Do you mean per coin? If so can I please have some of what you're smoking?

I somewhat agree if you're talking about the value of the available float at and shortly after (2-3 months max) launch. If the pump goes off as predicted by several people here, it should initially soar in value. All while significant amounts of the initial float are tied up in "growth accounts", which seem to me to be the "prime controller" equivalent in NeuCoin.

I personally am hoping for initial performance to look something like Auroracoin....a chart that looks like a hockey stick will be just fine with me.


http://s22.postimg.org/6b7jb5dn1/aurora.jpg

Torr, I've always thought of you as one of the more credible people in the NeuCoin forum. Not that that amounts to anything, but, disagreeing and asking relevant questions does not equal trolling. People seem to think that any question they don't like is "trolling".

My exposure to bitcointalk is this thread and I've read through (but not responded) most of the Garza/GAW/Paycoin scam thread. I agree, there's likely some trolling, as there are in all Internet forums, however, there have been many valid questions asked here that haven't been answered. I'd like to see some answers to the althouse stuff posted the other day. Instead, it was completely ignored. That should concern people about NeuCoin.

Also, over the Summer, very little response to what seem like useful questions, and then all of a sudden, when the beta was released, Sandrine comes here and announces. That post was a bit of a turnoff because it started off somewhat insulting and it seemed like she was gloating about delivering something. Something that was late.

As far as Ehtereum goes, I haven't looked at the threads here about it. However, I will say this. I'm a somewhat technical person and I attempted to install the command line tools, GETH, and ETH on various different computers with different OS's. Not one install worked. I attempted to troubleshoot for a while and got bored with it. I know very little about Ehterum, but perhaps things like that is why they're no longer responding here. I can't see something like that doing well long-term if they're not able to make it more user-friendly.

Everyone seems fond of saying that, but it's really not. There are many IT projects that are completed on time and within budget. Particularly things that deal with compliance-related concerns.

In the case of Neucoin the delay was due to 1) either complete and total incompetence, or 2) some other unknown reason(s).

I suspect that it wasn't exclusively reason 1 because what they're doing is not really that significantly different from existing things out there. It could be that a lot of the core team are doing this as a part-time job, but even still, they're not really inventing the wheel here. What was the point of assembling the superstar team if not to get things done on time?

Reason 2 makes much more sense to me, particularly when you think of this as a big PnD. More time needed to get the exchanges up and tune the communication from those involved that we will see huge amounts of upon launch. Remember, the audience here is not really the main target. For something like this to really succeed, they have to bring people into Neucoin that have never been involved in crypto. Even those who bought into the pre-sale, if they happen to sell during the price spike, can lend further support to the underlying message that you *might* get rich quick if you buy a little of this stuff. In the meantime, you can tip Marilyn Rose for some bullshit song.

Great! I like thought exercises.

Here's a thought exercise for you. Do those of you from Neucoin who are coming here and making all of these new ids really think you're convincing the community here?


Bernie Madoff was rich, smart and well-connected. He had a reputation to protect. He was also a scammer and is in prison.

Allen Stanford was rich, smart, and well-connected. He had a reputation to protect. He was also a scammer and is in prison.

Maybe you should think this through a bit more. Being rich, smart, connected, and having a reputation does not preclude scamming. In fact, I suspect that many of those Venn diagrams would show significant overlap.

As someone else said a while back, "since when do rich people not want to make more money?"

You might also want to consider as part of your thought exercise that if this is a scam, that perhaps many of the people listed on Neucoin's site are potentially victims rather than participants.


How anyone compares here to these people is irrelevant and likely not provable.

Again, you might want to think this through. It's as if you are saying that simply because a bunch of people are rich and successful that we need to follow their lead and do what they do? I know a lot of rich people that are complete dumbasses.


I think the point of a for-profit business in many cases is to generate an acceptable return as quickly as possible. Particularly if you're an angel investor in new technology.


I've been open here about my involvement. I've said that I don't believe this is a straight-up take-the-money-and-run scam. I do think it is likely a PnD. I don't necessarily see PnD as a "scam", but different people will view that differently. Unethical sure, but everyone has different moral compasses. I suspect that a well-orchestrated PnD that's going to make these people a quick couple of million, with very little to no upfront risk would be exactly the type of thing they'd be interested in. These people could give two-shits about the long-term success of Neucoin, when they make their money on the price spike within the 1st two months.

Not exactly. My understanding is that if you cancel before the term is up you lose the staking rewards. You would get your principal back.

Like I've said from the beginning posting here. I've always felt this is likely a PnD. The questions that I'd like to have answered are "how many insiders are there?" and "how much will they need to earn before they let the value crash?"

I count 50 "insiders" on the website, but let's assume 25 more. There can't be too many or things would be too diluted. Probably impossible to know how much money they'd need to make, but it would probably need to be significant, leading to an initial high price spike for Neucoin. If they haven't cashed out by the time the survey coins are released, buy the survey coins that appear on the market using pre-sale funds to create artificial demand, and then do the big dump of the 4% sale-restricted coins.

Given the way things are structured as has been mentioned here it will likely be hard to pin much of this on anyone from the Neucoin team.

Another reason why they don't care much about what bitcointalk thinks about them, and why Sandrine, after missing every commitment made, comes here and gloats about being late, is that bitcointalk isn't even close to their target market. Their target market are people who are new to crypto, and who think that the bunch of rich people that are listed on the Neucoin website are onto something, and want to get in on part of the action.

Coming soon, they'll announce an exchange that will be ready at launch. That piece really has to be there for any of their plan to work.

My guess is all the people who lock their coins up in growth accounts end up bag-holding. New people buying in upon release will be convinced that their investment will grow that much in those time periods. What they'll fail to understand is that it's not the value of the investment that's growing, it's the number of coins that are growing. The people locking in for long-term growth accounts will also be creating a lot of the demand on the exchanges as they sink more money in.

• 3 months, 20 %
• 1 year, 100 %
• 5 years, 1600%

Something like that is what the growth accounts earn.

Very few things motivate like greed. I can see a ton of people going for the 5 year accounts, and even more going for the 1 year accounts, effectively making those coins worthless. Many of the pre-sale idiots will be all over that. If people cash out early they lose all staking rewards. I'd also expect "technical difficulties" that delay people who decide to cash out of a growth account early, slowing their ability to dump them on the market.

My guess, if this is a PnD, is that it plays out mostly before the survey coins are released, so the high will be reached sometime before roughly 10/31. In other words, I'm sure they expect that both supporters and detractors have survey coins coming, and would rightfully expect that a bunch of survey coins will be immediately dumped.

Expect a ton of communication all of a sudden from the Neucoin team, seed, and angel investors upon release and throughout the 1st month.

Also, another very real possibility is that the pre-sale funds will be used to buy up the survey coins that hit the market once they're distributed, creating an illusion of demand. This might be what happens, because then we'd be looking at 4% of all of the sale-restricted stuff being available for dumping at that point in time.

I'm thinking they're not going for a .01, .05, or even .15 value...they're swinging for the fences during the 1st month.

Don't know and don't care. It's their forum to do with as they wish.

Were it my forum, and I were really trying to shake up the crypto world as they're proposing, I'd encourage both positive and negative discussion and respond professionally to it.

I'd also pay extra careful attention to my integrity. If I said I was going to do something then I would do it. I'd answer questions that people have posed, promptly. I'd update people when I said I would update them.

But that's just me; integrity matters in my business...

Oh, I understand why they banned him. I just don't agree why it's banworthy. If they're legit then there's nothing to worry about from someone posting their sentiments and an email address.

For those who missed it, here's what primeval posted:

http://s30.postimg.org/7bi07xijx/pmsnc.jpg

I don't really see what's banworthy about that? He's just indicating what he'll do given that the coin isn't released by 9/30 without a refund or if a half-assed product is released. I'll be doing the same given exactly the same conditions that primeval mentioned. That shouldn't bother anyone at Neucoin if they are acting in good faith.

I tend to agree with the gross negligence part. Perhaps complete and total incompetence would better describe the Neucoin team.

I stopped replying in the Neucoin forums because those people are either sock puppets, or as dumb as mud. James is about the dumbest person I've ever encountered on any forum since the beginning of the Internet.

I'm still not clear why this is a big deal? If you work you should be compensated. I'm also not sure why anyone would expect 100% impartiality from a moderator? I don't...I expect you guys to lean positively towards the project, however, realistically I think you have to keep that in check to some extent.

In other words, give good, well-reasoned arguments supporting why you believe what you believe, and why you believe, despite failing to meet pretty much every other commitment that has been made, that the NeuCoin team can be trusted going forward?


But not in this case.

Not discussing the merits of the argument, throwing up one's hands, and saying "I don't trust you, therefore no one should" is the Internet equivalent of of a 6 year old saying he's taking his ball and going home. This doesn't build credibility...in fact, it simply confirms what people already think about NeuCoin.

I think what you and James, and the entire Neucoin team, all fail to realize at the moment, is that in the eyes of the sliver of the crypto community that are interested in following this, I (and others such as torrgeek and windtalkers) are the most credible people involved in the discussion about Neucoin at the moment. Until you guys (meaning the whole Neucoin team) start addressing the greater credibility/integrity issue things are not likely to improve.

I think it is too, however, for an investment to be acceptable or profitable it doesn't have to be perfect, and it doesn't have to be a home run. In fact, the home runs are somewhat rare to non-existent.

Hey, I can laugh with you guys, right?

If NeuCoin ends up being a scam, I'm going to suggest that the mascot "Tippy" be retroactively changed to the Huggle Bunny:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HySaK9kj7y8

(From my kid's favorite cartoon)

Thank you for the sentiment.

Things like this are kind of like lottery tickets. If you lose you lose a little, and if it hits you win big. When I first got involved in bitcoin everyone thought that was a scam, and loads of people still do. People were peeing themselves when it was trading for $1 on MtGox a few years ago, and when it hit $30 people were going nuts, and you even saw news stories on Yahoo! about it. People used to freak out in those early days about the cost of mining with video cards exceeding the value of the coin ("it'll never ROI" was a common lament then, as it is now that ASICs are around). If only we were still worried about the electricity to run a video card. I never really understood someone mining and expecting an immediate ROI, then or now.

The bitcoin that I still have left were basically free given today's prices. I sold most when the value hit $700 (I never thought it would go to over $1000+ when it did) a while back. It was a complete and total windfall. While I hate losing money, even on a small bet like NeuCoin, it won't kill me. I only put in an amount that I can tolerate losing. I will be the guy who pursues them legally, across boundaries, if that becomes necessary, but I don't think it will.

I really don't think NeuCoin is a scam (unless PnD is considered a scam). I think it might be a PnD, and I don't see PnD as a scam, as long as you hit the "D" part right, and I wouldn't want to be the guy doing the "P" part. I knew going in that there were some questionable people involved, but there are some mitigating factors. In any event, part of the reason I bought in is simply for the contact list of some of the people involved (if they're really involved). If anything is likely to drive value post-launch that is.

Comparing NeuCoin to other known scams, I just don't see it. Gawminers was clearly a scam from the beginning that set off all kinds of alarms. Moolah was also very clearly a scam from the get go. I can't remember all of the others at the moment, but most seem fairly obvious.

I knew the risk going in, so no reason to feel sorry for me.

Here's my latest post, as I think it's the most likely one to be taken down:

James said: No one should trust you since you've admitted that your ghosting the forum. I certainly don't trust your opinion.

(keep in mind, this is a moderator)

My response:

Right...

James, I think you brought the mental equivalent of a knife to a gunfight.

There's no rule here that says I have to sign up with my primary email address. Nor is there a rule that says I have to identify who I am. Why would I?

I don't know who you are or what you do, nor do I know who windtalkers is or what he does, or any of the other people participating in the forum. That's not a requirement to participate here.

It's definitely not the role of a moderator to challenge my desire to remain anonymous, nor is it within the bounds of your role to discredit my opinion.

Again, I'd really like to see you guys get more on track here and have a better discussion about the real issues.

Nope, I haven't spent much time here, but I can see what you're saying. I take anything said on any forum with a bucket of salt.

Yeah, I'm not real sure why this thread seems to think that Darteous and James are shills? I'm probably the person coming down hardest on Neucoin at the moment and I don't think either of them are shills.

A shill is someone paid to give unconditional support, and generally people aren't aware that they are a shill.

They're moderators, whose jobs is to keep the forum working smoothly. If Neucoin wants to pay moderators, and is open about it as they've been, then that's their choice. Moderator does not equal shill. To some extent moderators are going to likely lean towards support of the project, but I don't see "shill" in any of what either of those guys are doing.

I do think you could make a case for some of the others posting unconditional love and support either being team members or fake accounts. Not sure, and it's impossible to say.

LOL

His response about being upset with me is longer than his response to Sandrine's update where things completely changed and the dates evaporated.

Meh...losing interest. About to go to my kid's swim lesson.

Like I said, if it were a straight scam they would have run with the money and shutdown. It's more likely incompetence, poor project management, or both. Hanlon's Razor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

At this point I'm hoping it launches at some point, shoots up to .02 and I double my investment. I have to think there are at least a few greater fools than I....

That's just it, I don't "trust" anyone involved in crypto. "Trust" is not a necessary component for a profitable investment.

idifin from that post on Neucoin's forum.

I'm not much for forums, so you're not going to see me here much or on the Neucoin forum for that matter. Mainly posting here so that the Neucoin people don't say that I'm just rizzlarolla posting under a different name on their board.

I've been involved in Bitcoin since early 2010...back when you could still mine with video cards. In the interest of full transparency I put about 10 BTC into the Neucoin presale. It might be gone now, but I was aware of the risk going in.

Honestly I don't think Neucoin is a scam. They went to a lot of trouble to be appear very professional, and in the whole grand scheme of things didn't take in that much money to justify everything it appears they did. The "scam", if there is one, could come as a pump and dump. But a lot of things are pumped, especially in crypto, and I'm not against riding a pump and dump for some quick profits. I've done that with a few other coins and generally have sold profitably, but much earlier than I should have.

e.g., Gawminers was obviously a scam from the beginning, and by the time Paycoin came along I really couldn't understand why people were still engaged. I bought some equipment early on from Gawminers. I received it, but was very skeptical about how they ran their business and pretty quickly stopped buying from them. I actually got a several thousand dollar miner for free from them at one point.

Neucoin doesn't have the single, charismatic leader that is so often there with large scams. I feel like Neucoin suffers a bit more from incompetence than anything else.

What bothers me about Neucoin is the veneer of professionalism coupled with lack of follow-through. I would have been fine if after the pre-sale if they had said, "hey, you won't hear from us for 4 months because we're going to work hard on making this happen". Instead, there were several promises about updates that haven't been met, and when updates were provided they really didn't give much new useful information.

My point of the post on the Neucoin forums is that perception is often reality. Detractors, whether right or wrong, will always seize upon evidence of incompetence, of which there appears to be plenty.