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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 24/03/2014, 04:55:59 UTC
Can I adjust somehow the difficulty that I get? I thought that you could do it from the workers edit, but there is nothing there.

I'm not sure what you mean by adjust the difficulty.  That is determined by the bitcoin network.  If you mean adjust the amount of work you get, just power down your rig for part of the day.

There has been a possibility to manually set the (minimum) difficulty (UserDiff) of the shares sent to the pool. It has been replaced by (automatic) VarDiff some time ago.
This is something different than the network difficulty.

No. VarDiff will in time will optimize your difficulty for your miners to maximize your submitted shares and minimize stales.

I'm afraid the reason has nothing to do with stales. (And where there's said that submitted shares are accepted shares?)
In fact, VarDiff tries to minimize ;-) the number of shares submitted, trying to conserve bandwidth and server load for fast miners.
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 24/03/2014, 04:48:44 UTC
AND the last one was just found to be invalid.
24 seconds too late, apparently.  Nothing in the pipe.  Cry

So a different pool or someone found the block 24 seconds before us?

Or, better, some pool has found a block. Because their block is different from the one our pool has found.
They've found a block with the same block number ("height"), i.e. position in the block chain.
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Re: Proposal: Disallow Ads in Signatures
by
gourmet
on 22/03/2014, 12:57:36 UTC
I'd vote for keeping things as they are...

I find is useful that poeple who mindlessly rent their sigs as spam openly demonstrate that they can be bought dirt cheap and have no principles or conscience.
It tells alot about someone who does that, thus I consider it useful info.

Yes. I think it's the simpliest soluiton that works. Anyone (including me) can decide to ignore them. :-))
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Re: Drafts
by
gourmet
on 13/03/2014, 23:36:31 UTC
It would be fine when the saved drafts had context preserved (to which thread they belong), and a control (button) allowing to resume the posting.
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Re: Whining about Slush
by
gourmet
on 10/03/2014, 04:58:52 UTC
The first reaction to your original posting, just next to it, was this KNK's very good insight, with an advice to check your side first. You did not. That's all. Nothing more to be added.

For what it is worth I totally missed that post. Either way seeing that or from my brief exchange with Slush support the root cause was found by me, and I did contrary to what you believe. Deal with it or continue to be a dick. Nothing more to be added.

You have completely messed up the quotations in your post above. "Your" text is mine and the "mine" one is yours.

The root cause has been found by both KNK and by Slush, not by you. Instead of you. That's the problem you haven't admitted.
I'm only writing about what had been written here, nothing of it depeds on my "belief". Others can see who is the dick.
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Re: Whining about Slush
by
gourmet
on 09/03/2014, 21:16:24 UTC
First, you should probably have had a look at your logs and not send any support e-mail. When you haven't done so, you could at least have read the answer here in the forum that had answered your question thoroughly, and you would have no need to send any support request. But if you would have done the best thing yourself, i.e. look at the logs, there would be no need to post any question in this forum on the topic that had been answered many, many times, and make the members read it again and again...

First you should probably get a grip on typical human nature. Someone looking at stats where I show plenty of shares but no payout looks like something happened at the pool to me at first, and I argue to anyone else looking at the same thing. "members read it again and again..." will continue just as it has, you can bet on it. But the more intelligent of us are most likely to get to the root cause whereas the remainder say Slush is ripping us off and move on.

The first reaction to your original posting, just next to it, was this KNK's very good insight, with an advice to check your side first. You did not. That's all. Nothing more to be added.
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Re: Whining about Slush
by
gourmet
on 08/03/2014, 11:56:54 UTC
About six weeks ago there were a few people here dissing Slush and the pool. I ran an experiment and moved half of my hashing to BTC Guild. Almost exactly the same payout from both. Moving all back to Slush today.

I do have a small concern though, my payout on one block was 0. Where did you all say support questions should be posted for the pool, his Facebook account or something?

21760   2014-03-03 19:13:24   12:57:32   9099362387   78309   0.00000000   288773   25.12601933    confirmed

+1

+2
Support email answered in a few hours. I was offline for a period of time. I looked at my server and UPS logs and found I lost power for a few hours that I was not aware of.

But gee, I dunno about "Slush ripping us off" like all the whiners a month ago were saying. During my experiment when I reached the 0.01 payout on BTC Guild I was only at 0.0096 here on Slush. They knew best, for sure... ;->

First, you should probably have had a look at your logs and not send any support e-mail. When you haven't done so, you could at least have read the answer here in the forum that had answered your question thoroughly, and you would have no need to send any support request. But if you would have done the best thing yourself, i.e. look at the logs, there would be no need to post any question in this forum on the topic that had been answered many, many times, and make the members read it again and again...
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Re: [Feature added] Color besides usernames for Ignored by % of established members.
by
gourmet
on 08/03/2014, 10:44:51 UTC
Why was this removed? Or are you going to make me find the relevant post in this 12 page thread...?

Liam

Of course you should do so. (And, of course, that doesn't mean anybody is making you to do so. You should it on your own.) Twelve pages is not that much, and the action/reason is quite recent.

Users that waste others' time instead of their own asking questions already answered are candidates for ignoring from my side.

Users who insert coloured ads into their signatures are candidates for ignoring from my side.

You can guess twice what I do think about those who meet more than one point...

I would read through it, I was just on a mobile phone at the time and it would've been a pain. I've read through longer threads before!

As per the signature, well, I can't remove the colour, as I won't get paid. Unfortunately, it's my only source of BTC at this present moment in time.

Maybe I'll remove it when I get some money Wink

Liam

You could sure wait until you're on better equipment/connection, there was no need to hurry, was there?
And when looking at your "making you find the relevant post" by yourself, I don't belive too much "you'd read through it..." Sad Those are words only, you weren't too much inclined to do so, were you?

As per the colour, your signature would stay annoying even without it. The paid signatures should be removed/banned. Often together with the whole post that has no other function than to carry the ad.
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Re: [Feature added] Color besides usernames for Ignored by % of established members.
by
gourmet
on 08/03/2014, 10:00:28 UTC
ok if i ignore a person by mistake does the user receives any kind of notification like 'you have been ignored by blah blah user'Huh

No.

The person receives no notification even if you ignore them intentionally. :-)
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 03/03/2014, 05:23:07 UTC
Holy crap - a 35 second block - that has to be some kind of record!

naw, i saw a 20 second block once.

I remember a 14 second one. And it's not been too long ago.
And a 4 second one last year.

Shortest I ever seen was block 239570 found by slush on 2013-06-03 in just 2 seconds. Unfortunately it was invalid for us...

Blockchain.info says it's main chain...?
Acording to the link, it's ours, and there's no other block at that height.
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 02/03/2014, 23:44:48 UTC

By extremely short blocks, you can't account for mean orphan probability. By a two-second block, probability of orphan race is extremely high, near to 100% IMHO, as the time differences between the good and the orphaned block normally are of the same size as is the block duration by a 2-second block. So I think you must leave out your "60" multiplier.

Good point - the odds still work out at around 1 in 1000000, but as Terry Pratchett once wrote, million-to-one chances happen nine times out of ten. Smiley

I still wonder if the contents of some blocks can make the difficulty vary significantly from the assigned difficulty though. Perhaps there is a weakness in (double) SHA256 where hash collisions are more likely with certain values?
Maybe OrganOfCorti can help us out on this one? Any crypto experts around? Where's Bruce Sterling when you need him...

OOC is the man, he will elucidate....

Thanks for the vote of confidence guys, but I'm having trouble following the question and answers. Can someone boil post a precis of the question?

EdB666 tried to calculate the chance of invalid block (orphan race) by a two-second block.
He started with the chance of two pools finding a two-second block at once, being the chance of one pool finding a two-second block (1/1000) squared, i.e. 1/1000000. For the purpose of finding the chance to one being an orphan, he multiplied this number by the chance for any block to be orphan, which he found to be ~1/60.
I disputed that the last step couldn't be applied for extremely short blocks, as there the chance for orphan is much greater, near to 1, as the block duration approaches the usual time difference between orphan and regular blocks.
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 02/03/2014, 17:35:46 UTC
My understanding is that when two pools find the 'same' block, they are actually finding different hashes that meet the difficulty requirement (please correct me if I am wrong). In this case, given that the network difficulty makes this so that the expected block length is ten minutes, and invalid blocks are not that common (IIRC, we have seen two in the last month or so), I am quite surprised that there should be such a 'collision' on a two-second block - surely the odds of this happening would be vanishingly small, unless there is something intrinsic that makes the difficulty on certain blocks much lower than it should be.

Not only different hashes; each pool assembles its own block from the available transactions in the transaction pool according to its rules. So the "same" block can potentially differ between the two pools in the sense it contains different transactions.

The last idea is quite interesting. Can someone have enough will and power to check it? :-)
[edit] I'd sure not say vanishingly, but the chance is of course smaller for two pools at once than it is for one pool.

I would have thought that the probability of two people finding a sub 2-second block, at the same time would be the probability of one finding it, squared.
Assuming the block difficulty is correct, at the moment, we are on block 288579. 
I don't know how many 2 -second blocks there have been so to make the numbers easier, lets guess at around 300, which makes the odds of a given block being less than 2 seconds around 1 in 1000, or 0.001.
From the statistics on blockchain.info, it looks like there are around 2.5 orphaned blocks per day. The total number of blocks each day is tuned to be 144 (one every ten minutes), so dividing this by 2.5 gives around 60, or a 1 in 60 chance of there being such a collision on a given block.
if my maths is right, this means there is a a 1 in 1000 chance of each participant hitting a 2 second block, so multiply these together to get 1 in 1000000, and there is a 1 in 60 chance of there being a collision in this way, so the odds of this happening would be roughly 1 in sixty million. To put this in perspective, you have a 1 in 600000 chance of being struck by lightning, and this would appear to be some 100 times less likely!

Now, further up there, I made an assumption - that the block difficulty is 'correct'. As I understand it, the block difficulty essentially defines how many leading zeroes must be in a block's hash for it to be considered 'solved'. For example, the last block (found by us!) had a hash of 0000000000000000d69d39dbe4e025909fc30b4be52abfaccfec9315c497ac6c, the digits after the leading zeroes are irrelevant (which is what leads to block collisions in the first place, as two hashes can be found with the same number of leading zeroes).
The block itself is composed of the newly found hash, the hash from the previous block, the block number, difficulty and time, the pool's address, and all the transactions in that block (this is a simplified description), so my question is this - since the odds of two pools finding a 2 second block at the same time is so low (and I stick by 'vanishingly small' as a good description), is it possible that some blocks have more 'solutions' than are statistically expected - in other words, for some blocks, are there more solutions than expected with that number of leading zeroes?
For example, the hash above has 16 leading zeroes, in binary this is 128 leading zeroes, so if my understanding is correct, the odds of getting this out of any random hash would be 2^128.
Any thoughts?

By extremely short blocks, you can't account for mean orphan probability. By a two-second block, probability of orphan race is extremely high, near to 100% IMHO, as the time differences between the good and the orphaned block normally are of the same size as is the block duration by a 2-second block. So I think you must leave out your "60" multiplier.
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Re: [Feature added] Color besides usernames for Ignored by % of established members.
by
gourmet
on 02/03/2014, 09:13:27 UTC
Why was this removed? Or are you going to make me find the relevant post in this 12 page thread...?

Liam

Of course you should do so. (And, of course, that doesn't mean anybody is making you to do so. You should it on your own.) Twelve pages is not that much, and the action/reason is quite recent.

Users that waste others' time instead of their own asking questions already answered are candidates for ignoring from my side.

Users who insert coloured ads into their signatures are candidates for ignoring from my side.

You can guess twice what I do think about those who meet more than one point...
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 02/03/2014, 06:12:19 UTC
My understanding is that when two pools find the 'same' block, they are actually finding different hashes that meet the difficulty requirement (please correct me if I am wrong). In this case, given that the network difficulty makes this so that the expected block length is ten minutes, and invalid blocks are not that common (IIRC, we have seen two in the last month or so), I am quite surprised that there should be such a 'collision' on a two-second block - surely the odds of this happening would be vanishingly small, unless there is something intrinsic that makes the difficulty on certain blocks much lower than it should be.

Not only different hashes; each pool assembles its own block from the available transactions in the transaction pool according to its rules. So the "same" block can potentially differ between the two pools in the sense it contains different transactions.

The last idea is quite interesting. Can someone have enough will and power to check it? :-)
[edit] I'd sure not say vanishingly, but the chance is of course smaller for two pools at once than it is for one pool.
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 22:56:30 UTC
Holy crap - a 35 second block - that has to be some kind of record!

naw, i saw a 20 second block once.

I remember a 14 second one. And it's not been too long ago.
And a 4 second one last year.
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Re: [Feature added] Color besides usernames for Ignored by % of established members.
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 22:52:40 UTC
Puzzled here.  I never see any highlights on Ignore.

It is not in effect right now.

So when will ignore button highlight return? I'm missing it.
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 10:28:17 UTC
I'd actually like to hear more of what he has to say, and I don't see a need for your criticism. It's a forum and open discussion isn't for any member to regulate like this. That whole "think twice and don't oppose" comment you made, reminds me of someone I once know, real toxic bastard type... Seriously, why try to bully people out of presenting ideas?

I replied to binja9:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1976.msg5418642#msg5418642

As for gourmet, I understand where he's coming from. The question of "luck" get raised every ten pages or so, and someone has to answer them. Sometimes it takes longer to get the idea across, and it get's a little frustrating because I have (or someone else has) had to explain this before, many times. If the blame lies anywhere, it's in me being a poor teacher.

I should probably write up something permanent somewhere that just addresses pool luck, and that people can link to whenever luck gets raised.


You're not poor teacher at all. You're one of the good teachers not only of this forum. One of the best ones, I'd say. There are just some bad learners. :-)

(And for anybody who would try to tell that there are no bad pupils, just bad teachers: No. That's a cheap populism. There are both good and poor teachers and both good and bad pupils.)
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 09:27:38 UTC
I'm also afraid to tell you that 'luck' does not exist - you can calculate probability but not luck (unless someone could post the calculation for the likelihood of luck existing)...

'Luck' exists, silly! If you earned more than expected, you've had good 'luck'. If you earned less than expected, you had bad 'luck'.

One certainty is that as the pool grows then so does the traffic into servers and it doesn't matter how much hashing goes on, it has to get to a server and 800-825TH seems to be the current 'lucky' number range.

No, the traffic problem is what vardiff solves.

Of course luck doesn't exist it is a convenient word to cover bad judgement, calculations or events we choose not to understand or have control of.

If you expect to earn  X and you earn Y then a force has acted upon X to move its value to Y - an event, not luck.
Either way your expectation/calculation was wrong.

I'm sorry, but you are an idiot.

Please don't push your ignorance again and again.
(When OoC tells you that you're wrong, think twice and don't oppose. Because you can be sure you are wrong.)

I'd actually like to hear more of what he has to say, and I don't see a need for your criticism. It's a forum and open discussion isn't for any member to regulate like this. That whole "think twice and don't oppose" comment you made, reminds me of someone I once know, real toxic bastard type... Seriously, why try to bully people out of presenting ideas?

He had presented & repeated his bad idea for several times. He has been correcred more than once by someone who differs from him in that he understands the subject. He didn't stop bitching.
If you read the forum regularly, you should know already.

[edit]
And, please, don't tear parts of sentences out of the context. I'm pretty sure that my two sentences in the parentheses at the end of my post make very good sense when taken in whole.

[edit2] Your reminiscences are your problem, not mine... Smiley
(And when they are based on your tearing out of context, they are really no problem for me.)
In fact, your reminiscences talk about you, not about me...
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 08:34:44 UTC
I'm also afraid to tell you that 'luck' does not exist - you can calculate probability but not luck (unless someone could post the calculation for the likelihood of luck existing)...

'Luck' exists, silly! If you earned more than expected, you've had good 'luck'. If you earned less than expected, you had bad 'luck'.

One certainty is that as the pool grows then so does the traffic into servers and it doesn't matter how much hashing goes on, it has to get to a server and 800-825TH seems to be the current 'lucky' number range.

No, the traffic problem is what vardiff solves.

Of course luck doesn't exist it is a convenient word to cover bad judgement, calculations or events we choose not to understand or have control of.

If you expect to earn  X and you earn Y then a force has acted upon X to move its value to Y - an event, not luck.
Either way your expectation/calculation was wrong.

I'm sorry, but you are an idiot.

Please don't push your ignorance again and again.
(When OoC tells you that you're wrong, think twice and don't oppose. Because you can be sure you are wrong.)
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Re: [850 TH] Slush's Pool (mining.bitcoin.cz); TX FEES + VarDiff
by
gourmet
on 01/03/2014, 08:31:37 UTC
From Facebook:

Slush's pool
37 minutes ago
Good news, we have setup a new EU stratum server today as a replacement for the original one.

Now we need to wonder, would someone replace something if there wasn't a problem with it? Backstage issues, long blocks, yup...

I don't care because I'm swamped with work, haven't been checking often. Hopefully we see the problem lifted and shorter rounds start happening...

can you please show us with X's and O's how back end  hardware causes long blocks.

my request of u is as loony as...

Yeah isn't it funny how they repair the server, then the rounds get short and our luck improves drastically and immediately?!

Why do I feel like so many people are in denial about the fact technical issues are very likely tied to our long blocks? Lot of IT guys in this thread or what? Afraid to consider exploration of the unknown grey area we cannot see? Try just for a moment to imagine like you don't have all the answers, and that maybe the number sold to us as "luck" does not represent factors of pure un-corrupted chance probability. Pay attention next time our luck takes a major nosedive, usually we get an announcement about a technical issue that was being resolved, or a DDOS attack being fended off. I'm fine with it, no plans to leave the pool, but I think too many people here reach for their rifles when people ask questions or make suggestions- what's the harm in a reasonable hypothesis about a backstage technical issue impacting our performance? People come here bitching about luck, but luck isn't truly "luck" if it's caused by a technical issue.

Anyways, now that they resolved the technical issues I am glad to see our "luck" is back to where it should be. On the other hand, if the server shits the bed then you could say it's bad luck, I mean for a server to just crap out like that, or the way the pool always chokes when we approach 900TH. In that sense maybe it is all luck, but if the system is stable backstage we seem to have some very nice runs, and maybe you could argue not having technical issue for a week is a matter of good luck. Happy? See, I argued both sides in terms I can even agree with.

It's just the oposite, in fact: People come here bitching about "reasonable hypotheses" that are no reasonable at all.