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Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 14/02/2014, 02:54:30 UTC
Thanks for the tips of alternative chart sites, but those I have checked show the price at MtGOX by default, and I can't figure out how to change that.  Do I have to subscribe?



Hopefully this helps: https://www.tradingview.com/e/?symbol=BITSTAMP:BTCUSD
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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin -Huntercoin.org - HF- UPDATE 1.05 - 9th/Feb/14
by
jsteelbeam
on 12/02/2014, 00:15:10 UTC
Too all 3 of the last posted.

Close the wallet.

If you are on windows - Right click the shortcut to the wallet and go to the end of the shortcut location and after it was /huntercoin-qt.exe" -rescan

Then press OK and then reopen the wallet with the shortcut.

Try that.

what rescan? i don't understand

it worked for me. thx. i send some huc to poliniex address. it has 10 confirms but is not there yet. can that coins be lost ?

right click on you huntercoin-qt shortcut and properties. In the target text at the end add " -rescan" (space -rescan)  

Ok, I'm a noob and I've seen people say open client with -rescan, but not sure what it means.  A couple of pages back this ^ was posted before and as a newbie I'm not 100% certain what that means.  If I'm reading this correctly, I would take the following actions:

1. Go to my local folder where I have installed the Huntercoin-QT
1. Right-click on the "huntercoin-qt" file
2. SELECT "Properties"
3. In the "General" tab, type in " -rescan" to the end of the "huntergoin-qt" text in the text box.  NOTE: ensure there is a space between qt and -rescan.
4. Click "OK"
5. Double click the "huntercoin-qt -rescan" file to launch wallet.

Is that correct?  And if it is, isn't that the same as right-click >> rename >> append " -rescan" to the filename?  

Whenever I tried this, nothing happened. The wallet doesn't open (which I kind of expected).


go to where you installed it... the folder itself.. and you should see the URL at the top... click it.. and it will give you a long link..

"C:\fdslkfjasdlkfjas\adsfadsfasd\fsdafsadf\FolderNameWhereHUCIsInstalled\huntercoin-qt.exe -rescan" <--- without quotes

Gothcha.  Thanks.  Now that makes more sense.

Out of curiosity, what exactly does the "-rescan" do?
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Re: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin -Huntercoin.org - HF- UPDATE 1.05 - 9th/Feb/14
by
jsteelbeam
on 11/02/2014, 23:42:39 UTC
Too all 3 of the last posted.

Close the wallet.

If you are on windows - Right click the shortcut to the wallet and go to the end of the shortcut location and after it was /huntercoin-qt.exe" -rescan

Then press OK and then reopen the wallet with the shortcut.

Try that.

what rescan? i don't understand

it worked for me. thx. i send some huc to poliniex address. it has 10 confirms but is not there yet. can that coins be lost ?

right click on you huntercoin-qt shortcut and properties. In the target text at the end add " -rescan" (space -rescan)  

Ok, I'm a noob and I've seen people say open client with -rescan, but not sure what it means.  A couple of pages back this ^ was posted before and as a newbie I'm not 100% certain what that means.  If I'm reading this correctly, I would take the following actions:

1. Go to my local folder where I have installed the Huntercoin-QT
1. Right-click on the "huntercoin-qt" file
2. SELECT "Properties"
3. In the "General" tab, type in " -rescan" to the end of the "huntergoin-qt" text in the text box.  NOTE: ensure there is a space between qt and -rescan.
4. Click "OK"
5. Double click the "huntercoin-qt -rescan" file to launch wallet.

Is that correct?  And if it is, isn't that the same as right-click >> rename >> append " -rescan" to the filename?  

Whenever I tried this, nothing happened. The wallet doesn't open (which I kind of expected).
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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Human Minable - HF- UPDATE 1.05 - 9th/Feb/14
by
jsteelbeam
on 11/02/2014, 22:08:28 UTC
edit: got huntercoin open again. Just says I'm not connected to the network, and out of sync. It's not starting to synchronize though.

upgrade to 1.00.05

delete everything in datadir except wallet.dat and huntercoin.conf

make sure have the addnodes from OP

I downloaded 1.00.05, not syncing though. I don't see huntercoin.conf when I go appdata>>roaming>>huntercoin, is that the problem? Also dont understand the addnodes at all.  I can even see all the transaction I had made in the game, just wont sync up.

I'm new at this too, this is what I did and hopefully I did it correctly.  It seems to be working for me, so:

You need to create the huntercoin.conf file, it does not exist on install.  Go to your appdata>>roaming>>huntercoin folder and create a new text file.

Paste the following in:

addnode=192.241.222.65
addnode=192.81.209.210
addnode=178.32.31.41
printtoconsole=1

And save the file as huntercoin.conf (make sure it is not huntercoin.conf.txt).
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 10/02/2014, 06:43:26 UTC
Its also not really a fair comparison to list the rates against other coins when many of those coins are listing the total supply for tens or hundreds of years into the future. Is anyone really thinking that far ahead at this point?

With the rapidly changing market, 3 years might as well be tens or hundreds of years into the future, too.   Wink

Exactly. Which makes looking at the dilution rate in terms of total supply frivolous at best. If someone wanted to post a more fair comparison it would be dilution per day as a percentage of current supply (however even that would skew towards coins that have already been through a block halving or have been out for several months.)

Well, I think we can all agree that it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.  I did open up a position in KDC today even though I had a price target of 4000 SATs.  Buying in the 5000s was close enough for me.  Especially since I'm not sure what the devs announcement will do to the market.  I'm comfortable losing my investment if the reaction is negative, but I don't want to miss out on any positive movement.
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 10/02/2014, 06:24:54 UTC
Its also not really a fair comparison to list the rates against other coins when many of those coins are listing the total supply for tens or hundreds of years into the future. Is anyone really thinking that far ahead at this point?

With the rapidly changing market, 3 years might as well be tens or hundreds of years into the future, too.   Wink
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 10/02/2014, 06:22:07 UTC

If i'm not mistaken then ONLY 110880 coins are being mine every day, that is at current level ONLY 7.76BTC!!! This is NOT a lot when you compare it to other coins...


For those that think 110,880 coins per day is a lot.

     14,400 HBN
     28,800 LTC
     48,000 ICN
    110,880 KDC
    152,279 WDC
  1,440,000 USDe
 11,520,000 DGB
 14,400,000 EAC
720,000,000 DOGE

the number mined per day compared to the total coins.... its still a LOT!!!
0.00012% per day HBN
0.00034% per day LTC
0.00555% per day KDC
0.0009%  per day USDe
0.00054% per day DGB
0.00106% per day EAC


Spot on
Look at the ratio

It doesn't really matter how many coins per day or what percentage there is... it really only matters what you can do with them.  Mining 1 coin worth 1,000,000 satoshis or 1,000,000 coins worth 1 satoshi, it really doesn't make a damn bit of difference.  And that's what matters - as far as Klondike goes it still is one of the MOST profitable coins out there and has been since it has been introduced - consistently in the top ten in daily profitability for mining per megahash.

Yes, it is CURRENTLY profitable for you to mine because people are/were buying KDC to this point.  If the above numbers are correct, then approx 500% more KDC (as a percentage of the total supply) are being mined than the next coin in that list.  Right now it's investors and the buy-and-hold miners who represent the buy side of the market, but it appears that they are starting to run out of BTC to throw at KDC.  

The investors face 5x more pressure to buy than the next coin's investors.  This accelerated scale affects the devs, as well.  The KDC devs have to push out tools/websites/partnerships to make KDC useful to conduct commerce 5x quicker than the next alt coin devs.  It is a very interesting situation.
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 08/02/2014, 11:35:26 UTC

Careful with those decimal places Wink


Haha, yes.  Especially when your placing your orders on the exchanges! Grin

Sparkzor, I hope you weren't referring to me.  I'm very optimistic on KDC and hope for its success.  Just taking the emotion out of investing and figuring a proper entry point, that's all.
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 08/02/2014, 10:29:27 UTC

There is nothing wrong with making a suggestion here or there, in the end the devs are going to do what they feel is best regardless of anybody's suggestion or comments.  People have been making donations on here for various purposes, how much have you donated?

To compare KDC to Dogecoin is ridiculous.  The investment dynamics of both coins are vastly different.  The community support for Klondike has been fantastic already.  If anything, the lesson to be learned here is that when a coin is on a three year path to maturity, we should expect a different type of return on our investment.  People are expecting KDC to climb to $1-2 at any time.  What I'm suggesting is that it's not going to happen to KDC in the way people are expecting because of the 3 yr path and the supply/demand dynamics.  We have already had many attempted and failed attacks at higher prices in spite of incredible community support.

That suggests to me that there is way too much supply and dilution in the early stages of this coin.  In 99% of the coins out there, you would be correct that the size of the community and marketing is the most important factor.  KDC is the outlier.  The vast rate of dilution before the first halving up to the second/third halving, makes the ability of the immediate price of KDC to rise steadily very difficult (not impossible).  It does have a very severe impact on the pricing of KDC in the initial stages compared to other coins.  KDC is very unique this way.  You can choose to ignore it if you want, but thats not going to stop 110,000 KDC's being mined every day and then dumped into the market until the first halving.  As I said before, for comparison CATcoin has only 7.200 coins being added daily.

I totally agree with this.  The downward pressure on the price is HUGE for the near term.  As an investor, I'm not buying until the 0.00000400 range.  Too many coins hitting the market.

If it hits 0.000004, it would mean that the coin is very dead with 21M market supply. And even with the price going fairly consistently down over the course of the last weeks, it's still far from it.

I respectfully disagree with the conclusion that if KDC hits 0.00004 that it is dead.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but KDC was trading around 0.00030 recently, so the descent to the current price is in line with my projections due to supply of coins hitting the market.  

Yes, the total market supply is what is attractive to this coin and why I plan to invest heavily; however, the real value of the supply won't be realized until the reward is "halved" several times.  Unfortunately,  this won't occur for 6 months to 1 year (which is many lifetimes in the Alt Coin world).  I'm assuming that many miners who are not "true believers" are looking for short-term gains and not in it for the long-haul.  They will mine and dump at will.  Without sufficient buying support from the "true believers" the price will inevitably drop to my projection until the demand outstrips the supply.

Long-term, I am very bullish on the prospects of KDC, but in the short-term buying KDC at 0.000085+ is foolish, since you can probably wait and double your KDC holdings if you buy later spending the same amount of BTC.  If I'm wrong, so be it, but so far I don't see any evidence to the contrary.

EDIT: My price projection was off by a decimal place (which I admit is huge).  I corrected my target price to 0.00004. I apologize. 
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 08/02/2014, 09:02:47 UTC

There is nothing wrong with making a suggestion here or there, in the end the devs are going to do what they feel is best regardless of anybody's suggestion or comments.  People have been making donations on here for various purposes, how much have you donated?

To compare KDC to Dogecoin is ridiculous.  The investment dynamics of both coins are vastly different.  The community support for Klondike has been fantastic already.  If anything, the lesson to be learned here is that when a coin is on a three year path to maturity, we should expect a different type of return on our investment.  People are expecting KDC to climb to $1-2 at any time.  What I'm suggesting is that it's not going to happen to KDC in the way people are expecting because of the 3 yr path and the supply/demand dynamics.  We have already had many attempted and failed attacks at higher prices in spite of incredible community support.

That suggests to me that there is way too much supply and dilution in the early stages of this coin.  In 99% of the coins out there, you would be correct that the size of the community and marketing is the most important factor.  KDC is the outlier.  The vast rate of dilution before the first halving up to the second/third halving, makes the ability of the immediate price of KDC to rise steadily very difficult (not impossible).  It does have a very severe impact on the pricing of KDC in the initial stages compared to other coins.  KDC is very unique this way.  You can choose to ignore it if you want, but thats not going to stop 110,000 KDC's being mined every day and then dumped into the market until the first halving.  As I said before, for comparison CATcoin has only 7.200 coins being added daily.

I totally agree with this.  The downward pressure on the price is HUGE for the near term.  As an investor, I'm not buying until the 0.00000400 range.  Too many coins hitting the market.
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Re: [ANN] [SCRYPT] Klondike Coin, Join the Goldrush! ★Kimotos Gravity★ [Coinedup!]
by
jsteelbeam
on 06/02/2014, 22:43:59 UTC
Is there a Linux wallet or one in the works?  Thanks.
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Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 12:11:37 UTC
But in the next 24-36 months, bitcoin is somewhere between 10k-50k. It simply has to be. The scale at which the entities getting involved now operate scale wise, bitcoin will be forced there. And 17 year olds that mined this useless Internet money will have their minds blown.
To be fair, you're taking a bet that e.g. the US government won't ban the use of Bitcoin in the US. Look at India and China, for example. Bans can be quite effective. If the US government banned Bitcoin tomorrow - not beyond the realm of possibility given the US Treasury Secretary's recent remarks and the difficulties regulators and the IRS will have addressing Bitcoin - it simply will not have the chance to grow to the size you want it to be.

I'm long Bitcoin too, but it's a gamble nonetheless.



It is absolutely beyond most realms of possibilities at this point.

Do you live in the US? It doesn't matter I suppose given how many people here are paranoid about our government, but the truth is the US doesn't go around banning technologies. And there is no indication they will ban bitcoin. They aren't banning gay marriage. They aren't banning bitcoin. The NY regulators lead these type of financial decisions in the US. And the hearings made it clear they will support bitcoin and bitcoin innovation. The US takes pride in being world leaders and bitcoin is no different.

It's happening. It's no longer if. It's when.

I actually agree 1000% with your outlook.  The only thing that worries me is if it is actually Bitcoin itself with the marketshare projected 24-36 months out.  I've seen many posts of people who say that the the statements from the Congressional and NY State hearings are bullish because the chairmen have made comments that they see the value in Bitcoin.  But my fear is that they see the value in the blockchain technology, not Bitcoin literally.  

Just think about it: the US government (and all governments, for that matter) allow the Bitcoin community to spend it's blood, sweat and tears working out the bugs of a distributed ledger to record financial transactions and work to make the public somewhat comfortable with transferring money through such a system.  Once it becomes fairly polished, the government launches their own blockchain and USDollarCoin.  They empower existing banks to function as exchanges from fiat to USDollarCoin and ban any entity such as businesses from transacting in Bitcoin.  They can now issue their currency electronically without incurring the actual costs of printing paper money and supporting the infrastructure in distributing the physical cash.

It really is a regulator's wet dream, because right now, the government has no real visibility on what happens during cash or credit card sales on the transactional level, but once they have their own blockchain, they can trace the movement of every little penny within the system.

Let me head off the "But that defeats the decentralized benefit of Bitcoin" argument by offering this: 95% of the population can give two sh!ts about decentralization.  They will just do what the government tells them to do.

Am I the only one who sees this scenario as a real threat?  If so, I need to get rid of my tinfoil hat. Wink

Get rid of your tin cool hat. Smiley
...and Bitcoin holders in the rest of the world would carry on using Bitcoins, for the same reasons they got Bitcoins in the first place..

Yes, except that in my scenario, all the other major global governments would do the exact same thing.
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Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 11:46:39 UTC
But in the next 24-36 months, bitcoin is somewhere between 10k-50k. It simply has to be. The scale at which the entities getting involved now operate scale wise, bitcoin will be forced there. And 17 year olds that mined this useless Internet money will have their minds blown.
To be fair, you're taking a bet that e.g. the US government won't ban the use of Bitcoin in the US. Look at India and China, for example. Bans can be quite effective. If the US government banned Bitcoin tomorrow - not beyond the realm of possibility given the US Treasury Secretary's recent remarks and the difficulties regulators and the IRS will have addressing Bitcoin - it simply will not have the chance to grow to the size you want it to be.

I'm long Bitcoin too, but it's a gamble nonetheless.



It is absolutely beyond most realms of possibilities at this point.

Do you live in the US? It doesn't matter I suppose given how many people here are paranoid about our government, but the truth is the US doesn't go around banning technologies. And there is no indication they will ban bitcoin. They aren't banning gay marriage. They aren't banning bitcoin. The NY regulators lead these type of financial decisions in the US. And the hearings made it clear they will support bitcoin and bitcoin innovation. The US takes pride in being world leaders and bitcoin is no different.

It's happening. It's no longer if. It's when.

I actually agree 1000% with your outlook.  The only thing that worries me is if it is actually Bitcoin itself with the marketshare projected 24-36 months out.  I've seen many posts of people who say that the the statements from the Congressional and NY State hearings are bullish because the chairmen have made comments that they see the value in Bitcoin.  But my fear is that they see the value in the blockchain technology, not Bitcoin literally.  

Just think about it: the US government (and all governments, for that matter) allow the Bitcoin community to spend it's blood, sweat and tears working out the bugs of a distributed ledger to record financial transactions and work to make the public somewhat comfortable with transferring money through such a system.  Once it becomes fairly polished, the government launches their own blockchain and USDollarCoin.  They empower existing banks to function as exchanges from fiat to USDollarCoin and ban any entity such as businesses from transacting in Bitcoin.  They can now issue their currency electronically without incurring the actual costs of printing paper money and supporting the infrastructure in distributing the physical cash.

It really is a regulator's wet dream, because right now, the government has no real visibility on what happens during cash or credit card sales on the transactional level, but once they have their own blockchain, they can trace the movement of every little penny within the system.

Let me head off the "But that defeats the decentralized benefit of Bitcoin" argument by offering this: 95% of the population can give two sh!ts about decentralization.  They will just do what the government tells them to do.

Am I the only one who sees this scenario as a real threat?  If so, I need to get rid of my tinfoil hat. Wink

Get rid of your tin cool hat. Smiley

Haha...thanks  Grin
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Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 11:28:50 UTC
But in the next 24-36 months, bitcoin is somewhere between 10k-50k. It simply has to be. The scale at which the entities getting involved now operate scale wise, bitcoin will be forced there. And 17 year olds that mined this useless Internet money will have their minds blown.
To be fair, you're taking a bet that e.g. the US government won't ban the use of Bitcoin in the US. Look at India and China, for example. Bans can be quite effective. If the US government banned Bitcoin tomorrow - not beyond the realm of possibility given the US Treasury Secretary's recent remarks and the difficulties regulators and the IRS will have addressing Bitcoin - it simply will not have the chance to grow to the size you want it to be.

I'm long Bitcoin too, but it's a gamble nonetheless.



It is absolutely beyond most realms of possibilities at this point.

Do you live in the US? It doesn't matter I suppose given how many people here are paranoid about our government, but the truth is the US doesn't go around banning technologies. And there is no indication they will ban bitcoin. They aren't banning gay marriage. They aren't banning bitcoin. The NY regulators lead these type of financial decisions in the US. And the hearings made it clear they will support bitcoin and bitcoin innovation. The US takes pride in being world leaders and bitcoin is no different.

It's happening. It's no longer if. It's when.

I actually agree 1000% with your outlook.  The only thing that worries me is if it is actually Bitcoin itself with the marketshare projected 24-36 months out.  I've seen many posts of people who say that the the statements from the Congressional and NY State hearings are bullish because the chairmen have made comments that they see the value in Bitcoin.  But my fear is that they see the value in the blockchain technology, not Bitcoin literally.  

Just think about it: the US government (and all governments, for that matter) allow the Bitcoin community to spend it's blood, sweat and tears working out the bugs of a distributed ledger to record financial transactions and work to make the public somewhat comfortable with transferring money through such a system.  Once it becomes fairly polished, the government launches their own blockchain and USDollarCoin.  They empower existing banks to function as exchanges from fiat to USDollarCoin and ban any entity such as businesses from transacting in Bitcoin.  They can now issue their currency electronically without incurring the actual costs of printing paper money and supporting the infrastructure in distributing the physical cash.

It really is a regulator's wet dream, because right now, the government has no real visibility on what happens during cash or credit card sales on the transactional level, but once they have their own blockchain, they can trace the movement of every little penny within the system.

Let me head off the "But that defeats the decentralized benefit of Bitcoin" argument by offering this: 95% of the population can give two sh!ts about decentralization.  They will just do what the government tells them to do.

Am I the only one who sees this scenario as a real threat?  If so, I need to get rid of my tinfoil hat. Wink
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Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 10:39:48 UTC
Hopefully, regulatory issues are being worked out as promised as it will be one less thing to worry about, but I still stand with what I wrote earlier regarding the investment structure of the deal.

So far judging from the responses on all Ethereum forums here is what I see.  Most of the people posting on this forum and almost all the people that were at the Miami Conference praising Ethereum are developers.  There is genuine potential for this platform to be groundbreaking if done right.  The devs that are shilling for the Ethereum to succeed have either been involved in pre-fund raising before and want to see this succeed for selfish reasons or they believe in Ethereum  and are planning to monetize this platform in the future and want to see Ethereum succeed for selfish reasons.

Then you have the other half of the devs that are not involved with the project, see there are too many risks involved and fearful of wall street taking over the crypto industry.

Where I feel there is a severe disconnect is that the majority of opinions on this forum, Reddit, etc.. are developers and they will constitute less that 1% of the total amount of investment capital that Ethereum is trying to raise.  

If you go to a Conference where the entire majority of reporters have a dev background, you are basically looking at the very definition of a biased opinion and reporting.  Just because a small group of technology advanced individuals are excited about the possibility of the tech, doesn't actually mean equate a great investment.

Then you have the 99% of the general crypto population that are only interested in making a quick profit on this coin.  They are not particularly interested in this new coin/platform and don't really care about the technology and only if there will be enough ROI to justify an initial investment into the pre-sale.  Initially, there was a lot of hype on this coin that drew a lot of interest, but crypto investors cannot be duped.  They realize they are not getting into this investment at the ground floor level and with the amount of money/bitcoin that Ethereum is trying to raise before launch, there will have to be 100 million dollar market cap for them to see a profit.  Long-term is the only reason to invest.  There are few pump and dump scenarios that will work with this investment structure that Ethereum is proposing because all the initial "pump" profit is being taken out of the market and into Ethereum's pocket right from the beginning.

Long term I see a lot of risks involved with pre-sale investment.
1/ There is risk of immediate loss of equity once it hits an exchange.
2/ There is risk of dilution
3/ There is risk of the company dissolving or bankrupting (however small)
4/  There is risk of this becoming vaporware
5/  There is risk that it will be forked and cloned
6/  There is risk that there will be too many security holes
7/  There is risk that a newer and better technology with greater funding and transparency will enter the market in due time
8/  There is risk that the altcoin (or platform if you want to call it that) crypto market will crash in a few years
9/   There is a risk (and I personally feel strongly about this) that the price will be considerably lower once it hits an exchange and falls to what the market feels is an appropriate price for the amount of risk and dilution involved with the project.

Of course, I could be wrong and Ethereum totally sells out and there will be another 100 million worth of btc bid aftermarket.  But do you really think that crypto investors are dying to jump in to give anyone 100 million on vaporware on a diluted investment? ALL you have to look at is the forum boards and ignore the developers who are shilling for the product to succeed.  There is a huge outcry against the current investment scheme.  Why are people so vehemently against Ethereum's structure?  Because they feel it has a possibility to be an asset to the bitcoin community but not the way its currently structured.  

So in final words, whether you believe in the tech or not, all you have to ask yourself is this.  Would I be better off investing in the pre-sale or should I invest aftermarket?

There is absolutely only ONE reason you should buy into the pre-sale, if you believe that it will be so much oversold and the market will not feel that it's diluted to the point where there is another huge group of buyers willing to take it off your hands and xxx times a return on your investment right from the beginning of launch.

Now I submit to you a few simple reasons why you should wait until aftermarket to buy-in.

1/  You NEGATE any risk mentioned earlier in the post and you only have to consider risk/reward.  If I buy in pre-sale what risk do I take vs the reward I will have for taking that risk.  Do you think there is greater chance that the market price will be higher than lower from the pre-sale price?  And to what degree do you need to see Ethereum trade at to make this pre-sale investment worth it for you.
2/  Time value - What could have I done with this money invested in Ethereum that will be locked up from pre-sale until launch on a legitimate market.  During those two or three months, you could have that money invested in Bitcoin (which has a lot less downside and at the current level has a good chance of increasing in value) or a dozen new altcoins that will be launching that as you can see we are in the midst of a crypto coin boom.  How much money will you have lost by freezing your money up in Ethereum, when it could be actively invested in other more profitable ventures where the initial investment is not severely diluted?
3/  During the time you buy into the pre-sale (several months) and the time you are able to trade your ETH on an exchange, I guarantee you there will several new teams announcing a new platform or coin that will get much better press with a better investment structure.  You take the risk of obsolescence even before the coin launches.
4/ By buying into the coin pre-sale and making it a success you encourage Wall Street to take over the crypto coin market and in the future you may see an environment where every new coin launch will be diluted and structured in a way that only Wall Street will increase their millions and the RISK will all be burdened by the crypto community.  Ethereum will set a new precedent and if you think this will not happen, think again.  Miners and crypto investors will be locked out of the early "pump" profits while Wall Street makes millions and we will take all the RISK. The early pre-sale investors will essentially be the bagholders.
5/ Here is the most important reason to wait until it hits an exchange to buy into Ethereum, you NEGATE all the risk I mentioned before and plus you do not enable this kind of launch in the future.  There is a good chance that you will be able to buy it lower than the offering price of approx a dollar an ETH. and if the price rises a bit, you can still buy in at the pre-sale price or a little bit higher.  The only reason you should be buying this pre-sale is if you believe that there is another 100 million waiting in line to buy ETH and there is no risk involved.  You have absolutely nothing to lose by waiting and a lot at stake by buying and enabling this type of coin pre-sale launch.

Now, over the next few days I imagine Ethereum will hire a Marketing PR, they will hype and pump the tech and coin and gloss it over to make it look like they invented the wheel.  They will cast out all the doubters and call them "FUD."  Vitalik will come online and answer questions about the tech.  But I say to you forget about all that.  Don't get caught up in the tech, we all  know the tech has the potential to be amazing.  Look at the investment structure.  Dont let Vitalik use excuses like this is the best way to avoid "whales" from taking over the market.  That is so naive.  Think!!! Regardless of the tech, is it more beneficial to me, considering risk vs reward, to buy pre-sale or buy aftermarket?

If you choose pre-sale, then good luck, all I'm asking you is to forget the tech and the chatter from the devs and focus on the pros and con of the investment only.  Live long and prosper!!


Instead of writing an essay, fix what you see is wrong with what they're doing in a bullet list. Nobody can dig into all of this text. I'm not saying that to mess with you, I want to see a better plan that can be digested.

I thought it was pretty obvious what I was suggesting.  Until there is a change in the investment structure, there is too much risk and not enough upside to compensate to justify a buy-in on the pre-sale.  In no way am I suggesting not to buy the pre-sale, just that there are many factors to consider and as of now it is heavily weighted towards waiting until Ethereum hits an exchange.  This current structure guarantees the founders immense wealth with no motivation to follow through properly and leaves the entire risk upon the shoulders of the Bitcoin Community.

That being said, I do recognize the potential for Ethereum to be a great success if not a game changer if done right.  You can support Ethereum and its objectives by buying the coins aftermarket and still support the platform and its primary goals.  My suggestion is to wait until after the launch and buy it on an exchange at a price the market will accept.  You can still support Ethereum and its objectives that way.  Nothing wrong with that.

They need to offer more ETH per bitcoin, lower the MAX to an acceptable level and therefore the pre-mine.  And lower their shares of the coin to a level that doesn't reflect a persona of greed. If they are right and follow through, they can still be multi-millionaires by changing the structure in a way that it is not overly diluted and fair and equitable to early investors.  The way is is structured now, they are punishing you for being an early adopter and instantly becoming wealthy without any risk at all.  

I feel that if you are going to ask the investment community to fund the entire project sight unseen, then there must be checks and balances of risk/reward for founders and early adopters.  This project is NOT a slam dunk, there is immense risk to go along with the rewards they are alluding to.  Therefore the founders must take some risk themselves and give opportunity for early adopters to gain reward.  ETH is not structured as a positive investment vehicle in its current form

If it changes to an acceptable level of risk, I will buy-in heavily also.  Right now, hell no.  Way too much risk and dilution and uncertainty to warrant a pre-sale buy-in at this time.  Let's see what they come up with based on all the feedback they have been getting.  If it tilts slighltly more in our favor, how can you complain if you were going to invest anyways?



I actually appreciate this post.  For what it is worth, it allows me to understand and respect your point of view far better than your previous posts.
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 10:30:58 UTC
Quote
People like you

Lol...good to see you Windy, not lost any of your charm I see Wink

Look, it's true though. Long term bears almost to a (wo)man Wink make the mistake of thinking they know what the value of bitcoin is. I could have understood that even a year ago. But today? With what's going on now with bitcoins fundamentals? If someone can't see it now, I have no sympathy for them, especially if they were diligent enough to find this subforum.

Before you attack me, I want to be clear that i'm a long-term bull, but if you are criticizing bears for a projected price less than what it is now, you must have a valuation figured out.  Otherwise, you can be accused of the same guessing of valuation you accuse the bears of doing.  So, what did you figure a fair-market price of BTC should be now?  What about 6 months from now?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 09:13:56 UTC
All this discussion about Goldman Sachs is getting ridiculous.  Just because someone works/worked at Goldman Sachs as a programmer or analyst doesnt make them in charge of the company's policy.  Can anyone definitely prove that Satoshi Nakamoto wasnt a disgruntled Goldman Sachs programmer who became disillusioned and created Bitcoin in his spare time?  If he was a disgruntled Goldman Sachs programmer, does that invalidate the good that Bitcoin represents?
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 08:53:42 UTC
wtf is this all about?

The Jan 31st crash is nigh!

Seriously, though.  EVERYBODY is waiting for  $500 coins.  If your cost per coin is under $400, you should sell and let the crash finally happen, so the cash on the sidelines can rush into the market.  New ATH can then finally be had.  

yeah, we take advice from newbies. That's how we made all our money. GTFO.

Yes, I'm a forum stalker, not a poster, but anyone who has followed the posts knows that a large portion of the sideline cash is waiting for that scenario.  Doesnt make sense from a financial perspective to not let that cash come back into the market and cause the panic buying to new ATH. 

Except I am more than a day trader. That's only how I hedge. A dramatic drop would slow merchant adoption, which is more important in the long term than a new ATH soon. We're creating a new payment system, not a casino.

I agree with you and my hope for BTC/cryptocurrency is the same, but if a crash from $1,000+ to $300+ that we just went through didnt scare Overstock or Tigerdirect from accepting BTC, then a drop from $700 to $500 shouldnt affect future merchant adoption.
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 08:39:05 UTC
wtf is this all about?

The Jan 31st crash is nigh!

Seriously, though.  EVERYBODY is waiting for  $500 coins.  If your cost per coin is under $400, you should sell and let the crash finally happen, so the cash on the sidelines can rush into the market.  New ATH can then finally be had.  

yeah, we take advice from newbies. That's how we made all our money. GTFO.

Yes, I'm a forum stalker, not a poster, but anyone who has followed the posts knows that a large portion of the sideline cash is waiting for that scenario.  Doesnt make sense from a financial perspective to not let that cash come back into the market and cause the panic buying to new ATH. 
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion
by
jsteelbeam
on 30/01/2014, 08:29:37 UTC
wtf is this all about?

The Jan 31st crash is nigh!

Seriously, though.  EVERYBODY is waiting for  $500 coins.  If your cost per coin is under $400, you should sell and let the crash finally happen, so the cash on the sidelines can rush into the market.  New ATH can then finally be had.