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Why do you keep hearing mining is unprofitable?
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Another sockpuppet that doesn't understand math...
Perhaps you could use your condescending tone to enlighten us as to the profitability of it?
With the expected spike in difficulty, and the shipping time of the ASICs out there, how is one to make a profit?
Also an answer comprised of more than 1 line would be great.
Are you dense or just dumb? Nobody is going to be able to explain it, because it if was explained so easily everyone would do it, difficulty would skyrocket and everyone would get less.
You have to do research on your own, get electricity at a better rate, buy miners cheap and now, never pre-order like a fool. Whatever the hell it is you can do to give you an advantage over everyone else. Only that will make you money mining, and only you are going to be able to figure that out. If you find that too hard, just buy coins.
Web hostility is always useful. Thank you.
I've been looking for miners available immediately, and could only find really low gh/s miners. The only powerful ones I could find (say 500gh/s and above) will ship Jan 2014 minimum... except for one, not sure about that.
Increase in difficulty in Jan and Feb, combined with the shipping times, render it useless for someone who doesn't already have a miner.
Also, this is FORUM. If you don't want to take place in it, don't. Thanks for playing.
Why do you keep hearing mining is unprofitable?
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Another sockpuppet that doesn't understand math...
Perhaps you could use your condescending tone to enlighten us as to the profitability of it?
With the expected spike in difficulty, and the shipping time of the ASICs out there, how is one to make a profit?
Also an answer comprised of more than 1 line would be great.
Sorry for the condescending tone, but I have already explained this in several threads many times over. I'll copy and paste from a previous post I made a few days ago. I am planning on making a website explaining this information because it seems too many people are misinformed.
Also, Scrypt mining is now directly related to Bitcoin as sites like middlecoin.com exist where you hash Scrypt directly for Bitcoin and not some shit alt-coin.
I will probably buy 3 Used amd 7950 for around 200$ each in Sweden new 7950 cost around 400$ so it's tio much i already got à CPU ram etc i Will only need to buy a motherboard and some cables
I got totally free electricity how
Much should I expect to get in 1 month and when does Asics
come to scrypt
I got totally free electricity how
Much should I expect to get in 1 month and when does Asics
come to scrypt
1) You can use this information to find the hashrate for your cards that you want to use:
https://litecoin.info/Mining_hardware_comparison
As you can see you should expect 600-700kH/s with those cards... if you get 3 then you can expect 1.8-2.1MH/s. Then go to a calculator like this one:
https://www.litecoinpool.org/calc?hashrate=2000&difficulty=1964.83427079&power=&energycost=0.10¤cy=USD
And you can plug in the numbers. You should get right around 1LTC a day which is worth about $40 right now.
2) ASICs will never come to Scrypt. Something new will come along before someone takes the time and money to properly develop a Scrypt ASIC. Of course, I hope I am wrong on that.
It is not so easy, If you want GPU mine, check your electricity rates and use mining calculator before buying GPUs 
That is an understatement. GPU mining can be very tedious, time consuming, and frustrating. It can take several trips to electronics stores to find parts, and then wait times on ordering supplies like risers, PSU cables, etc. But it can also be quite fun and definitely profitable. I don't know anywhere in the world that the electricity rates would be so high as to you not turn a profit if you don't factor in the cost of the GPU. And I don't factor that in because most of the GPUs still retain their value through resale. The 5850 I bought in April for $60 will still sell for about $60 today.
3x5850 = 1MH/s hashrate and supplied on 850W PSU, if 850W is used 24/7 for a month, the profit expected is:
.491 LTC a day * 30 days = 14.73 LTC = $534 at current price
Total kilowatt hours used during the month = 30(days) x 24(hours) x .850 (kilowatts per hour) = 612 KW hours*
*it will be lower than this since I don't think it's possible for a 850W PSU to constantly draw 850W from the wall, but we will just say that it does anyways
For a mining rig of this nature to be unprofitable then your electricity would have to be $0.87/KW hour or higher. In comparison, the typical high average that I have seen is $0.15-0.25 which would mean you are turning electricity into 300-600% of the cost of straight up buying the coins.
I see absolutely no reason why anyone would have idle miners at this time, and cannot for the life of me understand why so many people can blindly say "mining is not profitable anymore"
Thanks a bunch for the detailed reply.
Mining LTC is definitely profitable, I know that. I was referring to Bitcoin.. Anything I'm missing there?
increase in difficulty in Jan + Feb combined with shipping dates = sucks to be btc miners?
Why do you keep hearing mining is unprofitable?
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Because, mining really is unprofitable, when you take electricity costs and increasing difficulty into consideration.
Another sockpuppet that doesn't understand math...
Perhaps you could use your condescending tone to enlighten us as to the profitability of it?
With the expected spike in difficulty, and the shipping time of the ASICs out there, how is one to make a profit?
Also an answer comprised of more than 1 line would be great.
This is one more thing I don't get. I also read about it in group buys. They say: "when our group miners are no longer profitable we sell them and share the money". But who is going to buy non-profitable miners?
Here ya go. People are always buying non-profitable miners... I have no idea why.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0
and
www.ebay.com
They buy unprofitable miners because they suck at using the calculators and bias them towards profitability on accident.
I have a 5x9 whiteboard full of economic equilibriums (based on excel, I just like to visualize my data by hand too) that tell me exactly what is profitable and what isn't based on every factor I can think of.
Mining is profitable in only a select few scenarios today, and profitable in the future only if estimated conditions based on no less than three different variables are met. It's a gamble, but I could put my money in stocks at 12% return all day long. (Most years I average 23-24%)
Very few calculated risk investments can offer 100 - 400% returns in time periods of months.
Equipment not only holds value, it shifts with the price of BTC. As BTC goes up, worthless equipment becomes more... haha, worthless technically. But by that, I really mean the price increases and you can sell it for plenty.
This mining calculator does a really good job of estimating the worthlessness of machines actually. http://www.vnbitcoin.org/bitcoincalculator.php
Would you be willing to share these mathematical insights here / in private?
Why would any company, however large throw away 10 billion from their bottom line to simply crash bitcoin, id like to see them justify that to shareholders! ouch 
Well... my guess is that an unholy alliance of Paypal, Goldman, Western Union, Visa, Master.etc will seriously consider doing this, if their business gets affected by BTC in the near future.
Agreed
it will be replaced by another currency which will be based on PoS ?
fighting a cryptocurrency is insane.
fighting a cryptocurrency is insane.
It's extremely resource consuming, but insane is context dependent.
If you say to the world bank they would need to invest 10 billion annually to maintain their grasp on the world economy - they'd do it in a heartbeat.
If you say to all the major banks in the world they would need to invest 20 million each, annually, to do that same - they too, would do it in a heartbeat.
"It's unlikely" / "It would take humongous amounts of resources" don't really apply to apocalypse scenarios... Obviously apocalypse means some super major events have occurred already.
I'm asking whether there is a technical / logical error in my scenario.
Why would any company, however large throw away 10 billion from their bottom line to simply crash bitcoin, id like to see them justify that to shareholders! ouch
even if it was technically feasible, which im not convinced of. Companies like google are too busy looking at making profits out of new technologies like driverless cars etc..
even if it was technically feasible, which im not convinced of. Companies like google are too busy looking at making profits out of new technologies like driverless cars etc..
Scenario -
World Bank: "Oh hey Google, listen, we need your help - please take 5 of your most skilled guys and setup this bitcoin farm for us, we'll give you 10 billion which we obviously have. Thanks!"
Google: "Sure, would you like fries with that?"
It's that easy. Bitcoin (and all other cryptocurrencies) is against some major interests.
I'm new to this, so just thinking...
Say some company, let's call her X, has almost unlimited resources (think Google). For some reason or another, that company is now motivated to crash Bitcoin.
If that semi-limitless company invests 10 billions dollars in building the most gigantic ridiculous Bitcoin farm in the world (10 billion is not that much, go check how much the tobacco industry spends on lobbyism / marketing).
Can either of the following things happen?
1. The computing mass increases to such a degree, and in turn the difficulty increases to such a degree, that no one but them and perhaps a few other big companis can remain in the game without losing ridiculous amounts of money, thus leaving them with more than 50% of the mass ( or they remain even though it's no longer profitable for them, just to be more than 50%)
2. They posses so much computing mass % that they simply pass the 50%
If I'm an idiot and do no understand some mechanisms involved here - please explain how I'm wrong and why
Say some company, let's call her X, has almost unlimited resources (think Google). For some reason or another, that company is now motivated to crash Bitcoin.
If that semi-limitless company invests 10 billions dollars in building the most gigantic ridiculous Bitcoin farm in the world (10 billion is not that much, go check how much the tobacco industry spends on lobbyism / marketing).
Can either of the following things happen?
1. The computing mass increases to such a degree, and in turn the difficulty increases to such a degree, that no one but them and perhaps a few other big companis can remain in the game without losing ridiculous amounts of money, thus leaving them with more than 50% of the mass ( or they remain even though it's no longer profitable for them, just to be more than 50%)
2. They posses so much computing mass % that they simply pass the 50%
If I'm an idiot and do no understand some mechanisms involved here - please explain how I'm wrong and why
Honestly, Bitcoin mining is not profitable anymore. Any coin's mining returns good ROI in its initial stages.
Except that it is...
Buy a Cube, run it for 2 months, sell the Cube. You will end up with more BTC than you started with. I guarantee it.
Details / Links?
The projected difficulty for late February 2014 is somewhere around 3 billion on the low side and something like 5 - 6 billion on the high side. 312 Ghs at that difficulty and the current exchange rate for bitcoins would yield about $425 per week with the yield dropping about 15 - 20 % every 12 days or so. The yield for 6 billion difficulty would be about $200 per week. That weekly yield would give about $20,000 or $10,000 earnings WITHOUT any further increase in difficulty which will never happen.
Morris
Morris
What causes the yield to drop about 15-20% each 12 days? The difficulty increase?
Yes it increases as time passes by and more coins are in the market.
Honestly, Bitcoin mining is not profitable anymore. Any coin's mining returns good ROI in its initial stages.
I finally get it
Thanks everyone.
So how do people intend to stay in the game? I mean, what kind of a rig would give enough GH/s/J and not cost too much to eat into the revenues?
The projected difficulty for late February 2014 is somewhere around 3 billion on the low side and something like 5 - 6 billion on the high side. 312 Ghs at that difficulty and the current exchange rate for bitcoins would yield about $425 per week with the yield dropping about 15 - 20 % every 12 days or so. The yield for 6 billion difficulty would be about $200 per week. That weekly yield would give about $20,000 or $10,000 earnings WITHOUT any further increase in difficulty which will never happen.
Morris
Morris
What causes the yield to drop about 15-20% each 12 days? The difficulty increase?
I'm very new to this game, so excuse my ignorance.
Say I purchase 312GH/s (3 rigs * 104GH/s) for around 13,500 USD. (sounds a reasonable price?)
According to what I know, 1800W consumption sounds about right for these rigs.
Obviously I join a pool before beginning to mine.
If I plug in the data in here: http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ with a time frame of 3 months, which I realize is a bit simplistic, but I get about 8390 USD net profits.
I realize difficulty may spike due to next gen ASICs and the fact that I would get the rigs only in Jan-Feb 2014, but what is the missing factor here that would convert profits of 8390 USD to some kind of a negative number?
What I am missing here?
90% of the posts here mention mining as no longer profitable. I'm wondering whether I'm missing something, or this is just a strategy?
Please help!
Say I purchase 312GH/s (3 rigs * 104GH/s) for around 13,500 USD. (sounds a reasonable price?)
According to what I know, 1800W consumption sounds about right for these rigs.
Obviously I join a pool before beginning to mine.
If I plug in the data in here: http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ with a time frame of 3 months, which I realize is a bit simplistic, but I get about 8390 USD net profits.
I realize difficulty may spike due to next gen ASICs and the fact that I would get the rigs only in Jan-Feb 2014, but what is the missing factor here that would convert profits of 8390 USD to some kind of a negative number?
What I am missing here?
90% of the posts here mention mining as no longer profitable. I'm wondering whether I'm missing something, or this is just a strategy?
Please help!