This is kind of silly, because why do we here even need hype?

Just the long long term users here could almost certainly take almost any of our ancient coins and make vast successes of them without "outside" help, we just don't seem to have much if any "grass roots" efforts going on along those lines.

I am actually somewhat surprised it is taking so long for sentiment here to drift toward hey lets just go with what we already have and do it well instead of chasing more and more suspicious crap...


-MarkM-

There doesn't seem to be any character named Vlad on that server so should be no problem.


-MarkM-

Well since you not provided Github or whatever - source code - it seems the only way to find out how you propose to secure a blockchain is to ask...


-MarkM-

I have yet to see anything using blockchain directly in the game that impresses me, in fact I have seen a lot of things ruined by directly using blockchain.

For example a whole category of card games that used to be played using cards and that often were played to win the other player's cards got ported to using NFTs as the "cards" and revealed a big flaw, since typically the NFT units or creatures or whatever never get consumed, except maybe by combining duplicates to forge a higher-level NFT of the same unit or creature of whatever; and with no ability to kill (destroy) the other player's cards let alone to win them from them by beating them in play.

But I totally disagree that blockchain has no use in games.

Way back when I made my Digitalis D'ydii Cluster game ( see my "curriculum vitae / Galactic Milieu" page, https://MakeMoney.Knotwork.com/ ) on the Apple IIe I made all local currency on the billions of trillions (or thereabouts, astronomical numbers) of planets be local to the planet because having a galactic or multigalactic currency was far-fetched given that ultimately a balance of trade would need to exist, a way to visit the planet(s) the currency was issued by or arrange to have goods "backing" the currency shipped to wherever one happened to be, or to have services provided by that planet, or some way of "backing" the currency that could not be blocked by barricading fleets and such.

Even when bitcoin was invented, revealing a plausible way of transferring actual value via communications rather than physical cargo carried in vehicles, I realised that if communications could be blockaded similar to how actual vehicles could be, there would still be the potential for sufficiently-blockaded planets' currency to be basically worthless in other solar-systems, galaxies, clusers of galaxies and so on, but still bitcoin seemed enough of an innovation to make it a least more plausible that a currency could become galactic or intergalactic given sufficiently-fast faster-than-light communications.

Of course the D'ydii Cluster, being inspired pretty directly by the pencil-and-paper tabletop Traveler RPG game, did not have FTL communications other than mail carried by FTP startships, but still, bitcoin seemed enough of an innovation to inspire me to go with a more Star Trek type mythos, in which faster than light communications does exist and thus blockchain-based currencies ought to be feasible.

Thus, although I do not have the component games of the Galactic Milieu directly use blockchains within the (free open source off the shelf already-existing often with at least a decade and maybe by now more than one decade of proven persistence and playability and often very dedicated populations of players) code of each component game, I tie them all together (the Knotwork slogan, "Tying it all together") with crypto...


-MarkM-

Not clear how you can have a blockchain and not a wallet, I am used to bitcoin-based coins where the wallet is usually built into the node.

Do you have github or sourceforge or suchlike?


-MarkM-

Well as you can easily verify, I have been actively developing in this space for a long long time.

Your most recent post as I write seems to indicate that ultimately yours is basically:

(1)  a real coin, that is to say, it has its own blockchain? If that is what you mean by layer1? I have sometimes seen the term layer0 so please do clarify if by layer1 you do mean a blockchain of its own?

(2) Endangered aka needing help to keep going.


As you may have noticed, the Galactic Milieu does from time to time "adopt" coins, including to "rescue" them, albeit usually ancient classic coins and usually way back when they were relatively new and yet even then often endangered aka needing help keeping going.

The Milieu already has a number of Finance Corps: British Colonial Enterprises (BCE), Canadian Retirement Funds (CRF), General Financial Corp (GFC), General Hosting Corp (GHC), General Mining Corp Financial (GMCF), General Retirement Funds Financial (GRFF) and United Nations Financial (UNF); but their current user-interfaces are primitive.

For tokenisation of real estate the Milieu's approach might be sufficiently different from your Flat.exchange idea's concept as to possibly not find whatever you plan for Flat.exchange to be readily adaptable, because in the Milieu we do not count things like multiverses, universes, galaxies, solar systems, planets, moons, asteroids, plots of land on planets moons or asteroids and so on and so forth toward "treasuries", rather if it is desired to assign such things (which amount basically to NFTs, albeit in your case NFTs physically constructed out of material components in full scale, that is the thing itself rather than a mere digital representation of it) values we in effect assign to each such thing requiring a value a treasury representing that value, so that in effect in the Milieu its value is implemented separately from the thing itself.

I actually gave an example of this approach in another post not sure I can readily find a link to that post though.

So regarding real estate tokenisation we might not be a good fit; but possibly regarding loans and debt we could be of use to one-another.

Current outstanding secured loans for the existing Finance Corps in the Milieu are as follows:

BCE: 90099699881.87031147 DVC
CRF: 75389055785.35493464 DVC
GFC: 2991260065348.00384308 DVC
GHC: 3644558168.68993720 DVC
GMCF: 252868349988.06973994 DVC
GRFF: 1499990323150.80205860 DVC
UNF: 230051662644.83919949 DVC

Those figures change rapidly of course as interest is compounded hourly.

The figures are expressed using the calculated from treasuries value of DeVCoin, not from the vagaries of "spot markets"; in the Milieu we prefer to use units of account that can be calculated rather than have to run around collating umpteen spot markets and such from moment to moment in the course of every otherwise-simple calculation.

If you wish to convert into other units of account you may find our Latest Rates include-file useful toward that purpose.

You could though also if you choose decide to pick a spot market that offers a massive discount on some asset listed in the Latest Rates file and calculate based on that bargain-basement finding, for a good example you could choose to value a DeVCoin based on the prices shown for DeVCoins on FreiXchange, which compared to DeVCoin's computed-from-treasuries value is a massive discount.

You will however also find that the number of billions of DeVCoins minted is massively, maybe even astronomically, less than the number of DeVCoins it would take to pay off the loan totals detailed above so how you would like to convert DeVCoins as units of account into or from DeVCoins as actually available as specie on blockchain is very flexibly up to you...

As you hopefully can see from the above, the Milieu does have a substantial interest in debt, so maybe there is some way we can be helpful to one-another...


-MarkM-

Maybe some clear links to the component games would be a good idea; I clicked around a bit but could not so far find any of the actual games to play...

So at first look this thing seems like vapourware, with up front fundraising via a coin that seems to maybe have no actual use...

I do like the general idea, it seems much like my Galactic Milieu but seemingly without any actual games available to play...


-MarkM-

All the targets you have mentioned are already being made, probably by more than one party.

Thus you might have more success offering to join up with an existing group already working on one of more of your target applications and helping them, than in trying to convince someone with the skills to do it themselves to for no clear reason whatsoever to put their own project(s) on back burner to spend time trying to find out what the heck, if anything, you have to offer...


-MarkM-

Hype need not necessarily be the way to go.

Since earlier than 2012 a slowly growing group of players has been working co-operatively on the whole "problem" of how to make a coin successful; we call it the Galactic Milieu.

Originally, back when altcoin were first being invented, a few players approached me and convinced me that ultimately a coin is, like money in general, an I.O.U. ("I owe you").

Their thesis was that if we set up coins such that each coin was the "currency" of a "Civilisation", backed by "the full faith and etcetera of that Civilisation", we ought to be able to build value.

Because spot markets back then were problematic (and in fact have proven so ever since) we set up a "treasuries" system whereby we could compute a "treasury-based value per coin" for each coin simply by dividing the total value of the coin's "treasury" by the total number minted of the coin.

The results, dating back to 2012, can be seen in the various tables and plots maintained online at https://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/digitalisassets.html since that time, when we set it all up using an Open Transactions server that allowed any asset to be trading-paired against any other asset, and in fact even allowed each pair to exist at different scales so we were able to have three scales of market, a one coin at a time market plus a hundred or thousand at a time market and so on, so that coins could be offered at wholesale prices with a discount to enable smaller scale players to buy a batch of coins on a larger market and make a profit selling them in smaller batches or one coin at a time on smaller markets.

At that time, because a powerful command-line (scriptable) interface was provided by the Open Transactions system, we were able to use our calculated Latest Rates, which back then we used to calculate daily, to have each coin submit 24-hour-expiry buy and sell offers at all three scales offering to buy back themselves using each of the others, so that all pairs, at all scales, were always live on the Spot Markets provided on the Open Transactions server.

The various tables and plots are all derived from the Latest Rates include-file each time that file is re-calculated, thus providing history all the way back to the start of the publishing of the Latest Rates file back in 2012.

What I am suggesting for newbies, and indeed really for anyone in crypto, is to consider getting invoplved in the "Galactic Milieu" project which afterall from its very conception is a study, experiment, and proof-of-concept of how crypto assets can be made successful by players actually interested in advancing that goal...


-MarkM-

An interesting bonus both IXCoin and I0Coin turn out to have from being such ancient coins with such ancient association with the Galactic Milieu...

It turns out that they date back so very very far that they were already in place and set up before the rule about General Hosting Corp aka Galactic Holding Corp "shares" could only be held by Civilisations.

However it came about, the fact is that both IXCoin and I0Coin have, counting toward their treasuries, one thousand "shares" of GHC each.

As I write this post, the Latest Rates include-file shows sGHC as worth 355021.13314640 DeVCoins, which by dividing by the shown value of IXCoins, 643.27608417 DVC, comes out to 551.89543320 IXCoins each, or by dividing by the shown value of I0Coins, 692.04160209 DVC, comes out to 513.00547839 I0Coins each.

The benefits though are far more than the simple value added to the treasury, because the implication is that both IXCoin and I0Coin do in fact have at least one "Civilisation" each.

It also means that both are empowered to obtain from General Hosting Corp MUDgaard player-accounts, and in fact that table of prices for such accounts probably needs to be expanded to show prices in IXCoin and prices in I0Coin.

Basically no-one knows what Civilisation or Civilisations IXCoin and I0Coin are the currencies of, but such Civilisations apparently do exist "out there somewhere".

It also means that the impression generally held that the Ixian family on the MUDgaard server probably got their player-account(s) from the galactic United Nations, is presumably wrong, that in fact they got such account(s) directly themselves.

This information was actually uncovered by followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Paladins Noodles and Noodly and the priest Noo, in the course of their own investigations into setting up a Civilisation and/or obtaining MUDgaard player-accounts.

Noo is currently seeking to make contact on the Crossfire-RPG Play-to-Earn server (Server1.Knotwork.net) with the quetzalcoatl Ixi, the Ixian representative on that server, both to broach the idea that Ixalovh (The Noodly One's name on that world apparently) would be a good official deity for the Ixians and to see about obtaining, through the Ixians, a MUDgaard player-account.


-MarkM-

An interesting bonus both IXCoin and I0Coin turn out to have from being such ancient coins with such ancient association with the Galactic Milieu...

It turns out that they date back so very very far that they were already in place and set up before the rule about General Hosting Corp aka Galactic Holding Corp "shares" could only be held by Civilisations.

However it came about, the fact is that both IXCoin and I0Coin have, counting toward their treasuries, one thousand "shares" of GHC.

As I write this post, the Latest Rates include-file shows sGHC as worth 355021.13314640 DeVCoins, which by dividing by the shown value of IXCoins, 643.27608417 DVC, comes out to 551.89543320 IXCoins each, or by dividing by the shown value of I0Coins, 692.04160209 DVC, comes out to 513.00547839 I0Coins each.

The benefits though are far more than the simple value added to the treasury, because the implication is that both IXCoin and I0Coin do in fact have at least one "Civilisation" each.

It also means that both are empowered to obtain from General Hosting Corp MUDgaard player-accounts, and in fact that table of prices for such accounts probably needs to be expanded to show prices in IXCoin and prices in I0Coin.

Basically no-one knows what Civilisation or Civilisations IXCoin and I0Coin are the currencies of, but such Civilisations apparently do exist "out there somewhere".

It also means that the impression generally held that the Ixian family on the MUDgaard server probably got their player-account(s) from the galactic United Nations, is presumably wrong, that in fact they got such account(s) directly themselves.

This information was actually uncovered by followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, the Paladins Noodles and Noodly and the priest Noo, in the course of their own investigations into setting up a Civilisations and/or obtaining MUDgaard player-accounts.

Noo is currently seeking to make contact on the Crossfire-RPG Play-to-Earn server (Server1.Knotwork.net) with the quetzalcoatl Ixi, the Ixian representative on that server, both to broach the idea that Ixalovh (The Noodly One's name on that world apparently) would be a good official deity for the Ixians and to see about obtaining, through the Ixians, a MUDgaard player-account.


-MarkM-

Well obviously first thing is to have some bitcoin.

So I suggest you first convert into bitcoin.

Then when/if you pick anything else, look for market-pairs where bitcoin is one side of the pair.

That way you can place buy offers hoping/waiting for a dip in price-in-bitcoins.

Meanwhile, while waiting for a dip in your alts that will "dump" some onto your buy offers that are in bitcoins, you stand to benefit from bitcoin's overall long-term upwards trend.

Partly because of course one does not want to actually "run out" of bitcoins, but for oodles of other good reasons I have posted interminably about elsewhere in these forums, it is good when placing your buy and alt using bitcoins buy-offers to do so as a descending column of offers, going so darn low in price that you are very confident no dip/dump will go that far, thus that you will either be left with some bitcoin or will have a wonderful surprise of amazingly low price on your alts that do manage to dump far lower than you expected them to.

That way you get the benefit first of having bitcoin, then while still having bitcoin you also stand to benefit from nice "dumps" in price of your chosen alts.


-MarkM-

Technically yes the Galactic Milieu does have a Discord channel: https://discord.gg/EqQRxady

Technically also in Telegram both a group and a channel, but don't seem able to find separate links for each, one of them seems to be https://t.me/galacticmilieu

Would be surprising to see anyone in any of those places but they do exist.

See also https://www.devtome.com/galactic_milieu ; also https://galacticmilieu.quora.com ; also https://peakd.com/created/galactic-milieu

This is not, as I understand it, so much a revival but simply a still running ancient coin being adopted by /added into the milieu...


-MarkM-

It seems in crypto one oght to expect that it is going to break out if given any way out, thus build downward to smallest price the venue's offer format permits and if venue has ability to display sell as buy and buy as sell do the same in the other direction if not just go "astronomically insanely high" and expect to wake up some day and find it went three times higher than that, so go four times "astronomically, insanely" high only to see the same thing happen again. In the end it does start to seem one must simply hold back a few of the sell asset not placing it as an offer at all, so when price rockets billions of times higher than one's highest dreams one still has some left to sell; or, find a client or venue that lets you reverse the pair, or do the math to work out offers corresponding to to what you'd do with the reversed pair to extend the bottom all the way to the very bottom...

Each year or few though things seem to get more stable, less of those insane skyrockets than there used to be, but maybe in whatever is the latest hype, memos or whatever, they are still happening and I just avoid the hyped stuff...


-MarkM-

Here is explorer link for the Galactic Milieu's NDL token, which is redeemable one for one for real on their own blockchain NDL coins: https://stellar.expert/explorer/public/asset/NDL-GBHAQ252S4Z4AQOM4BWIRC3UHAOJIKCZQBUJGD336YH2O7W2NKRXMHA5

The Milieu only issues tokens representing half the real on their own blockchain coins it has, so basically it is 200% reserve.


-MarkM-

The Galactic Milieu now holds over 200k real NDL on NDL's own blockchain thus has now issued another 50k HZNDL, bringing total HZNDL issued to 100k, on the HORIZON platform.

The new 50k NDL went to NDL's Slush Fund, from whence NDL sent 45k of them to the Stellar Holdings account, so the Issued-to account on Stellar increased its trust line for NDL to 90k, 45 k was issued to it from the issuing-account, which the issuing-account sent onward to the account of a second paladin on the Crossfire-RPG PTE server (Server1.Knotwork.net), this one a Northman named Noodly (the first paladin, Noodles, is a serpentman).

Noodly has proceeded to place a bunch of buy offers for NDL, using XLM, offering to buy 100k NDL per buy-offer.

(Which since only 90k NDL have thus far been issued onto the Stellar platform is forward-looking on Noodly's part.)


-MarkM-

Okay, the start of month calculation is complete so now I can use the Latest Rates to express all the values in terms of NDL:


Basically that shows the Latest Rates not in terms of the default, DVC, but instead in terms of NDL.


-MarkM-

 

From the very start I was convinced that bitcoin ought not stand alone, a multi-cryptocurrency ecosystem was a necessity.

It comes down to building buy-sides; luckily there are plenty of folk who build buy-sides out of fiat currencies but to me doing that is stupid because a good strong buy-side might end up having a huge part of the bottom of the buy-offers orderbook consist of offers that do not get taken for years or decades or eventually even centuries, if ever.

Since history has shown that fiats just keep on losing values year after year, decade after decade, century after century it has been clear to me from the start that trying to build a strong buy-side for anything out of fiat is a losing proposition.

Thus the obvious need for more cryptos than just bitcoin if good strong lasting buy-sides were to be built for bitcoin so that all the many folks and later even sites (CoinMarketCap etc etc) that look at the order-books to come up with a value for what they think an asset - such as bitcoin - is worth will see good strong deep lasting buy-sides thus agree the asset is indeed worth something.

That is why I came up with the original galactic currencies like United Kingdom Britcoin (UKB), Canadian Digital Notes (CDN), United Nations Scrip (UNS) and so on.

Part of what makes them an ecosystem is the "treasuries" system whereby one divides the total value of a "treasury" by the number of units minted to compute a value per unit.

The more the various assets contain one-another in their "treasuries" the more interdependent they call become, all having a vested interest in upholding the value of the others, or at least of those others that they select for use as "reserve assets" meaning as assets with which to populate their own "treasuries".

Much much later of course Facebook floated an idea of building a treasury of assets for a coin they proposed of their own and apparently got "shot down" so it seems to have been good thing that my own proof-of-concept of such an idea, but involving multiple treasury-based assets rather than just a since one, was just a game-testing, a proof of concept, not yet a real planet-Earth thing just something various planets in various galaxies in a game does. But hey if it turns out to work maybe it can raise enough capital to consider looking into all the massive overhead expenses of lawyers and accountants and adapting to planet Earth jurisdictions and so on and so on and so on that likely amount mostly to a "moat" the old horse and buggy era financiers have erected to prevent newfangled ideas upsetting their apple-carts...


-MarkM-

The explorer's last block seen was a day ago...


-MarkM-

Binance claims a DOGE is 200 satoshis, so

13944211800 * 200 / 25000
111553694.40000000
last / 100000000
1.11553694

Market cap for 13944211800 NDLs comes out to 1.11553694 BTC

Treasury system is basically market cap in reverse: rather than multiplying current price of a single unit by number of units minted we divide total value of treasury by number minted to compute a value per unit.

So treasury is basically an actually in existence market cap rather than a merely theoretical vapourware market cap.

Looks like we'd only need 111553694.40000000 satoshis worth of treasury to give each and every NDL a computed value of 1/25000th of (200 satoshis aka one DOGE).


-MarkM-