So, is Wraith going to be ready for atomic swaps right off the bat, and newbie friendly, with a gui for swapping?

If you got in to ETH at .15 BTC per ETH, be patient the fiat value was 370+ at that time and we are clearly consolidating on ETH, like ICN, for moves higher.... Everyone and their mother is probably going to say that ETH cannot ever, be worth .15 BTC, again... they might be right... but ETH will be worth 370+ again. On the other hand if you have traders dealing solely in the ETH/BTC pairing, sooner or later we will test that high and probably fomo past it...

On a separate note... how many sold at $3.30 and bought back in at $2.60?


All fudding aside it seems like this was a push down to break the downward channel we were stuck in... I am honestly starting to think that the smart money is back in play, again... and it is Saturday... buyback time.... Anyone else get the feeling we might be headed for a 5-3 Elliot Wave... to 10-12 dollars and correct to 5-8?

I guess the other thing I should mention is that I look at my BTC value too, meaning this, say I put in, .26 BTC in the ICO, not saying I did... when BTC was 750-850 USD.

I pulled the BTC value, way back when ICN was .60-.69 cents then they announced the buyback, without a lot of details, and ICN was at the top of its market or nearly at it, at that moment... the market dropped to like .32 cents a few weeks later. I bought back in.

I am in the green, a little bit, now, as you might imagine. I suspect it is just different trading strategies at play here, hodl can work, but there is a lot of money to be made on the way, in my experience and down. Also, I get burned too, when I get greedy, so it is part of the reason I stop trading after I make X amount of dollars and BTC on a token or coin, then I guess technically, I am hodling, too.

I am not telling you what to invest in. However, the smart move, for me, has always been to get my initial investment back and let the profit ride. To be clear, if you put a 100 dollars in ICN @ 1 dollar, you are up 199 bucks... get that initial investment back and move on, while leaving the "profit" in the coin.

Say you have a 100 ICN, sell 34@2.99=101.66 and think of that 76 ICN as icing on the cake. Heck, if ICN punches up to .01 BTC that is .76 BTC or at today's prices $1911.83

Of course, if you are one of those traders that always look at trade, later and say, if I had just had that other 34 (insert coin/token here)... I could have had a whole BTC... do not listen to me and just hold... and not that hodl crap have an exit price otherwise you are just guy with a bunch of money... that has no real value since you do not use it for crap you want or need if you are an adult (no offense is meant here... I am thinking of the guy/girl that buys the 60 inch television when they actually need to buy brake-shoes and gas or diapers).

Whales already have their coins and have been holding (or hodling) for a while... and locking away their coins would kill trust. Verge is moving, I think, is because "whales" have spent the better part of a year accumulating at 1 sat... and locking away those coins would result in an immediate dump. Now, if you are talking about the current daily supply, what the miners miners do... (maybe mining and dumping is what you are thinking) here is the math...

13,409,472,280/16,555,000,000=0.809995305345817

0.809995305345817x100= 80.9995305345817 percent of the coins have been mined.

4,492800 Verge are mined a day which translates to 6.67753632 @ 149 sats...

Verge is doing 700-900 BTC volume daily so new coins are not crashing the markets....

If Verge is doing 700 BTC a day... there are 1440 minutes in a day... 700/1440= 0.4861111111111111 BTC is spent every minute, on average.
As a result, in ( I am rounding here, of course) 6.68/.48= 13.92, which means in 14 minutes of trading a day's supply is bought, assuming every miner is dumping.

 So, your suggestion to lock up the supply seems a little ill-conceived. After all, if miners can't mine and dump for some money, why mine Verge at all? If whales can't trade and make money, why bother with Verge, at all? How do you pick the coins that are good for trading...?


Frankly, at this point I think that the only ones worried about the supply are the new people, dreaming of 1 dollar Verge, while ignoring the fact that a .01, .05 (2 years out), or even a .10 (maybe 3 years out) cent privacy focused coin with multi-algo and potentially rootstock smart contracts is a realistic and reasonable approach to valuation for Verge, I think.

I suspect that this will be one of those things we have to disagree on with regard to coattails as we view and interpret facts in different manners.

I was under the impression that development had rather stalled until late last year, and there was a new dev announced on twitter https://twitter.com/BitmarkUpdates/status/779533000778342401 .


Maybe, when I was checking on BTM in March of 2015 and dev update saying he was not not being very honest with us.... or the orphaning issues that have persisted for a very, very long time on BTM, are all things that would make a the Chinese Bitmark Inc people thing, your know what, we can totally make bank off of this project's name and its kick arse reputation. Then they launched their website in August of 2015 https://web.archive.org/web/20150801012258/https://bitmark.com/ .... but you know that is probably fake too. (I will admit, I hoped like heck those guys might be taking over BTM.)

Now, frankly, if you searched Bitmark at any point during 2016 or the last part of 2015, you got the bitmark.com website or I did and had to scroll down to the bitcointalk thread. Also, bitmark.io and bitmark.co did not even show up... and still do not. Maybe, I was just typing "bitmark" wrong.

Now, Bitmark Inc had news right around the same time we started seeing development again, after Bitmark Inc got the 1.7 million funding. Also, if I have to link you to the twitter post from the BTM team's twitter post and the funding if Bitmark Inc, you are not doing you due diligence on coins/tokens.

Perhaps, you would be willing to tell me why you do not see it BTM as riding the coattails of Bitmark Inc's news, presumably you are watching both projects like me and have noticed the price tends to tick up with Bitmark Inc press. I know the news, we get from twitter and slack but new features without some concrete movement on the mining issues feels like a repeat of 2015 to me.

And yes, I want BTM to succeed but unless these chain issues get solved sooner rather than later (forks are always later, which is unsettling), I do not have a great feeling about the BTM.

Lastly, I'd rather be honest and wrong than clueless and bag holding.

I read the stuff on the hard fork rules... unanimous (or near it) consent kills any fork, which seemed like a naive thing to even suggest.

Additionally, the thing about the "accidental transaction" and the "wrong chain" has me a bit worried, sounds like a fork or a f-up, which no one is really solving.

The Dev (melvincarvalho) also says he stands ready help develop the coin, if it keeps going, not exactly sounding like he is into it, at the moment.

Then, you think about Bitmark Inc and I start wondering if Bitmark, as we know it, now, is just hoping to ride the coattails of the Chinese  project, Bitmark Inc with their funding announcements last year and other news they had.... I checked to see if there was a new wallet on bitmark.io and it is still Bitmark Core 0.9.4.0 beta despite the recent news of releases.... I guess we will see stuff "Soon" since

Blind faith is just as bad as trolling... it would be nice to see some alpha builds for the general public since nearer to production quality seems like they should have that....

My point is that you seem to know something none of the rest of us do not "hunny"... I assume it is not blind faith. If it does not strike you as the least bit odd they decided the dividends were not feasible, now? I have been buying the dips on the dividend assumption. You may call me a troll or "hunny",  it still does not stop one from wondering what changed on their end. I do enjoy the fact that you think the creators of a company, with shareholders would not make bad decisions, again GoPro is a good recent example. I hope ICN succeeds... the strategy on making money on it though has changed since now it is clear the only way to make the "dividend" is to trade it, which is just more work... but you know that cause you are the smartest individual on the internet.... Also, nothing worrying about a buyback at the ATH of ICN for you, at all, that shows ballz or boobs of steel.

lol research... dang, that is what I done when I invested in ICN i.e. the dividend was appealing, as I said.

I did the math on that dividend you are talking about too and it was 0.00056914 cents at ETH's current price, which is not a lot, even if you hold 200k. The ETH return would have been this 0.00001149425. Now, for one second, imagine, if you can that the penny was not what you were interested in but the ETH dividend, which would have been 2.29 ETH, again not much today, on a per week basis, but you are not having to trade to make that crap, it is passive..... Heck, when I did the math on this crap in the beginning, I was expecting ETH to 120 dollars a coin by the coming summer.


Honestly, the research thing still is amusing me... buybacks fail, you know. cough, GOPro, cough, and there are other examples of it not working, as you know since I bet you "research." Also, I freaking love that you picked Berkshire Hathaway since good old Warren Buffet got me thinking about this subject earlier this year.... But heck, I bet you "researched" the he!! out of this subject, you know buybacks... and the ICN team is totally not going to buy back stocks at the ATH of ICN, which would be insane...

“The question of whether a repurchase action is value-enhancing or value-destroying for continuing shareholders is entirely purchase-price dependent,” 
http://blogs.wsj.com/cfo/2017/02/27/berkshire-hathaways-buffett-cautions-on-share-buybacks-as-repurchases-fall/

No wait, you have convinced me... I should not think about the buyback since you used the word "research"... I get it the ICN team is basically Warren Buffet and he would not want investors to to think about value... he just buys stuff and it all works out....

So, you have info on the total number of ICN that will be bought back...? That number would be very helpful, frankly.

Also over 10 million was raised in the ICO, a 50k buyback without some hard numbers on the total buyback, makes those of us who have been doing this for a while, worry. You worry since your asset is not what you bought, anymore, i.e. a dividend producing asset (and that matters). You worry because buying back an asset that was sold at Y, then bought back at Y+1 tends to make you wonder if you are some sort of ponzi scheme; indeed, the announcement of http://cofound.it/, which needs additional capital might lend credence to that worry, if you are reasonable. You may call it FUD, it will not change the fact that it is a reasonable concern.

Further, reasonable investors are looking at it an thinking, what is the real value here, now? They buyback at these small levels does not produce scarcity... what is the upside. The upside is to drive the price back down and get more coins gone, faster... and whales have the capital do it... look at the top holders of ICN... they could make bank and still have profit with a drive down of the price. Again, this can be called FUD but is a reasonable concern.

Is this a move to be listed on Polo since the dividend might have been an issue with a US based company.... You can make decent money on a pump there, no doubt, instead of holding. If there is no Polo, after the dividend is gone, then, maybe there is some issue with ICN that makes Polo think they are scam since ICN is not on there. Again, you can call it FUD but if you have been doing this for a while this is stuff you probably have thought about on most coins....

I am not sure that is great at all. The change seems like a betrayal of what made the ICO on this one good...

If ICN is finally listed on Polo, god help us all, now. There will be massive swings, down, probably, with whales trying to force more ICN off the market... or they will do it on Kraken. I am just speculating, of course, but if you think about whale behavior, a down week or two could result in a lot more ICN being removed from the supply, from the buyback, which might be good if you can hold on long enough.

Additionally, how long will the buyback last for? Are we talking a year or for a few quarters? Honestly, this buyback round might remove 84k ICN, which a drop in the bucket... assuming the price does not boom or bust over the next quarter. They did not even mention a target of ICN to buyback, unless I missed it, did I? A 1000 ETH does not matter to me since it does not tell us what the targert supply is....

Ah time will tell, I guess, but is sort of a disappointment since I had been holding versus trading this one... and buying on the dips...

So the dividend is no longer a thing now?

from a value proposition it is sort of a big deal or not if you are loaded.

Imagine you are poor folk looking at an investment, today.
.01-39%=.0061

0.0076920 -20%= 0.0061536 still a loss currently

It is helpful to know what an investment is costing you and fuzzy math in this instance might hurt you, no?

To be clear there is a difference between a 39% percent loss and a 20% loss... but still a loss.

It is 2017... all you really have to do is say something is something e.g. "common sense" and it is totally true now, I guess....

you may have missed my post, here is the highlight

"The Crowdsale price for TIME token:  100 TIME = 1 BTC"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1680361.0

Not for nothing since clearly we are rather silly for calling you on it but here is what they said with regard to the crowd sale of the TIME token...

"The Crowdsale price for TIME token:  100 TIME = 1 BTC"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1680361.0


I mean I guess they lied then, right? 1/100= .01, I thought... but  maybe division changed recently.

I will and thanks.

I get  this "Internal server error" message when I try to reset my password on the ARK ICO website... is this normal?
I also got "Login forbidden" with my proper credentials....

Any numbers on the coin supply, yet, from the crowd sale, including the bonuses signature campaign?
I can figure basic supply, roughly, 5416x100= 541600... it leads me to believe that the total initial supply will be well under a 1 million TIME tokens. Is that correct?

If you are fudding, ignore my post below... if not here goes

This is how the big fish eat us little guys, until we learn that a 5-10 percent drop is not a big deal, if you are holding long term....

If you are day trading on a margin, it kicks you kester, every time if you buy in at the wrong moment.

I learned to figure out the trading range, resistance levels, and what the heck a bull and bear trap was, after I got burned, thinking every sell off was a dump, in the early days of crypto... The guys or ladies with the real money can short and long in one trading range since they have the capital move markets both ways... or can read the charts better than most of us....

A dump is usually massive more than 15 percent in my book and I look for bad news on a coin, if I do not see it, then, I wonder if a whale is getting out of a coin. I do not speculate on coins, Also, I only buy stuff that I think has value, meaning you will not see me buying Pixie coin even if it has a 1000 percent increase...