemy.

How does the score system work? (I am sorry for my ignorance!)

----------------------

The thing that came to mind though is the following after being surprised by this part of the score system:

If I run really high difficulty shares...let say 512...and I therefore submit larger shares but less frequently...is this the reason why I earn alot less?

I noticed if I submit very low difficulty shares with a very high frequency...my score seems to stay very low (closer to 100 than 1 billion. Yet, if I submit shares at 512 difficulty every minute, my score goes into the hundreds of millions over time. I assume from watching this that my delay in submitting very high difficulty shares is actually hurting me in my score. Is this correct? If so, then this deeply discourages using high difficulty...right? I can see this turning into an ASIC-festival of people submitting diff1 shares. With BFL coming out and delivering (a minute amount) of ASICs...I assume this is going to be a bandwidth problem in the future, correct?

I eventually decided to run at diff-1 because the super short rounds didn't give me much of any chance as an ASIC to submit the higher difficulty shares.

I find myself scratching my head as what is the right thing to do. It seems to discourage any lapse in submitting shares, even if only a minute between submissions.

I also understood that a low score in 4 digits is better than a high score in the billions. Correct?

Read this to see the exact formula's used. I haven't time to eleborate more on that now considering I have an exam in under an hour, but I shall work out the calculations later.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg50002#msg50002
It seems to me the formula was set when the difficulty was lower, making the share time also lower.
So now the round times are longer I think it could possibly be flawed. Without any actual maths put into this all it is is speculation so I could be completely wrong.

But yes, I have no idea how things effect ASIC. Best  to read that and work it out for yourself.

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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 06:43:07 UTC
Surely if the rounds been going on one pool for 45 minutes, Then no matter how long the round continues, thats 45 minutes where you are being paid on a PPS. You then earn a few shares from the pool with considerable value. If the round ends within a couple minutes, its not much but you're miners haven't lost much.
If its a few hours, then for the 45 minutes you have been making coins while everyone else here has shares which value is now void.

Now whether 45 minutes is the sweet spot I don't know, and without looking into the maths properly / how much you get per share at a PPS i can't be certain you would earn more, but It seems probable.

Will work it out later. Hopefully you are right and the numbers will prove me wrong!
I mine on a fairly low power system. 40Mhash. If my last share is 30s from the end of the round I seem to get twice as much as if its 2 minutes!
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Re: [8500 GH/s] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + UserDiff; ASIC tested
by
genpayne
on 30/04/2013, 06:17:31 UTC
Depends on how long the outage was. Score is an exp function so your earning degrade to 0. I'm not sure how long it takes. I have been thinking listing the shares on the stats page isn't the best metric. Have score and total score would be better since those are what your earnings are actually calculated on.

I know why the functions are there, but its effects do seem a little harsh. Maybe it could be reduced a little? Otherwise those with massive rigs could switch do the opposite of the normal problem, run them on a PPS pool, then they notice its been 45 minutes here switch.
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Board Beginners & Help
Re: Looking for someone to download an entire TV series and burn to DVD
by
genpayne
on 29/04/2013, 18:30:01 UTC
I also believe if the OP is a UK citizen then sending him iPlayer files would be more of a legally grey area.

I dunno, that seems pretty clear cut..

BBC Online Terms of Use 3.2.3 (d):
"you may not, and you may not assist anyone to, or attempt to[..], copy, reproduce, lend, hire,[..] broadcast, distribute,[..] transmit or otherwise use in any way BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part"

this ^^^^^

i live in the UK and sending him iPlayer files is just as illegal as selling weed on the street

The reason I would have claimed legally grey is that if he had a right to watch them anyway, but simply could not through a legal manor due to the IP restrictions.
If the files were downloaded directly to a USB the only part of that which could be mentioned would be distribute, and since I my offer was not to make profit (When you consider all my costs (postage, media, bandwidth etc..) I doubt very much a case would be made against me. Common sense and most courts would throw the case out.

However I was slightly wrong. The part of the Terms I would have mentioned is this
Quote
3.2.1 If you are outside the UK
You may not access, view and/or listen to certain parts of BBC Content (such as video or live television services) using BBC Online Services if you are outside the UK
Which does change things a little.
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Board Politics & Society
Re: Let the Machines do the Work (The end of Slavery)
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 21:33:42 UTC


Can't be bothered reading the whole thread, but

Anyone else thinking Matrix?
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Board Beginners & Help
Re: Should MFC girls take BTC?
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 21:30:56 UTC

Surely MFC would be pretty against that since you would more or less be bypassing them?
Im also against tax avoidance. You should fight the waste in the system! But you want it to be there! Imagine if there was no policing at all? Or Road upkeep!

But those points aside I think its fair to say bitcoin users match MFC's customer base quite well!
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Re: Need web hosting
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 20:57:40 UTC

If this isn't time sensitive then I can probably undercut other offers.
Im extremely busy atm and haven't used the technologies required in a while so couldn't work to a tight deadline.

I would also need the answers to the previous posters questions.
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Re: Want to Hire Who can set up Litecoin or Feather Coin Miner on VPS
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 20:48:01 UTC

If it has to be Windows I can't help.
But if you were happy with a Linux rig I can probably undercut an alternative offer.
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Board Beginners & Help
Re: Need : A Dedicated Website Moderator/Partner - Returns can Be Provided!
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 18:22:43 UTC
hahaha and they wonder why there's a noob section on here XD its like watching 2 special people fight Cheesy "im better than you, no im better than you... maybe but i have the bigger PENIS" keep going guys this is very funny

Agree completely Wink! But I have three exams next week! Makes for good procrastination.
I broke noob jail before this post even begun!
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png
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Re: Need : A Dedicated Website Moderator/Partner - Returns can Be Provided!
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 17:57:08 UTC

I do not own personal licenses (if those even exist), but I have access to them.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/136372637/CIA-Leaked-by-AntiSec-K-p1T-N-Pastebin-com
http://www.ghostleak.net/dump/CIA%20Docs1.txt

I think you will find I abandoned the rich parents suggestion in the next few words, because if so, why would you be here?

Constant updating? You mean occasionally adding in another link and upping a file? I make that a scp, an ssh and 30s with vim.
It hardly looks like something you update on a daily basis anyway.
You don't even host the images on your server!
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Re: Need : A Dedicated Website Moderator/Partner - Returns can Be Provided!
by
genpayne
on 28/04/2013, 17:04:08 UTC
Just give up! Personality traits you are right, i know next to nothing about.
However there is a little company called SAS who make some incredibly powerful products. They look at what you say as well as who to. Personally, I agree, its all bullshit, but I had little time to take a look myself.

Just manually ran a search on who.is now. At no point did it ask me to fill in a captcha. It also doesn't even appear to give me the registrar name!
Do you not know what whois actually is? The site is named after a protocol.
Give this a read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whois
If I remember correctly the scripts use a few specialist search engines as well as a whois query and then merge the results into a few lines of information.

The first two "leaks" I looked at from your site (picked at random) were AntiSec releases. I have not time to go through them one at a time.

"Penetration" skills are not the same as web development but if you were a respected member of any of those communities it would be piss easy to get some help! You wouldn't be putting up a ridiculous offer here.
You know, had you spent half the time you have spewing off this bullshit looking me up you might have learnt to keep shut. I don't put much effort in here to hide my real identity. Once you had my name the first page of google results lists me as a finalist for a National level cyber-security award.

Please go away. Even if any of those links are yours, ooh! You know a little SQL injection! Maybe cracked a WEP network or two! Hey who knows, WPS!
Long stretch.. rich mummy and daddy... you might have a Blackhole server somewhere! I'm Terrified! But if you did you'd have the cash to stick an ad up on a freelancing site for a proper developer. My point stands.

*Edit* You mention things that are hard to maintain? An Apache server with ~10 HTML pages, a few text files and plenty of broken links is hard to maintain? I could write a basic GET server, clone you're site and have it up on a VPS within a few hours tops!