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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 06/10/2014, 21:36:39 UTC
it's supposedly trustless anon using ring escrow but pending an audit of course.


So who is that auditor that every user of CLOAK would blindly trust with their money? And how would that be "trustless"? And what would stop the devs from inserting a backdoor into the closed source AFTER the audit? Or would all development stop after the audit?

[21:42:53] who will be auditing it?
[21:42:57] ^
[21:43:06] because you would have to trust that person(s) Blink^
[21:43:09] id say first the audit... after that let the community decide
[21:43:28] w/o any audit or checks, it is nothing but a GUI change and promises
[21:43:34] <@alty> Well, why not let the community select an auditor then as a first step
[21:43:40] <@cashmen> Smiley

Also, I can tell you didn't download or test the new wallet at all since you said it's just a UI redesign when the UI is practically the same.

I can read the IRC myself, thanks. You didn't answer my question though. How would an audit in any way make CLOAK trustless if it remains closed source and the devs can make any changes they want at any time without anyone ever noticing? Trustless and closed source are mutually exclusive.




Comon guys, They were honest enough to reveal the first Audit and in turn put their entire coin at stake to begin with, I think this has already proved enough honesty and integrity from alty!!!


Trust: -4: -1 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!



How ironic Wink


Edit: By the way, that audit was done by one of the second team devs (mrgnome), and they only revealed the result because the other devs and mrgnome had an internal disagreement and mrgnome would have made his audit public if alty hadn't acted first.

I'd be happy to audit the code again on behalf of the community, but if it is closed source only then I'm willing to bet the devs are doing what they long petitioned me to let them get away with previously and are simply encrypting some trustless blockchain like record. Decompiling the source will likely yield the encryption key and break either the trustless or anonymous features of their spec, depending on how they have rigged up the protocol. That's probably why it is closed source. Won't know until it's audited.


The cloak community trusts you.. When will you audit the code?

I vote for MrGnome, lets get started

I'd be happy to. As soon as someone sends me the source and preferably some protocol reference material I can get started. That's not going to happen though. I'm almost counting down the minutes until alty shows up and explains we can't let me audit the code. "He'll steal it, make a million copy coins and then cloakcoin will be useless!" Mark my words, you'll get some excuse to that effect. It's the same tired excuses he's always used for keeping the source code firmly under heel. I don't expect that to have suddenly changed.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 06/10/2014, 03:51:58 UTC
it's supposedly trustless anon using ring escrow but pending an audit of course.


So who is that auditor that every user of CLOAK would blindly trust with their money? And how would that be "trustless"? And what would stop the devs from inserting a backdoor into the closed source AFTER the audit? Or would all development stop after the audit?

[21:42:53] who will be auditing it?
[21:42:57] ^
[21:43:06] because you would have to trust that person(s) Blink^
[21:43:09] id say first the audit... after that let the community decide
[21:43:28] w/o any audit or checks, it is nothing but a GUI change and promises
[21:43:34] <@alty> Well, why not let the community select an auditor then as a first step
[21:43:40] <@cashmen> Smiley

Also, I can tell you didn't download or test the new wallet at all since you said it's just a UI redesign when the UI is practically the same.

I can read the IRC myself, thanks. You didn't answer my question though. How would an audit in any way make CLOAK trustless if it remains closed source and the devs can make any changes they want at any time without anyone ever noticing? Trustless and closed source are mutually exclusive.




Comon guys, They were honest enough to reveal the first Audit and in turn put their entire coin at stake to begin with, I think this has already proved enough honesty and integrity from alty!!!


Trust: -4: -1 / +0(0)
Warning: Trade with extreme caution!



How ironic Wink


Edit: By the way, that audit was done by one of the second team devs (mrgnome), and they only revealed the result because the other devs and mrgnome had an internal disagreement and mrgnome would have made his audit public if alty hadn't acted first.

I'd be happy to audit the code again on behalf of the community, but if it is closed source only then I'm willing to bet the devs are doing what they long petitioned me to let them get away with previously and are simply encrypting some trustless blockchain like record. Decompiling the source will likely yield the encryption key and break either the trustless or anonymous features of their spec, depending on how they have rigged up the protocol. That's probably why it is closed source. Won't know until it's audited.
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Re: [ANN] [CUM] [SCRYPT POW/POS] Cummingtonite
by
mrrgnome
on 24/09/2014, 04:43:53 UTC
I saw kitaco was the dev and I haven't stopped laughing since. Enjoy the free money, you mentally unbalanced lady you.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 15/09/2014, 21:14:52 UTC
Keep making the same excuses Alty. Look back, you've deluded yourself every step of the way insisting things that are impossible are going to happen and setting totally unrealistic deadlines. You suffer from a lack of planning, professionalism - you could call it a lot of things. How many times do you need to fail in the same way before you address the reasons why?
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 18/08/2014, 01:15:54 UTC
Quote
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to alty
hey guys
heya
hey alty
woot
hallo
sorry I've been absent for the last few days
but we've not gone awol or anything like that
far from it
all good alty people though you were dead in here
thought*
lol
“is alty alive”
haha
thought maybe the NSA got oyu
I do have an audit to release in a minute
:-o
or alien
* Bibalet (d19f92fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.159.146.250) has joined
wow
woot
wow alty Cheesy
fuck yeah
so... are work is not finished just yet... I'd love to say it was... read about it in a mo
our*
Good to hear from you alty.
yeah good to be back here for the while
this is not a scam coin.... I know while I've been afk the last few days there has been plenty of FUD about that... it's not the case
glad to see you back alty, looking forward to the update Smiley
Yea, well, let's say that the fuds aren't exactly new anyway, but in bad times for the unlucky bagholders of the month, lack of talks has been difficult for some people.
I'll make a post on www.cloaktalk.org in the next 10 mins and back to it on btctalk and twitter etc
* David1214 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
This is the only alt that I felt was worth getting in, apart from ltc.And all the others P&D coins of the week, are not my kind of stuff.
So yea, I believe in it personnaly.
awesome
sounds good alty, then we can discuss after?
Cool.
We'll do a Q n A here after
Smiley
Even better.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 17/08/2014, 23:47:33 UTC

Quote


ok, I try it last time to help you out : <@MrRGnome> said it, Tubesteak just quoted it from IRC



Nice one smart ass. Looking for validation from team member not a community member.

rofl

well, then hop on IRC and ask  <@MrRGnome> , the team member to verify it for you

over and out, ciao



What am I verifying? That the dev team is alive/being audited? I can verify that, I've been speaking with them privately because I organized PoSA v1 testing and bring to them community bugs and concerns. I also know that alty is away from IRC because he's with his family. x11joe was just around talking to IRC though. Other than that, I can't verify much of anything. I'm as scared as the rest of you. I'm not actually on the dev team despite the persistent rumors otherwise.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 13/08/2014, 01:29:54 UTC
Could someone explain to me why is PoSA v2 anonymous?
Ally has 2 PoSA addresses: Joe's and Node#1.
The transaction flow is the following:
tx#1 Ally is sending coins to Node#1 PoSA address together with Joe's PoSA address (how do you send the address in a transaction?).
tx#2 Node#1 is sending coins to Joe's PoSA address. (this was not (well) described in the diagram)
tx#3 Joe is sending coins from his PoSA address to Node#2 PoSA address
tx#4 Node#2 is sending coins to Joe's receiving address
 
Here is the problem I see: tx#4 is not anonymous as Joe's receiving address is linked with Ally's sending address through the above 4 transactions.
Just in case, here is the diagram with the possibly problematic line: http://i.imgur.com/UCMqsIr.jpg




It's not possible to link sender to receiver. Coins leave Ally's wallet from a new PoSA address which is new in the blockchain. And in current implementation, coins are splited between nodes, so the coins wont reach Joe's wallet at one time, they reach Joe's wallet splitted in 3 incoming transactions.
You can see this behaviour in block explorer. For example, a PoSA tx reached wallet C8xXp9RMLbSzdCkHdeZeQjfouRyi7kw65s in block 101058 as you can see here:
http://cloak.blockexplorer.cc/block/d8db2e2172716e51203fcc1393e40b2a455c85783f8244d227625e4fcf9f58ed

Try to find who send all those 3x0,33 coins=1 cloak Wink

This is PoSA v1. In PoSA v2 blockchain itself will have IF conditions that look if the coins are delivered in time and if not, coins return to sender. And also, you will have the possibility to choose how many nodes are used to split the coins. Bullet proof Wink
Ok, I will do the tests later and show, but if Ally is creating a new PoSA address inputs to any transactions will be linked to Ally's real address, there is no way to hide this. Just analyze where the inputs are coming from.

This would be correct if PoSA addresses were fed coins directly from the senders main wallet, but they aren't ever fed coins from the senders wallet.  Follow the coin inputs the way you describe, you'll see what I mean.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 10/08/2014, 02:32:50 UTC
Anyone get the linux wallet running on ubuntu 14.04? An "ldd cloakcoin-qt" gives me:

Quote
   libboost_system.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_filesystem.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_program_options.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_thread.so.1.53.0 => not found

The ubuntu repos don't have 1.53 (they have 1.54), and I tried some symlinks, but it looks like some files might be different (unless my install is borked). Any help would be appreciated, or maybe a newer build  Smiley.

For others having this issue, try the solution posted here: http://pastebin.com/MukM8wbE

So...I had a tough time while beta testing the linux wallet on a fresh VM install of Ubuntu 14.04 desktop LTS.  I could not get it to run.  I tried using softlinks from newer libboost, but it wouldn't run for me.  I rolled back a VM to Ubuntu desktop 13.10 and installed the dependencies and bam...worked.  When I did some (a lot of) googling, I found this:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/372703/how-to-install-boost-1-53-or-1-54-from-terminal

It says, "If you need boost (or libboost) 1.53, you must use Saucy."  Ubuntu 14.04 uses Trusty.  I then updated my 13.10 linux to 14.04 via the software manager (not a fresh 14.04 install).  And the linux wallet still works (presumably because I fixed the dependencies while on 13.10).  Now, I'm by no means a Linux expert.  At all.  So if you find a solution where it works on 14.04 out of the box, I'd be happy to hear it.  But this is what I did in my testing.

Thanks zing, I'll direct people here with that problem in the future.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 10/08/2014, 01:55:13 UTC
Anyone get the linux wallet running on ubuntu 14.04? An "ldd cloakcoin-qt" gives me:

Quote
   libboost_system.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_filesystem.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_program_options.so.1.53.0 => not found
   libboost_thread.so.1.53.0 => not found

The ubuntu repos don't have 1.53 (they have 1.54), and I tried some symlinks, but it looks like some files might be different (unless my install is borked). Any help would be appreciated, or maybe a newer build  Smiley.

For others having this issue, try the solution posted here: http://pastebin.com/MukM8wbE
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 09/08/2014, 00:53:16 UTC
Poor attention starved taco. Don't you have anything better to do than make up quotes?
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 21/07/2014, 23:09:03 UTC
Incase anyone here is interested in what goes on during testing:

Quote
can u tell us how u test posa Gnome?
like anything good it'll be well worth the wait
Sure
It´s possible to enter in the test just to see if it's true?
You can see it, we did it last night very successfully and posted in the bct thread
You don't need to enter the test to see that it's tru
*true
We are sending coin's to each other trying to trace etc
oh ya theres a link to testnet or something right?
Yup
What we do is we're making PoSA transactions witheachother, sharing the walelts we both sent and recieved with, all the transaction information - and we try to track down any information that might link to us ont he block chain
http://testnet.cloakchain.info/chain/TestNet
haha we're bouncing right back to 13k
The result is what we've described so far:
It looks like transactions using PoSA generate new anonymous addresses for each send and recieve for starters. They aren't normal addresses.
i sees
So your wallet address, when you look it up ont he blockchain - if all you've been doing is PoSA transactions you don't even see your address the network says it has never seen it before
So that's the start
44 BTC buy down to 100k
Then it seems to blow the transactions up into dust amounts
nice
thanks for the hard work devs and beta testers
making history =)
And it passes that dust through various stakers wallets
i'm 120 at trex
feel free to dump
Those stakers act as anonymizes, they don't have the real address for where any of that dust came from or an idea of how much was actually sent
* Alty1 (~alty@unaffiliated/alty) has joined
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to Alty1
im 120 and 111 @ MP you know who to shit on
That dust could be miners fees or whatever for allt hey know
thats great
love the work
So it goes around the stakers, being anonymized. Since there are so many stakers it's like every single person is a masternode, which solves a lot fo problems that dark coin has such as coentralized control of nodes
Then all the transactions are slowly passed through the same stakers until they are deposited to again a newly generated anonymous address not associated to anything else on the wallet
Thus niether side of the transaction is able to figure out shit.
And there are extra fees that all stakeing wallets pick up
* Hbibhibiub has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
so in effect we are all masternodes And collect those extra fees (masternode payments DRK)) By just stakeing
^^
* alty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
So if this coin goes to $10 You could make a extra 15 coins a day if you heavy stake some good blocks
* CoinadaINC (d8dd48cc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.216.221.72.204) has joined
It's pretty ground breaking stuff.
We need to have cloaks in the wallet or an empty wallet can be a (master)node?
gnome
invite me to test plz
I've been calling it the Tor of money, if Tor blew transactions into pieces before farting them into the wind
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 21/07/2014, 03:58:24 UTC
A conversation we just had at #PoSA:

Quote
who sent me 55 CLOAK...tell me what addy you sent from so that I can check testnet block explorer
I did
mqEw3yfPFA5f2AodARTn6DAhx1NjSYuKwH
is my addy
ok...checking out
it doesn't show you sent out 55 CLOAK
YOu recieved it in this transaction
Status: 13 confirmations, broadcast through 5 nodes
Date: 2014-07-20 20:59
To: mv11deSaKHfwvDZLzW5SYWEYjQPnjKzBsJ
Debit: -165.825 CLOAK
Transaction fee: -0.02 CLOAK
Net amount: -165.845 CLOAK
Transaction ID: fad8e62c8afb24be85ca54a44a2cf2d4cbee54ca2276e716b2e2b0a533f50e81
I sent it to 3 people, each 55 cloak
this is what I have
Status: 10 confirmations Date: 7/20/2014 23:09 From: unknown To: mriTgmRjpVc4k23FfrzpUJr8srQ6Jr8FiQ (own address, label: tesetnet addy) Credit: 55.00 CLOAK Net amount: +55.00 CLOAK Transaction ID: 49bd20dc1c0a2d80284bd235675c83473ee21df7b4284c8ab7ee347b7ff9064f
and block explorer shows you didn't send it
* fearcoka has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
Yep, that's the sae one
=)
Anon works on both ends
mind = blown
how else can we try to break this
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 14/07/2014, 04:49:26 UTC
I'm not the developer working on the PoSA side of things, so for those wondering, the other Dev is working on it, its in the testing phase now.

So I'm working on the OneMarket Interface right now and just realized that we need some community guidelines for this.

So I need the community to come together and come up with a general list of rules for what listings we decide are acceptable and which are not.  Ultimately, the reviewers will decide, but they would be wise to follow the guidelines since most the other reviewers would.

I'll put some sample guidelines, so people don't wonder why their listing was not accepted.

OneMarket does include Trustless Escrow, but this will not help for bigger purchases like cars, as putting down double money for the seller and buyer is impractical here.  Therefore, for bigger purchases someone will need to take up the charge for creating OneMarkets first Escrow Service to facilitate transactions for buyers and sellers.  Good business opportunity here for someone, whoever wants to start working on that website Wink.

::Community Guidelines::

Items with a * are subject to interpretation by the reviewer and considered risky listings to attempt to get on the network and you will need to supply evidence to prove your claim that your listing is legal where you reside.

- No Violence (This is NEVER accepted)
- No Illegal Drugs* (Again, legal in certain locations, marijuana in Colorado, USA for example)
- No Prostitution* (Certain locations this is legal, Nevada, USA for example)
- No Illegal Weapons* (Buying certain types of firearms might be legal, Texas, USA for example)

This is what I could think off very shortly off the top of my head.  Please feel free to add to this.  I'll edit this thread with suggestions.



Two things, one is how does a user become a reviewer? If it's just any user with Cloak in their wallet what stops me from splitting my cloak up into a bunch of wallets and getting a bunch of votes? Another thing is that for those of us wishing to develop 3rd party addons for one market or sidechains or escrow systsems, it would be really helpful to know what you're planning in terms of an exposed wallet api or rpc commands.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 14/07/2014, 03:50:08 UTC
Yea I fucked myself with this coin, i panic' sold way to earlier, then somebody told me it was going to .002 so i bought in again at the worst fucking time... now Im in the hole at least 2 BTC, when I should be up around 3-4 BTC on this coin......... FUCK MAN This is starting to make me nervous.............

It's cool man. CoolStoryTeller and all the other butthurts in this thread will bring the price back down so you can buy in again if you want.


Don't listen to Kitaco/ocatocat/tacoFUD. She is just running you around by her own admission:

Quote
Ok so, you're stifling discussion so THEY don't see that kind of discussion?
No, I don't think I am stiffling discussion
I can see why you feel censroed, but you're clearly acting out. Any tone of reasonability is entirely absent from your text.
It's fine now, but it wasn't before
it isn't often
I wasn't in the channel
cst should've been banned as well
Maybe, he did get pretty damn butthurt
but you were having a go at him
But, everyone targeted me. Of course Smiley
you know you love running him around
Yep, just him.
Of course they did! you're as subtle as a cow in heat
Nah, they were all butthurt!
Yeah, just like me?
Just like you
I saw it
You even wanted my bot banned!
And said I'd be back!
I am pretty butthurt, I've been having trouble pooping.
little bit of spotting, I don't like to see that. Needs more fiber
Oh that wont be good for your investors
Yeah, well you are all over bct crying
You'll need fiber, prep h, and bleach
so you are back
Nah I'm not back
And I'm not crying. I'm making others look like fools and wasting their time on a boring sunday night
I don't feel like I'm wasting my time any more than you do
I'm having fun, I've got archer going on, my wife is beside me cruising around minecraft. Life is good
That and you are fun to watch, if nothing else.
I just keep CST going Cheesy
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 14/07/2014, 02:17:26 UTC
2014-07-11 15:11:39      so alty, since you're encouraging them you must have mined a good amount of cloak to make it worth the incentives
2014-07-11 15:12:01   <@alty>   of course, I got over 200K
2014-07-11 15:12:15   <@alty>   not from mining

Your dumb ass point being? btw I truly don't give 2 fucks how much he has. If he has 200k. good for him. He's a lot smarter than you or I.

Actually the quote was he got it from mining. I thought it was worth asking and alty was completely upfront. Nice that you edited it.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 13/07/2014, 19:10:45 UTC
i just updated my wallet to v1.9.6.0

i have 0 active connection Huh

Download the nodes in the block explorer and put the conf file in the %appdata% Cloakcoin


do u have the link please?
thanks!

The problem is the OP is too long no one wants to read it. Links are there.

http://cloak.blockexplorer.cc/nodes/

Copy those nodes to your conf file.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 12/07/2014, 07:10:54 UTC
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 11/07/2014, 17:27:35 UTC
Ad hominem. Again.

How's this for an argument -

You are the public, and disclosing security vulnerabilities affecting financial systems to the public without giving developers ample time to solve the issue is unethical. If one of the other devs is contacting TheDagger trying to get some information or participate in a global PoS fix and TheDagger isn't permitting their contribution, that's one thing - but I haven't seen a single developer asking for the description of this issue just users who could potentially abuse it not fix it. If you're a coin dev, you should have been PMing TheDagger on Sunday when this issue was announced asking for more details or to contribute. As is it just looks like scared investors wanting more information than they are entitled to. Even if a dev were to pop out of the woodwork now and ask for details on the PoS issue, I as a developer wouldn't give it to them. They didn't take the Cloak devs seriously about the issue in the first place, they aren't taking them seriously now. Cloak devs shouldn't be working for free for people who aren't interested, invested, or willing to contribute to a fix.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 10/07/2014, 04:10:17 UTC
I never thought pos is a good idea. A health market need quite day trade volume.

if anyone wait coin sakes, the price will not pump

Coin staking reduces total circulating coin supply which greatly increases potential price movement due to low volume. The trick is creating a PoS system that has incentives enough to encourage staking.
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Re: [ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA
by
mrrgnome
on 10/07/2014, 00:01:17 UTC
Update:

PoSA Dev has been working for 36 hours straight to hit our (self imposed) deadline, he needs to have a short break to recharge and will be back on the case during the night as it's early evening his time.

In about 12 hours time we'll do another review and update of the situation and with any luck to say... It's done!

CLOAK team is just as excited as everyone else to get the next stages out and we are doing everything in our power to make it happen asap.

Thanks for having a just a little bit more patience.


Take your time, plan for launch support, and don't blow your load too soon. Keep the PoS fix under wraps for a week or two. Keep up the good work.