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Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Transcript of Chat Between Sunny King (Peercoin) & Daniel Larimer (Bitshares)
by
l4p7
on 20/06/2014, 15:50:50 UTC
any progress on getting sunny on mumble?
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: Bitcoin Core (Bitcoin-Qt) 0.9.1 released - update required
by
l4p7
on 09/04/2014, 18:03:11 UTC
This applies to Multibit Bitcoin wallets? Multibit vs 0.5.17?
+1

Any update there?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 09/04/2014, 12:47:32 UTC
Does any sort of collateralization requirement denominated in XCP limit the total amount of assets that can be traded on the exchange to the market cap of XCP? How do you work out the margin requirement? Or is the idea that any asset in one's possession can be used as collateral, but represented as an XCP equivalent?

In a world with XCP backed assets, one way I could imagine this working would be that the current market price of the asset (based on a price feed) would be locked away when the asset was created, and the issuer would place a bet to cover future variations in the price, up to a disclosed bet size, and future date.

An issuer could choose the amount of margin they want to put up, and when they run out, the asset would be automatically liquidated. This would have the side effect of dumpling an asset holder back into XCP if a market got volatile, but I think it could dramatically reduce counterparty risk, and everyone would know were they stood.

When issuing, an issuer would lock away $1 worth of XCP to create the asset, and might choose to commit, say, another 25% to cover variation. So $1.25 worth of XCP might be locked away per USD token. They could sell the token to get $1 of XCP back, so they'd basically be net a long XCP bet.

I can imagine that this kind of usage would increase the scarcity of XCP and push the price up (so in the next round a unit of XCP could back a larger dollar value of assets, and so on).

You cannot eliminate counterparty risk from an asset-backed currency peg, as there is no mechanism at the protocol level to stop the issuer (i.e. the user with the private key of the address with the XCP backing) from withdrawing funds. I still think though that is a really good use-case.

A currency peg that actually requires no trust is making a CFD on the price of an asset to which you would like to peg your holdings in XCP. The effectiveness of the peg, however, depends on one's leverage, which in turn increases one's risk. For anyone who is interested in making such a peg, I have come up with a few examples which would show how you do it.

Quote
as there is no mechanism at the protocol level to stop the issuer (i.e. the user with the private key of the address with the XCP backing) from withdrawing funds
But would it be possibility to implement such a mechanism: The issuer of XLTC sends the funds to a LTC wallet within the Counterparty system....
So the above says that trading a user defined and user issued asset involves counter party risk (the issuer not keeping his promise to redeem the asset if desired) but the counterparty website claims: "Trade, BTC, XCP and user-created assets with no counterparty risk"  Huh
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 09/04/2014, 12:30:40 UTC
Hi guys. With the Counterwallet mainnet release behind us, I've made my identity public to facilitate the continued evolution of Counterparty as we enter the next stage of growth.

Please see our blog post on this matter at: https://www.counterparty.co/next-steps/

This is a great thing! And in my opinion a necessary one to actually being able to compete. There will be competition with real world identity developers. Real world identity creates trust and the media is looking for a face and a story behind it. Also how would you want to negotiate deals with partner with a hidden idenity?? Smiley Over Skype only? That would be highly unprofessional.   
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Delegated Proof of Stake (DPOS) White Paper by Daniel Larimer
by
l4p7
on 05/04/2014, 20:16:00 UTC
A paper justifying a 100% premine. Honestly?

You didnt read it. This is not about coin distribution but about payment verification.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 29/03/2014, 23:20:06 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpwhT63EkZ4  Decentralized Applications - the future of Bitcoin  @ coin summit. Not interesting technically but from a point of how mainstream perception can and will be shaped.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 29/03/2014, 13:10:36 UTC
We can trade XCP on Bter now. Smiley

https://bter.com/trade/xcp_btc

Thank you for such a good site
It is very comprehensive and very safe, I trade a lot inside!

With Bitcoin ban looming over China I think bter just got alot more risky. I wouldnt leave any coins laying around there!

Why? There is no sign that the Chinese government would confiscate the coins on bter. In which way would it be dangerous?!
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 29/03/2014, 11:10:43 UTC
The thing I really got from all these discussions is that Bitcoin is controlled by 12 miners. This is scary and is opposite to the decentralized nature.
I guess when big money comes in greed overrules everything and power grab happens.
If that's what you got from it, then you're either assuming that a majority of people would do things differently (unlikely), or that Bitcoin being controlled by 12 developers is somehow better (no thanks)...

Luke will you shut the fuck up? If your not gonna listen to what the community wants, then get out of this thread. You've sounded nothing short of a arrogant prick in all your posts.

If you don't like Counterparty, close the door on your way out.

Who do you think you helping with such a comment? The more bad words you throw at Luke the more confrontative he will get. This all is childish!

It should be ok to have different views!! Accepting that is the first and only way for finding a solution together!
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 28/03/2014, 12:41:49 UTC

So you would send me the Gold via post mail. Did I get that right?
How do I know that you have the gold?
And you also provide a BTC/1ozGold price feed? What data is that feed based on exactly?

Answer1:
We don't send you the gold. Our system is setup that gold goes directly from the gold seller to the custodian. We never touch your gold.

Answer 2:
With our special custody agreement, you can conduct an independent audit on the gold in custody. Again, we never touch your gold. It's in professional, bonded, insured, guarded custody.

Answer 3:
We will provide a feed on spot gold. I just need to figure out how to do that on Counterparty, but it's not a blocker to trading your gold coin on the DEX.

EDIT: Super Thanks for these questions, l4p7. I will add them to our FAQ right now.

You are welcome. This is a good practical application to understand Counterparty Wink

What advantage (fees?) do you have from doing this service?

Is there some kidn of trust rating within Counterparty? So that if you come up with a silver Trust in 2015, how do I know that this issuer is actually the BitcoinTangible guy that issues the XGold in a trustful manner since Spring 2014? Some kind of private key authentication?

Further feedback: Apply high industry standards: (More) professional website, publish independent audits from a industry standard audit company frequently on your website.

Edit: And I would remove the big BUY NOW buttons that are twice on the homepage, one right below the other one  Huh Looks scamy (subtext: Buy fast (give us your money) without us explaining you first how it works and what the service is). A "buy now" button should be subtle but visible and not twice right next to each other!  Other than that, a great service! Smiley

Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 28/03/2014, 12:31:59 UTC

Matt, do you promote this on reddit and whatever other platforms?
 
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 28/03/2014, 00:24:31 UTC

Product and Service Updates March 27, 2014

Introduction:
We at BitcoinTangibleTrust are happy that to launch a public, trustless trial of BitcoinTangible Trust's gold asset purchase, custody, and issuance on the Counterparty Platform. The players in this public purchase will be:

  • Global_trade_repo(Counterparty Forums) also known as led_cd(BitcoinTalk Forums)
  • BitcoinTangibleTrust (Counterpart Forums) also known as BitcoinTangibleTrust(BitcoinTalk Forums)
  • Agora Commodities
  • DiamondState Depository

Objective:
Our objective is to open up the BitcoinTangibleTrust process to the community in order to build trust from with our process and to validate that there is a value proposition we can continue to scale with more customers and further sales.

Our Process:
Walk with led_cd through the purchase of approximately 1 BTC of gold for custody and DEX trading through BitcoinTangible Trust process. led_cd will provide his public feedback on the purchase, custody, and trading process to the community. We welcome a very public exercise. We will not charge any fees to led_cd/Global_Trade_repo outside the fees from either gold sellers or our custodian partners.

The first step will be for led_cd to fill out our Order form online and inform us of his desire to make a purchase of 1 BTC of gold here: http://bitcointangibletrust.com/buy-gold/

Our Ask:
We look to you, the community to share any thoughts on the process and how we might improve by quoting us in the feedback we will share during the entire process. Will you help us?

Thank you Counterparty Devs and the Counterparty Community,
Bitcoin Tangible Trust Team
Cross Posted to Counterparty Forums:
https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,203.0.html

In simple word. Does it work in one of these ways:
(1) I send you BTC -> you send me Gold via post mail?
(2) I send you BTC -> you owe me Gold worth of the amount of BTC i sent you (for ex.: I send you 3.2 BTC which gives me 1 oz of Gold atm. In half a year i will egt a different amount of BTC and UDS compared to now, and I can cash out in BTC or USD at the respective daily rate). And then I can request that you pay me back in BTC (or USD? or Gold?) whenever I choose to?

#2.  

But the cool thing is that you can trade your 1 oz gold IOU on the exchange.  So, you buy 1 oz of gold from BTT for 3.2 BTC.  You hold it in an XCP asset.  Price of gold goes up relative to BTC, I pay you 3.5 BTC for that asset on the exchange.  Now you hold 3.5 BTC and I hold the 1 oz of gold asset.  Now price of BTC rises or price of gold goes down.  You buy back the 1 oz asset from me for 3.0 BTC.  Through this trading, you now have an XCP asset holding 1 oz of gold, and 0.5 BTC in profit.

EDIT: So nobody ever cashes out through Bitcoin Tangible Trust.  (Although I suppose it's possible, they will try to avoid it as it costs a lot of money to ship gold, and they would rather keep the assets in the marketplace.) The assets remain in the market.  If you want to cash out, you sell it on the exchange for the going rate in BTC, and then cash out your BTC, and somebody else holds the IOU from Bitcoin Tangible Trust.

Thanks for the excellent review baddw!

Answering #1: We do not send our customers gold. It's easier to do that directly. We are focused on digitizing the physical gold asset into an XCP IOU. We're a digital custodian for these assets.

Adding to #2 answer above: Customers CAN cash out into the physical gold with BitcoinTangible Trust. The unique structure of our custodian agreement allows for our customers to redeem their gold at anytime, less any outstanding custodian fees and subject to private key signature verification. Otherwise, our goal is that you can trade the asset as long as you need and it proves useful to you.

I hope that was helpful. Thank you for the excellent questions!
BTT


So you would send me the Gold via post mail. Did I get that right?
How do I know that you have the gold?
And you also provide a BTC/1ozGold price feed? What data is that feed based on exactly?
 
 
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 22:44:56 UTC

Product and Service Updates March 27, 2014

Introduction:
We at BitcoinTangibleTrust are happy that to launch a public, trustless trial of BitcoinTangible Trust's gold asset purchase, custody, and issuance on the Counterparty Platform. The players in this public purchase will be:

  • Global_trade_repo(Counterparty Forums) also known as led_cd(BitcoinTalk Forums)
  • BitcoinTangibleTrust (Counterpart Forums) also known as BitcoinTangibleTrust(BitcoinTalk Forums)
  • Agora Commodities
  • DiamondState Depository

Objective:
Our objective is to open up the BitcoinTangibleTrust process to the community in order to build trust from with our process and to validate that there is a value proposition we can continue to scale with more customers and further sales.

Our Process:
Walk with led_cd through the purchase of approximately 1 BTC of gold for custody and DEX trading through BitcoinTangible Trust process. led_cd will provide his public feedback on the purchase, custody, and trading process to the community. We welcome a very public exercise. We will not charge any fees to led_cd/Global_Trade_repo outside the fees from either gold sellers or our custodian partners.

The first step will be for led_cd to fill out our Order form online and inform us of his desire to make a purchase of 1 BTC of gold here: http://bitcointangibletrust.com/buy-gold/

Our Ask:
We look to you, the community to share any thoughts on the process and how we might improve by quoting us in the feedback we will share during the entire process. Will you help us?

Thank you Counterparty Devs and the Counterparty Community,
Bitcoin Tangible Trust Team
Cross Posted to Counterparty Forums:
https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,203.0.html

In simple word. Does it work in one of these ways:
(1) I send you BTC -> you send me Gold via post mail?
(2) I send you BTC -> you owe me Gold worth of the amount of BTC i sent you (for ex.: I send you 3.2 BTC which gives me 1 oz of Gold atm. In half a year i will egt a different amount of BTC and UDS compared to now, and I can cash out in BTC or USD at the respective daily rate). And then I can request that you pay me back in BTC (or USD? or Gold?) whenever I choose to?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 20:30:06 UTC
Does any sort of collateralization requirement denominated in XCP limit the total amount of assets that can be traded on the exchange to the market cap of XCP? How do you work out the margin requirement? Or is the idea that any asset in one's possession can be used as collateral, but represented as an XCP equivalent?

In a world with XCP backed assets, one way I could imagine this working would be that the current market price of the asset (based on a price feed) would be locked away when the asset was created, and the issuer would place a bet to cover future variations in the price, up to a disclosed bet size, and future date.

An issuer could choose the amount of margin they want to put up, and when they run out, the asset would be automatically liquidated. This would have the side effect of dumpling an asset holder back into XCP if a market got volatile, but I think it could dramatically reduce counterparty risk, and everyone would know were they stood.

When issuing, an issuer would lock away $1 worth of XCP to create the asset, and might choose to commit, say, another 25% to cover variation. So $1.25 worth of XCP might be locked away per USD token. They could sell the token to get $1 of XCP back, so they'd basically be net a long XCP bet.

I can imagine that this kind of usage would increase the scarcity of XCP and push the price up (so in the next round a unit of XCP could back a larger dollar value of assets, and so on).

You cannot eliminate counterparty risk from an asset-backed currency peg, as there is no mechanism at the protocol level to stop the issuer (i.e. the user with the private key of the address with the XCP backing) from withdrawing funds. I still think though that is a really good use-case.

A currency peg that actually requires no trust is making a CFD on the price of an asset to which you would like to peg your holdings in XCP. The effectiveness of the peg, however, depends on one's leverage, which in turn increases one's risk. For anyone who is interested in making such a peg, I have come up with a few examples which would show how you do it.

Quote
as there is no mechanism at the protocol level to stop the issuer (i.e. the user with the private key of the address with the XCP backing) from withdrawing funds
But would it be possibility to implement such a mechanism: The issuer of XLTC sends the funds to a LTC wallet within the Counterparty system....
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 20:25:13 UTC
What sucks is that while the term Decentralized exchange let imagine the possibility of the elimination of third party risk, actually there is a lot more counterparty risk by using it. (I prefer trust Bitstamp or Cryptsy than a random asset issuer on top of counterparty, and it's not even close).

The thing is, a centralized exchanged like Bitstamp or Cryptsy is really complicated, and you can't read the source.  There are potential vulnerabilities throughout their entire systems.

An asset issuer on Counterparty needs only do one thing correctly: hold the asset.  They don't need to make sure their wallet software is updated, they don't need to match orders correctly, they don't need to keep orders on the books.  They only have to do one thing, and that one thing can be provable (such as providing bank statements, photos of physical assets, etc.).  The rest is on the Counterparty implementation, which is open-source.

Do you trust that Cryptsy owns the correct amount of coins for the 50+ coins that they trade?  And that a vulnerability in one of the wallets in one of those coins won't lead people to make fake deposits, trade those fake coins for BTC, cash out the BTC and leave Cryptsy with nothing but a bunch of fake coins?  (Like supposedly happened with CryptoRush and BlackCoin?)

I'm not trying to pick on Cryptsy here, I use them myself and trust them more than I trust other centralized exchanges.  But for them to prove to me that they have all the required coin balances for 50 different coins would be quite complicated.  And then they would have to prove to me that their exchange code can't be cheated.

What advantage does an issuer have when issuing for example XLTC on Counterparty?

 
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 16:00:32 UTC
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 15:35:24 UTC
Can anyone tell me what happened in the last three days here? Any reason for the recent little price drop?  
What about something like this http://www.nxtcoins.nl/50-2/ for Counterparty?

And another, more general question regarding the DEX: Can I atm only trade BTC to XCP on there or more? Let's say n the future there will be more con (LTC for example) can I then, after I bought LTC with BTC on the DEX, withdraw those LTC into my LTC wallet?  

You have at least one working eye, an internet connection, and you can hopefully click on the pages on top. People are so lazy nowadays, incredible.

It's just difficult to monitor NXT, Counterparty and all the other projects closely at the same time...

If this is too difficult for you, just sell everything, and get back playing with your Barbie dolls... People are incredible, you must be French to complain that much.

haha. calm down man. Never complained. Just asked/suggested.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 15:33:29 UTC
What about requiring the issuer to put collateral (xcp) into the system. For example: I issue LTC within Counterparty and have to put up xcp worth the amount of LTC that is bought from me. This would make the system more safe/reliable and boost the demand for xcp.  

Funnily enough, I just posted a similar idea in the main Counterparty forums.

+1 Smiley

@xnova, thanks for your post above. Any comment form developers on the collateral idea? Ad- and disadvantages? Posibility of implementation?  

I like this idea a lot. It's almost like a margin call, where the issuer needs to keep putting up collateral as the value changes. Maybe the details about max funding amount, duration, etc. could be specified in new asset fields? If the issuer didn’t want to be long XCP vs. the other asset they could also raise money on the DEX, buy LTC (or whatever) with the XCP they raise and keep that as side collateral so that they are never better or worse off as the asset changes in value.

There is nothing to stop people from issuing LTC (or whatever) trading derivatives, similar to how XBTC has been created on Counterparty as essentially a proxy for BTC. We encourage folks in the community to come up with and enact these kinds of use-cases (in a thoughtful, responsible manner, not unlike how XBTC was created and is operated).

What I meant was to (medium/long term option) hardcode the need for collateral (xcp as collateral)...  
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 13:58:25 UTC
What about requiring the issuer to put collateral (xcp) into the system. For example: I issue LTC within Counterparty and have to put up xcp worth the amount of LTC that is bought from me. This would make the system more safe/reliable and boost the demand for xcp.  

Funnily enough, I just posted a similar idea in the main Counterparty forums.

+1 Smiley

@xnova, thanks for your post above. Any comment form developers on the collateral idea? Ad- and disadvantages? Posibility of implementation?  
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 11:52:34 UTC
Can anyone tell me what happened in the last three days here? Any reason for the recent little price drop?  
What about something like this http://www.nxtcoins.nl/50-2/ for Counterparty?

And another, more general question regarding the DEX: Can I atm only trade BTC to XCP on there or more? Let's say n the future there will be more con (LTC for example) can I then, after I bought LTC with BTC on the DEX, withdraw those LTC into my LTC wallet? 

You have at least one working eye, an internet connection, and you can hopefully click on the pages on top. People are so lazy nowadays, incredible.

What about requiring the issuer to put collateral (xcp) into the system. For example: I issue LTC within Counterparty and have to put up xcp worth the amount of LTC that is bought from me. This would make the system more safe/reliable and boost the demand for xcp. 
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official
by
l4p7
on 27/03/2014, 11:44:59 UTC
Can anyone tell me what happened in the last three days here? Any reason for the recent little price drop?  
What about something like this http://www.nxtcoins.nl/50-2/ for Counterparty?

And another, more general question regarding the DEX: Can I atm only trade BTC to XCP on there or more? Let's say n the future there will be more con (LTC for example) can I then, after I bought LTC with BTC on the DEX, withdraw those LTC into my LTC wallet? 

You have at least one working eye, an internet connection, and you can hopefully click on the pages on top. People are so lazy nowadays, incredible.

It's just difficult to monitor NXT, Counterparty and all the other projects closely at the same time...