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Showing 20 of 22 results by mohawk38
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Topic
Board Trading Discussion
Re: Best EU country to tax profit on crypto currency trading
by
mohawk38
on 14/07/2017, 15:11:23 UTC
There is a thing called 'tax residency' that might be different from you citizenship. By default, you are 'tax resident' of the country that you are citizen of.

From the moment when you've sold your crypto for fiat money ('tax event' happened), you owe the chunk of that amount to the tax authorities of the country(-ies) where you are 'tax resident'. No exceptions.

With the new OECD CRS reporting system, there is no way your tax inspectors would remain unaware about your actions with foreign bank accounts. All your transactions made in almost any country will be reported to your tax authorities automatically. And if you did not report it, then it's a big 'red flag' for them.

But if you are unhappy with the level of capital gains tax in your own country, you can change your 'tax residency' to a more favorable one, still keeping your citizenship.

Let's for instance assume that you are the resident of Latvia, where tax share of bitcoin proceeds might reportedly be as high as 31% (by the way, Latvian tax authorities do not care about the European tendency to tax cryptos with capital gains tax, offering instead to pay income tax in full - that might be the case in your country too). So you've made a decision to become a tax resident of 'Bitcoin tax heaven' - Germany.

1. You have to come to Germany, get a legal address (rent a flat), get a rental agreement, register with local authorities, get a bank account. Ideally, start doing something that would make you a local taxpayer (get a job).
2. Live there happily for more than 183 days in a calendar year. After that, you are legally tax resident of Germany. Prepare to fill in local tax forms.
3. Now the hardest part: give up the tax residency of your original country. It is not enough just to inform them (no country is happy to lose taxpayers): you have to prove that you have the 'substance' - present the documents from German tax office, prove that you live there and pay taxes there, have no plans to return, and have no many remaining 'connections' with your original country (most obvious - don't own real estate there).

If you've made it - OK, just be careful, if you are planning to get back to your original country after 'everything is done' - you will be considered German tax resident for 6 more years, since the moment you've left the country.

Whether it is so easy with German '0% tax' for cryptocurrencies after holding it for 1 year - not sure. There are some additional conditions, and one have to contact a tax lawyer beforehand. Also bear in mind that this rule might change sooner or later.

As VC George noted, offshore bank account might be a solution, but again (excluding all other potential problems), that would be a 'corporate' bank account. Are there any reputable crypto exchanges that would allow you to withdraw your money to a 'corporate' account? Bitstamp. for example, states explicitly that it works only with private accounts.
Post
Topic
Board Mining
Re: Facilities with $0.02/kWh in Seattle or Washington State
by
mohawk38
on 16/03/2014, 07:23:12 UTC
Look here at Grant County rates:
 
http://www.grantpud.org/customer-service/payments-billing/rates-and-fees
 
specifically, 'Large General Service Rate 7 '.
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: NXT Giveaway!
by
mohawk38
on 02/01/2014, 13:13:44 UTC
13015386265192136082

Thank you
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Anon136's NXT Giveaway Thread (weighted by forum notoriety)
by
mohawk38
on 02/01/2014, 13:08:26 UTC
13015386265192136082
 
Thank you in advance
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information (Monarch orders too!)
by
mohawk38
on 25/10/2013, 05:07:39 UTC
03/19/2013      100023554      N      0      0      2      0      -      mohawk38
 
Received 24-Oct-2013
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information (Monarch orders too!)
by
mohawk38
on 17/09/2013, 06:18:07 UTC
Order #3430 (paydate 07/19/2012) delivered on the 16th of September 2013
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information
by
mohawk38
on 03/09/2013, 06:19:51 UTC
Order #3226 (paydate 07/17/2012) delivered on the 1st of September 2013
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: Ripple Giveaway!
by
mohawk38
on 28/04/2013, 05:06:01 UTC
r3RGTifvwKFPyWwUiHgmrNTNSrxVF7v26f
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information
by
mohawk38
on 19/03/2013, 08:19:38 UTC
03/19/2013     100023554     N     0     0     2     0     -     mohawk38
Post
Topic
Board Pools
Re: Port 80 Mining
by
mohawk38
on 07/03/2013, 13:46:16 UTC
Are there any pools (except OzCoin) offering Stratum mining on port 80?
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 25/07/2012, 11:45:19 UTC
If your phone is rooted, you can copy your wallet from /data/data/de.schildbach.wallet/files/wallet-protobuf

If you can't root your phone, I would need to send you a special version that has the ability to copy your wallet to your sdcard. However, this is a quite dangerous feature, as all other apps you got on your phone can steal your wallet/private keys from the sdcard easily.


Thanks Goonie, the problem is now solved.
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Order Dates / Ship Dates
by
mohawk38
on 21/07/2012, 12:24:00 UTC
7/17/2012, 3226, N, 0, 1, 0, -, -, mohawk38
7/19/2012, 3430, Y, 0, 1, 0, -, -, mohawk38
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 19/07/2012, 04:31:47 UTC
Thanks for reply Mike,
 
Yes I have synced Qt client on WinXP computer.
 
Could you please instruct me which steps should I perform to transfer my wallet from my 'HTC Desire' to 'Galaxy Tab 10.1' ? Both devices have 'Bitcoin Wallet' installed. Is it possible at all?

Thanks in advance.
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 18/07/2012, 12:16:26 UTC
Another day, same shit...
 
Andreas, if you read this, please help me to get my money out of my Bitcoin Wallet... I will provide you with any info you need, just let me know.
 
HTC Desire, Android 2.2.2, Bitcoin Wallet v.2.20
 
I have re-downloaded blockchain, all my 'frozen' transactions disappeared just confirming they were not broadcasted, so I got the initial position of my Bitcoin Wallet. I made some attempts to send some bitcoins out, with or without fees - it does not work. All the transactions appeared as 'pending', stayed in this status indefinitely, and blockchain.info knows nothing about them.
 
I have re-downloaded blockchain once again, and made one more attempt to send out 0.90 BTC with a fee of 0.0005 to 1P31PQZAemC1pejJSiMULSzdzqBB4Hkjhr, that should be pretty normal, nothing criminal, right? This time I've saved a log of the process:

----------------------------------------------------
W/System.err(  817): 26819028 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.MemoryPool - [50.82.218.0]:8333: Announced new transaction [1] 81afda18aa0d78f27e952dcb6dce916fd0b95468982f7bf54cffc4a1b62bbe09
W/System.err(  817): 26819526 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received broadcast tx 81afda18aa0d78f27e952dcb6dce916fd0b95468982f7bf54cffc4a1b62bbe09
W/System.err(  817): 26819527 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.MemoryPool - [50.82.218.0]:8333: Adding tx [1] 81afda18aa0d78f27e952dcb6dce916fd0b95468982f7bf54cffc4a1b62bbe09 to the memory pool
I/System.out(  817): about to send 90000000 (BTC 0.90) to 1P31PQZAemC1pejJSiMULSzdzqBB4Hkjhr
W/System.err(  817): 26820747 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet - Creating send tx to 1P31PQZAemC1pejJSiMULSzdzqBB4Hkjhr for 0.90
W/System.err(  817): 26820748 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet - Completing send tx with 1 outputs totalling 0.90
W/System.err(  817): 26820749 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet -   with 9.77 coins change
W/System.err(  817): 26820809 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.MemoryPool - [50.82.218.0]:8333: Announced new transaction [1] ce55dd20981b187418daf6fb5c5fed55b4ba75a6855a23ad372319da37899e91
W/System.err(  817): 26820948 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet -   completed dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820949 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet - commitTx of dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820950 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet -   4962f73fddeac67658dac94ef3d3724778466ddabaef55c618b9468dce3ea6a7 prevtx <-unspent
W/System.err(  817): 26820951 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet -   4962f73fddeac67658dac94ef3d3724778466ddabaef55c618b9468dce3ea6a7 prevtx ->spent
W/System.err(  817): 26820951 [main] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Wallet - ->pending: dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820969 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [91.121.120.119]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820971 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [188.96.117.114]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820998 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [50.82.218.0]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26820999 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [87.139.154.234]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
I/System.out(  817): wallet saved to: '/data/data/de.schildbach.wallet/files/wallet-protobuf', took 46ms
W/System.err(  817): 26821038 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [62.75.216.13]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26821040 [Peer group thread] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [78.46.36.3]:8333: Sending transaction dc37ffde1ac5b4918fcd1498ea4f818e667b5f862a9056d6e63c6ae3a5c75d31
W/System.err(  817): 26821178 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/91.121.120.119:8333): Socket is disconnected
W/System.err(  817): 26821179 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Connecting to Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/108.60.150.133:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26821239 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received broadcast tx ce55dd20981b187418daf6fb5c5fed55b4ba75a6855a23ad372319da37899e91
W/System.err(  817): 26821240 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.MemoryPool - [50.82.218.0]:8333: Adding tx [1] ce55dd20981b187418daf6fb5c5fed55b4ba75a6855a23ad372319da37899e91 to the memory pool
W/System.err(  817): 26821243 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/78.46.36.3:8333): Socket is disconnected
I/dalvikvm(  817): Jit: resizing JitTable from 16384 to 32768
I/System.out(  817): wallet saved to: '/data/data/de.schildbach.wallet/files/wallet-protobuf', took 72ms
W/System.err(  817): 26821347 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/62.75.216.13:8333): Socket is disconnected
W/System.err(  817): 26821347 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Download peer died. Picking a new one.
W/System.err(  817): 26821348 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Unsetting download peer: Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/62.75.216.13:8333)
D/dalvikvm(  817): GC_FOR_MALLOC freed 18372 objects / 879536 bytes in 83ms
W/System.err(  817): 26821339 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Announcing ourselves as: /BitCoinJ:0.5.2/Bitcoin Wallet:2.20/
W/System.err(  817): 26821445 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Setting download peer: Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/188.96.117.114:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26821445 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Unsetting download peer: Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/188.96.117.114:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26821445 [PeerGroup-2-thread-1] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Setting download peer: Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/188.96.117.114:8333)
I/System.out(  817): wallet saved to: '/data/data/de.schildbach.wallet/files/wallet-protobuf', took 33ms
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 5 peers connected
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 4 peers connected
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 3 peers connected
D/SurfaceFlinger(   92): Layer::setBuffers(this=0x6c82f8), pid=817, w=1, h=1
D/SurfaceFlinger(   92): Layer::setBuffers(this=0x6c82f8), pid=817, w=1, h=1
D/SurfaceFlinger(   92): Layer::requestBuffer(this=0x6c82f8), index=0, pid=817, w=278, h=146 success
W/System.err(  817): 26821583 [PeerGroup-2-thread-5] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/87.139.154.234:8333): Socket is disconnected
W/System.err(  817): 26821592 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/50.82.218.0:8333): Socket is disconnected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 2 peers connected
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 1 peers connected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
W/System.err(  817): 26821851 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Connected to peer: version=60001, subVer='/Satoshi:0.6.99/', services=0x1, time=Wed Jul 18 14:30:41 GMT+03:00 2012, blocks=189645
W/System.err(  817): 26821852 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/108.60.150.133:8333): New peer
W/System.err(  817): 26821852 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [108.60.150.133]:8333: Announcing 1 pending wallet transactions
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 2 peers connected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
W/System.err(  817): 26822045 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Connecting to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/69.64.34.118:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26822198 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Announcing ourselves as: /BitCoinJ:0.5.2/Bitcoin Wallet:2.20/
W/System.err(  817): 26822545 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] WARN com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received alert with invalid signature from peer Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/108.60.150.133:8333): URGENT: upgrade required, see http://bitcoin.org/dos for details
W/System.err(  817): 26822547 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.MemoryPool - [108.60.150.133]:8333: Announced new transaction [1] ce55dd20981b187418daf6fb5c5fed55b4ba75a6855a23ad372319da37899e91
W/System.err(  817): 26822548 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received getdata message: com.google.bitcoin.core.GetDataMessage@46530cd8
W/System.err(  817): 26822549 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Sending 1 items gathered from listeners to peer
W/System.err(  817): 26822593 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Connected to peer: version=60001, subVer='/Satoshi:0.6.99/', services=0x1, time=Wed Jul 18 14:30:41 GMT+03:00 2012, blocks=189645
W/System.err(  817): 26822594 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/69.64.34.118:8333): New peer
W/System.err(  817): 26822594 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - [69.64.34.118]:8333: Announcing 1 pending wallet transactions
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 3 peers connected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
D/dalvikvm(  817): JIT code cache reset in 8 ms (1048552 bytes 1/0)
D/dalvikvm(  817): GC_FOR_MALLOC freed 25990 objects / 998312 bytes in 94ms
W/System.err(  817): 26823047 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Connecting to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/177.71.186.54:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26823319 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Announcing ourselves as: /BitCoinJ:0.5.2/Bitcoin Wallet:2.20/
W/System.err(  817): 26823375 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] WARN com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received alert with invalid signature from peer Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/69.64.34.118:8333): URGENT: upgrade required, see http://bitcoin.org/dos for details
W/System.err(  817): 26823385 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Received getdata message: com.google.bitcoin.core.GetDataMessage@4662cbb0
W/System.err(  817): 26823386 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.Peer - Sending 1 items gathered from listeners to peer
W/System.err(  817): 26823602 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/177.71.186.54:8333): Connection reset by peer
W/System.err(  817): 26823778 [PeerGroup-2-thread-4] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(bitseed.xf2.org/69.64.34.118:8333): Socket is disconnected
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 2 peers connected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
W/System.err(  817): 26824051 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Connecting to Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/70.66.25.248:8333)
W/System.err(  817): 26824324 [PeerGroup-2-thread-6] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.TCPNetworkConnection - Announcing ourselves as: /BitCoinJ:0.5.2/Bitcoin Wallet:2.20/
W/System.err(  817): 26824578 [PeerGroup-2-thread-2] INFO com.google.bitcoin.core.PeerGroup - Error talking to Peer(dnsseed.bitcoin.dashjr.org/108.60.150.133:8333): Socket is disconnected
I/System.out(  817): Peer connected, 1 peers connected
I/LSState (   92): EventReceiver:android.intent.action.NOTIFICATION_UPDATE
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 13/07/2012, 05:06:52 UTC
I have just upgraded to v.2.19, but my 2 'frozen' transactions don't seem to move. Could you guys please give me some instructions how to either cancel them or get them through?
 
10/07/2012    1.10598623 BTC (no fee)
12/07/2012    10.00 BTC (0.0005 fee, so it appears as -10.0005)
 
Thanks in advance

Do you have a backup?  If so, revert to that.  If not, you need to reset your blockchain by going to reset in the preferences and then chosing the disconnect.  When the app reopens, it'll redownload the last 52 weeks of blockchain. [Happy Anniversary Goonie]

Once you're back to a state with no pending transactions, send yourself the whole balance to a different client (like your desktop/laptop).  The fee you tried to pay isn't actually 'paid' until its mined, so you won't lose that .0005.  Once you send that tx, it should successfully get relayed.  From there, you can use your other client to send the two transactions to their original targets.  It seems that by sending the whole balance to a single address, you're increasing the priority and reducing transaction size enough that it relays with no fee.

Thanks a lot!
Block chain is being re-downloaded now, lets see whether sending the whole amount solves the problem.
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 13/07/2012, 04:53:37 UTC
I have just upgraded to v.2.19, but my 2 'frozen' transactions don't seem to move. Could you guys please give me some instructions how to either cancel them or get them through?
 
10/07/2012    1.10598623 BTC (no fee)
12/07/2012    10.00 BTC (0.0005 fee, so it appears as -10.0005)
 
Thanks in advance
Post
Topic
Board Hardware wallets
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android
by
mohawk38
on 12/07/2012, 11:57:14 UTC
The 'new' version from a few days ago killed my ability to send coins.

Same here...  Sad

'Sent' transactions are 'greyed', not broadcasted and stay for days. No idea what to do with it..

HTC Desire
Post
Topic
Board Off-topic
Re: Let's Count to 21 Million with Images
by
mohawk38
on 12/07/2012, 11:45:10 UTC
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android: cannot send coins since version 2.18
by
mohawk38
on 12/07/2012, 11:20:26 UTC
Yes, I am aware about fees for small transactions, but this should not be the case:
 
1.10598623 BTC (no fee)
10.00 BTC (0.0005 fee, so it appears as -10.0005)
 
The first one stays for 2 days, the second one stays for 4 hours, no signs to move ahead  Sad
Post
Topic
Board Beginners & Help
Re: Bitcoin Wallet for Android: cannot send coins since version 2.18
by
mohawk38
on 12/07/2012, 11:00:52 UTC
Just checked it out... No, there are no any of the 'frozen' transactions in the resulted list. Seems those transactions are not being broadcasted...  Sad