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I think the reason a lot of us bought into it is because it was indicated that this implementation of Zero Coin would make it first -- being already on the market and "scheduled". Although it still may be the case, it looks like Zero Cash (the official implementation of zerocoin) will get there first. Even if ANC makes it -- who the fuck will trust them now with this kind of bi-polar behavior? Also zerocash is academic -- with real names behind it. Not zig and fucking zag.
Zero Cash:
Authors
Eli Ben-Sasson (Technion)
Alessandro Chiesa (MIT)
Christina Garman (Johns Hopkins University)
Matthew Green (Johns Hopkins University)
Ian Miers (Johns Hopkins University)
Eran Tromer (Tel Aviv University)
Madars Virza (MIT)
Sponsors
This work was supported by:
Amazon.com through an AWS in Education research grant
Broadcom Foundation and Tel Aviv University Authentication Initiative
Center for Science of Information (CSoI), an NSF Science and Technology Center, under grant agreement CCF-0939370
Check Point Institute for Information Security
U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) under contract FA8750-11-2-0211
European Community's Seventh Framework Programme (FP7/2007-2013) under grant agreement number 240258
Israeli Centers of Research Excellence I-CORE program (center 4/11)
Israeli Ministry of Science and Technology
The Leona M. and Harry B. Helmsley Charitable Trust
Office of Naval Research under contract N00014-11-1-0470
Simons Foundation, with a Simons Award for Graduate Students in Theoretical Computer Science
Skolkovo Foundation under grant agreement dated 10/26/2011
Anoncoin:
Zig and fucking Zag.
Zero Cash:
Authors
Eli Ben-Sasson (Technion)
Alessandro Chiesa (MIT)
Christina Garman (Johns Hopkins University)
Matthew Green (Johns Hopkins University)
Ian Miers (Johns Hopkins University)
Eran Tromer (Tel Aviv University)
Madars Virza (MIT)
Sponsors
This work was supported by:
Amazon.com through an AWS in Education research grant
Broadcom Foundation and Tel Aviv University Authentication Initiative
Center for Science of Information (CSoI), an NSF Science and Technology Center, under grant agreement CCF-0939370
Check Point Institute for Information Security
U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) under contract FA8750-11-2-0211
European Community's Seventh Framework Programme (FP7/2007-2013) under grant agreement number 240258
Israeli Centers of Research Excellence I-CORE program (center 4/11)
Israeli Ministry of Science and Technology
The Leona M. and Harry B. Helmsley Charitable Trust
Office of Naval Research under contract N00014-11-1-0470
Simons Foundation, with a Simons Award for Graduate Students in Theoretical Computer Science
Skolkovo Foundation under grant agreement dated 10/26/2011
Anoncoin:
Zig and fucking Zag.
Agreed. I was hopeful about Anoncoin beating them to the post but now it seems unlikely. There won't be any trust in ANC after today. The bots are out in force on Cryptsy but they won't save it from long term price decline.
Anonymity solutions are in demand: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/14/anonabox-router-anonymous-kicktstarter-privacy-internet-activity?CMP=ema_632
Also Anoncoin shares a prefix with this device.
Also Anoncoin shares a prefix with this device.
Some tree shaking going on for some cheap coins with the news of this (altogether reasonable) one week delay. One week is nothing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC_q9KPczAg
So, to carry the idea into practical terms, you are saying that engineers who use calculus to solve
problems shouldn't be trusted because they haven't created their owns mathematical tools for solving
engineering problems, right?
If Calculus properly solves a problem then it should be used.
The tool being used by gnosis is not appropriate to the 'problem'he is working on.
In broader terms my point was that he is basically doing the job of a mechanic. Almost anyone with some knowledge of math and coding could do it.
A proper solution will come from someone in the field of math who does not necessarily understand the mechanics, then they would hand the project to a mechanic like gnosis.
For example. And I am not a coder or a mathematician, this is an example of the process.
A mathematician looks generally at a coin and says 'The nature of the private keys lets you generate transactions with varying degrees of uncertainty. That would allow each wallet to have two balances, a real balance and a possible balance. Wallet A has 10 coins for sure and it might have 5 more. The pool of people who agree to have 'possible balances' could be used to create anonymity in both sending and receiving for just them.' etc
The mathematics person then tells the mechanic, the coder "get to work, no food til your done" or however they do it.
In the case of zerocoin you have bypassed the first step and thus necessitate copying material desperately to find a bunch of things that can be jumblefucked into seeming to work.
The whole zerocoin thing is halfassed. I won't even get into some very serious red flags that suggest worse.
People should do what they want but my advice is be cautious. Anc is a good solid coin. Still fairly cheap. Meeh and k117er and the others seems sincere if also naive. The price might run up if zc is completed but it will be on a speculative bubble, not because of any cryptographic step with zerocoin.
The problem with metaphors is they don't address any specific issues, rather they just amplify fears that understandably exist for all new systems. I suggest metaphor is a poor tool for your argument.
People should do what they want but some additional advice you might offer is to be cautious of people (such as yourself) who are obviously not newbies writing criticisms on one coin page under newbie accounts.
Fair?
Can someone respond to this:
http://zerocash-project.org/
"Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify)."
Besides RSA UFO generation (to ensure Zerocoin can be minted in a trust free manner) does Zerocoin have any other advantages over Zerocash?
http://zerocash-project.org/
"Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify)."
Besides RSA UFO generation (to ensure Zerocoin can be minted in a trust free manner) does Zerocoin have any other advantages over Zerocash?
Zerocoin will be slower (+ higher fees) than Zerocash and not truly anonymous as zerocoin doesn't hide coin destination and amount.
Then if the number of people who contributed to the zerocoin pool for denomination is small, it will be very easy to analyze the blockchain and find where they come from.
Another point, I heard that Zerocash devs intend to choose Zerocash security parameters in a trustless manner. If they do that, Zerocash will have years ahead of any crypto.
VERSUS...
Can someone respond to this:
http://zerocash-project.org/
"Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify)."
What will the size of our Zerocoin transactions be?
If the transactions are large and blockchain bloat is an issue, is there a way we can develop a "lite" wallet such as used by Shadowcoin (who is also working on zk-snarks btw). Spending Zerocoins from mobile devices (without a ton of storage space) would be a great feature!
Besides RSA UFO generation (to ensure Zerocoin can be minted in a trust free manner) does Zerocoin have any other advantages over Zerocash?
http://zerocash-project.org/
"Zerocash improves on an earlier protocol, Zerocoin, developed by some of the same authors, both in functionality (Zerocoin only hides a payment's origin, but not its destination or amount) and in efficiency (Zerocash transactions are less than 1KB and take less than 6ms to verify)."
What will the size of our Zerocoin transactions be?
If the transactions are large and blockchain bloat is an issue, is there a way we can develop a "lite" wallet such as used by Shadowcoin (who is also working on zk-snarks btw). Spending Zerocoins from mobile devices (without a ton of storage space) would be a great feature!
Besides RSA UFO generation (to ensure Zerocoin can be minted in a trust free manner) does Zerocoin have any other advantages over Zerocash?
Zerocoin mint transactions will be only slightly larger than normal transactions, with about 128 bytes per minted coin.
Zerocoin spend transactions will have a small part that lives in the blockchain, and then about 125 KB that does not get stored in the blockchain.
Using 8 cores on a 2.4GHz Core i7, Zerocoin spends would take about 3 seconds to generate, and 0.5 s to verify. It's not completely out of the question that a modern smartphone with an optimized libzerocoin could do this, with some battery drain.
Minting zerocoins, storing them, and using Anoncoin balances that were previously received from zerocoins could all be handled easily by a mobile app.
I don't think anybody knows a procedure for generating the zk-SNARK parameters in a manner that doesn't require trust from the users. There's no way for an outside party to prove that they destroyed the sensitive data used to generate the parameters; anybody who has access to this data would be able to create unlimited currency units, completely destroying the currency. Worse, it would go undetected until it hits the exchanges and the value plummets. This is why it's so important to have trustless parameter generation!
Gnosis responded a few posts earlier.
Give Gnosis a chance to respond, although it seems he is hard at work so that might take a while. Personal transparency might be a big ask, considering we're talking about a revolutionary anonymous currency project. Satoshi didn't reveal his identity and few blame him for that. To the people with doubts, I suggest going through his previous comments in bitcointalk and reddit to learn a bit more.
Gnosis: Somebody asked what will happen when (eventually) Shors algorythm breaks RSA. As it relates to Anoncoin, the RSA-UFO will be factorable and a malicious party could mint bogus Zerocoins
that is a good question. Is there an estimated timeline for when Shors algorythm will have the potential to break RSA?
a couple decades at least
Yes. To use Shor's algorithm, you would need a quantum computer (and no, D-wave's product is the wrong kind of quantum computer for breaking cryptography; and there is not solid evidence that it can even solve problems faster than classical computers). Quantum computers that can factor large numbers are vaporware -- the largest number factored using Shor's algorithm is 21 = 3*7.
Then it will be our grandchildren solving the problem
Personally I think they'll have their hands full solving problems re limited energy and water. There are bigger legacy problems!
Thanks for the update! How much funding is needed for you to work full time through the month of October also? Perhaps people here would be interested in pooling some funds together.
Well, the cost of living is high where I live... it would take about US$2750.
Also, gnosis, post your BTC, ANC addresses please
BTC: 14QnfqVG3CqLGBYHgD8tPYJVLxQ2AfvPEx
ANC: AU4hFCFZLhB2gTyG4VbaEurXGrTMNW2nu6
At current price 4000*0.0015= 6 BTC * $460 = $2760
Gnosis has stated that he needs $2750 to work full time on anoncoin/zerocoin for the month of October.
Let's do it!
I'll donate 100ANC
TXID: edaa1c77a30df11f0913caba5feecc99b64201eacd361e6eb02ba84182d2907f
That leaves 2000-105= 1895 ANC
Wouldn't it be better to donate BTC? If gnosis wants to use donations for expenses, BTC would be better. If the donated ANC end up on the market, it will create a lot of unnecessary sell pressure.
The point was that anc took advantage of their "intellectual property" without their permission but now some want to claim that work as proprietary to anc. I have no respect for "intellectual property" rights and was not criticizing the use of zerocoin. I was criticizing the hypocrisy.
Libzerocoin is under MIT license:
http://opensource.org/licenses/MIT
Libzerocoin warning on Github:
THIS IS DEVELOPMENT SOFTWARE. WE DON'T CERTIFY IT FOR PRODUCTION USE. WE ARE RELEASING THIS DEV VERSION FOR THE COMMUNITY TO EXAMINE, TEST AND (PROBABLY) BREAK.
Gnosis worked tons of hours on zerocoin implementation. The code on which it is based has nothing to do with the current zerocoin.
Don't be afraid of ANC dude, just buy some and enter in the game. It's not too late. The price is very low today. In some weeks, we will be on the top 3.
To top Ripple and get to #3 ANC would have to be worth $116 each, by my calcs. If Zerocoin is successful it will be a monumental step for cryptocurrency. Considering the low supply side sell pressure for a tightly held, low supply coin, and the demand for ANC with ZC, I think it could get there but it would be a phenomenal thing!
I think this coin is at least a ten bagger in the making, once the developers implement Zerocoin. I know price isn't everything but it can spur a lot of interest, and investment of talents and $$$. Zerocoin does seem to be the best anonymity solution out there and if ANC manages to do it in a trustless way first, the sky is the limit.
With that in mind, I think the above suggestions about delaying open source are on the right track.
With that in mind, I think the above suggestions about delaying open source are on the right track.
Re: [ANN][XC] >> Mandatory Update to new Wallet - The first POS X11 anonymous wallet
Can someone put the dev's chart and explanation of how the anonymous network will be built on the OP of this thread?
BUMP. This thread moves so fast
Re: [ANN][XC] >> Mandatory Update to new Wallet - The first POS X11 anonymous wallet
Well that was the quickest panic sell I have ever seen... Ended just as soon as it started... Climbing back UP!
All started by worrisome posts on this thread about the block chain issue!!!
All started by worrisome posts on this thread about the block chain issue!!!
More likely just an impatient holder. I don't know what other coin you would be buying at the moment but this one.
Re: [ANN][XC] >> Mandatory Update to new Wallet - The first POS X11 anonymous wallet
I hate to spoil the party but..
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/xc/#!rich
Wealth Distribution:
Top 10 - 1,821,042 XC 33.04 %
http://chainz.cryptoid.info/xc/#!rich
Wealth Distribution:
Top 10 - 1,821,042 XC 33.04 %
It's quite high but will start to even out with more trading. Keep in mind a lot of the large addresses will be exchanges. Each one has more than one wallet.