Looks very nice. Are silver coins always this expensive (~ $300, where the actual silver is worth ~ $40)? Do we have any guarantees that they didn't save the private key somewhere?

The premium is quite high for silver coins and they are not encrypted keys or multi-signature keys. How long have these been for sale?

Hi,

I'm wondering if the OP or someone from Alitin Mint can help me. I am failing to see how this is much of an improvement from tamper proof holograms. I am not trying to cause drama, I simply am wondering if I am thinking about it wrong. I know since I also make physical cryptocoins this will likely look like an attack of some sort, but I am genuinely worried about the security of your product and the claims you are making of how they are more secure than original physical Bitcoins with tamper proof holograms. I have spent many hours lately doing different experiments on how to improve security on the original design of physical Bitcoins, but I don't see this as a very good solution.

I think you guys protected the coin from the obvious... radiation techniques due to the engraved private key, but it seems to me the only line of defense against retrieving the private keys of these coins is the hologram on the coin case. Which as we know can likely be removed showing no to little signs using acetone, just like the older coins that you claim are inferior to yours. That defeats the whole sales pitch here.. minus the very attractive coin artwork. The process a bad actor could take is:

1. Have a replica of the plastic coin case made in China for $1-5 each
2. Remove the coin from the packaging and retrieve the private key from the edges of the coin.
3. Remove the hologram from the original coin case using acetone showing no to little signs of intrusion.
4. Print new labels, QR code, whatever is inside the coin case and put them in the new replica case.
5. Place the coin back in the replica coin case you had made and seal it.
6. Place the hologram on the coin case back where it should be like nothing happened.

I know Alitin says "you can send a picture by email and find out if it is counterfeit or not". However, I have a hard time believing that they do not do this by checking a certain security feature they added to their hologram. This is something that can be easily implemented in the old design of physical cryptocoins.. just a coin and a hologram.

I am just failing to see how this is any better. It would require a little more work to tamper with than a normal physical cryptocoin, but it is still doable IMO. Even at today's prices there is likely enough incentive (cost versus reward) to do this... imagine when Bitcoin really goes to the moon. Please prove me wrong, the reason for my post here today is purely academic and I wish Alitin Mint all the best. I hope I can make it to the Texas Bitcoin Conference to talk about this with you guys face to face and in depth. I only live a couple hours away so I think I can come.. I just have to see if I can get off work.

Thanks

Has anyone cracked open a random one to see if it has the private key?

Does any one do these any more as Mike has now stopped creating physical Bitcoin and where can I get them?

Hmm, this does look and sound like well designed products.
I do have a few issues/questions that I have misgivings about though.

*I'd like to hear some more info and opinions on the security of the engraved privkey, and also the results of attempts to read privkey off the coin rim without breaking the seal.
    Couple simple tests i can think of:  
    Bouncing various ultrasonic/electromagnetic/light frequencies  off the coin edge at various angles (and temperatures) to see if can get a readable image through the shielding material.
    Reading magnetism/diamagnetism around the coin edge (would a hdd head pickup anything for example?)
    Physically deforming the plastic or shielding itself to read past it.

* The provided info here and on the website is lacking a lot of important information such as; any real technical details, any external references or info to backup the claims of  compliance with  regulations and licensing (as a money transmitter). So all were given to go on is their word. Being a highly skilled professional gynecologist myself, I'm often telling clients that they can trust me when i say I'm qualified.

* Nowhere have a found mention of what country they are located-in/shipping-from, nor a single mention of international shipping info.
   I'm able to deduce that they are located in USA by using my advanced knowledge of international geographic locations to recognize some of the names given at ( https://www.alitinmint.com/alitinmint/Home/About )
   [rant] And also by the fact that they don't seem to comprehend the Internet is worldwide (sorry), so advertising a product on the internet without providing this important country/shipping infomation is incompetent a best.
   Even slightly insulting that they did not even consider how seriously annoying it is for anyone (except own countrymen i guess), wasting a lot of my time.
   That said, USA is not the only culprit of failing to consider anyone past thier own patriotic ignorance, failing to provide required details on website (though by far the worst offender i'd say). I have seen sites from my home country and other international companies websites fail to clearly show locations and shipping info, though rarely have I been abl to find the locations country at all and any international shipping information  at all. [/rant]

So while the coin looks great astheticly, and the security could be acceptable if done correctly, theres no actual technical details provided to even speculate on security of physical coin, theres no references to prove any trust in the company and its claims at all, and whilst i dont care for reculatons complience and liscencing so much, i do care about the security of the key at manufacture, do they have a database with all the private keys on the coins whcih they will steal when it suits them? Wll the lackingl details and narrowminded incompetencies of the website don't seem very preffesional, and that says a lot more than a pretty coin and plastic case does to me.
The coin/case does look very well designed and thoughtout though, i'd prolly still pickup one myself,  just to test myself which would likely end in breaking it open and transfering coins out for sience (or  for security if needed).

Keep in mind that there are other methods of "gaining access" to something without actually opening the container. Ever heard of ultrasound as one simple example?

Your second point I am not sure I follow. You say "if" but I'm not sure I read that that is what happens when opening the case.

Your third point is concerning counterfeit coins. Tampering and counterfeiting coins are two separate topics.

Your last point are just claims. I'm not saying any of the claims aren't true, but until it has been proven to be true as in the claim about the case being "tamper-proof" and the comment the radiologist made concerning current technology, are simply just that, claims without proof publicly given.

Hopefully someone can give these coins a test to different tampering mechanisms to prove or disprove said claims. As I've said, talk is cheap.

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

someone offered me 20btc a couple post up. does that mean he offered me $1m premium? in your eyes i guess so..

as far as i can tell this coin has rarely been sold for cheaper than what i'm offering 28.9 and negotiable. use the search forum feature. (the recent ones in the 15btc range were scams and are not counted)

There are acid tests, but you could also measure the coin's weight in troy oz. Using the normal volume of silver per mass this could be established. Of course I am no expert in this area but not having access to the coin at any point prior to redeeming removes any verification of the coin being actually silver.

I'm sure there are other way to determine this.

LOL, a 10 btc coin and your asking 30BTC..

anyone who buys these any pays your prices are insane or not thinking about the future..

when bitcoin is worth 100K each, and your holding this 10 btc coin worth a cool million it will feel good i assume.... BUT how in the world  are you going to get $2 million premium when you want to sell it..


Its never going to happen!

Good luck though!

How does one actually verify that the coins are indeed silver? Without access to the coin itself given the case needs to remain closed how does one confirm this?

Not sure if I would ever claim that something is "Tamper-proof" as nothing is tamper-proof if attackers are given enough time and resources to find ways around security mechanisms.

Other than that this is an interesting concept/project.

 

Are they asking 10 or 100 times what some think it's worth?  I'm sure some here would love to get it if it was super cheap, but then again it's supply and demand.  All silver ones sound good since plated things often regarded as cheap I think.

Thanks. I will update the photos ASAP.