still waiting for that 30 to 300 jump eh?  Don't worry, Lynn will always be your cheerleader no matter what price Doge ends up

and where is that manfred guy and his "energy-backs-PoW" coin bull.  Since price is so low now, what happened to the energy that was backing dogecoin?  Did we finally find a cold-fusion reactor to make cheap dogecoins?

retarded logic.  So your goal of selling BTC would always dependent on electricity and time regardless of how much you spent to buy the miner?  How do you even price your time?  This is just retarded thinking.  I'm not even to bother to argue with you anymore.  And you keep mentioning this $500-600 cost to produce BTC.  Are you saying your time and electricity cost that much to produce each coin?  

And I'm not going to even delve into your convoluted/nonsensical logic.  

Simply put, the market for a coin does not care how much you put into producing the coins.   And if you want to price your coin differently from the market price, the market is not going to care because either you will be 1. selling your coins way below market price.  2. fail to sell your coins because you are pricing them too high.

Simplest test to prove you and Manfred wrong is that these other PoW coins, aside from BTC (since demand is fairly high for BTC), is that these coins going to drop in value regardless of electricity cost it took to mine them.  These coins are going to drop in value because there is too much supply and not enough demand.  

And no, i'm not saying gold is backed by anything.  Gold price is determined by supply/demand like everything is in a capitalist market.  Learn some economics please.   There is no "backing" unless someone guarantees a preset exchange rate to enable you convert two commodities/currencies back and forth.

And I just love your 20% speculation part of your argument, franky, you want other people to come up with statistics yet you are just making statistics up.  Rofl. 

Gold 50 years means it was on the gold standard, read my post again, if it's gold standard, what the hell does speculative and spot price have to do with Dollar / Gold exchange rate?  Stop making up stuff

Another big flaw in your arguments.  Your posts all assume that the price of bitcoin is driven by production cost, but it is exactly the opposite.  The price of bitcoin is actually driving production cost.  Your $500-$600 figure all include the mining equipment costs, and what determines the equipment costs?  You think the makers of these equipments price them according to their material cost? Yea fat chance.  Why do you think BTC miners are all being sold/bought in BTC?  Or at least priced according to BTCs?  

Furthermore, cost of production in no way prevents a coin from dropping below production cost.  Let's say something catastrophic happens, such as bitcoin gets attacked via 51%, or has a major fork, what prevents it from dropping below this magical $500 threshold of yours?  And you think your miners will still cost the same amount of BTCs compared to before this drop? 

Why do you think all scrypt PoW coins drop in value so much lately such as aurora or doge or any other PoW?  You think it's because the cost of production is low? Tell that to the thousands of people that bought the gridseed blades for $1600 just a couple of months ago.   

Value of BTC comes completely from confidence in the coin, just like any other PoW or PoS coin.  But people's confidence is a lot higher in BTC than any other coins because BTC has been out there much longer.  And if BTC falls below $500, the miner prices will adjust accordingly. 

And stop talking only about Bitcoin in your arguments.  This guy created his long winded thread to tout all PoW coins.  Why are most of the alt scrypt PoW coins dropping despite the production costs? 

Another guy that wants to "invent" what "backed by" means.  If the US Dollar is BACKED by gold, then the exchange rate is set by the US Treasury, 1 dollar for certain amount of gold.  In effect, U.S Dollar price no longer fluctuates against gold; because for every dollar, there is an equivalent amount of gold kept at Ft. Knox.  What is all this mumble jumble about speculated price and local spot price and admin fee???  What the heck are you talking about?  Are you talking about today's U.S. Dollar?  The US Dollar has been off the gold standard since the 1970s, aka US dollar is not backed by gold anymore.  In fact, no currency is backed by gold anymore in today's world.  

Franky, just read my most recent post.  You need to learn a thing or two about production cost, and what it really took to product ALL BITCOINS ON AVERAGE.

Retarded argument.  "someone has done $600 dollars worth of work".  Are you assuming that it ALWAYS took $600 of work to produce these coins?  What if bitcoin price drops to $300 the next day, are you going to change your argument to "someone has done $300 dollars worth of work"?  How is that "backing" exactly?  Do you even know how many bitcoins were produced when the production cost was only $10, $50, and $100 (hint, a whole lot more than when the BTCs that were produced at $600)? 

Your argument would be partially correct if bitcoin was a PERISHABLE consumable commodity, where the end buyer chooses to consume the commodity or modify it into some other kind of product, such as coffee, corn, etc.  And the original commodity is used up in the process of production (i.e. no longer exists).  If this is the case, the original producer of the commodity will always take the production cost into consideration.  And I stress perishable because the commodity has a very short lifespan if not consumed, hence the commodity price *SHOULD* closely follow the production cost because the production cost happened just *recently*.  Unlike your flawed argument that bitcoin "cost $600 to produced", which is obviously not true for coins made 2 years ago, last year, or even 6 months ago. 

And I said *partially* correct.  This is because even in the case of these perishable consumable commodities, the price is still mostly driven by supply/demand.  Think about it.  If the market demand stays constant for corn, and there is a GREAT harvest for corn.  Corn supply will greatly exceed demand, and the price will drop.   This is where the importance of *perishable* part comes in.  If the farmer cannot sell the corn in time, it will go bad, hence he has to reduce the price even if it meant that the production cost exceeds the prices he sells at (i.e. selling at a loss). 

So the lesson for you today is that production cost is only a small factor in determining market price, even for perishable consumable commodities (which BTC is obviously not, since once it's mined, it's mined, it does not expire.)  Everything is driven by supply/demand.  So there is no backing from production costs whatsoever.  Furthermore, you don't even bother to analyze what is the average cost to produce all bitcoins, instead of the current cost of production, which makes your entire argument fall apart in 2 seconds (i'm just really sad no one else pointed this out, tells you the average IQ of people on this forum).

I love a guy that creates a whole long freaking post to talk about PoW being "backed" by energy when he has no clue what "backed" even means

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7624335#msg7624335

To be backed by energy, your exchange rate back to energy cannot change, just like when dollar was backed by gold until the 1970s (http://money.howstuffworks.com/currency7.htm).  It has to be set at a constant exchange rate and be guaranteed by some kind of entity that you can exchange the coin back to "energy cost" that it ORIGINALLY took to produce these coins.  Your oh-so-dear PoW coin values fluctuates with no regard whatsoever to what energy costs to produce these coins.  And it isn't backed by anybody.

A perfect analogy for your flawed argument is like saying "just because a stock X is dollar denominated (traded in US dollars), it is backed by the US Dollars" (and somehow that prevents it from dropping in value).  Yes it is worth a certain amount of US dollars but that amount is always changing.  A stock can be worth $50 one day and drop to $1 the next if people loses confidence in that stock (or even $0 if the company goes bankrupt).  The value of the US Dollar does not affect the stock price or vice versa.  

Same thing with PoW coins.  If people loses confidence in a coin, no matter if it's PoW (or even PoS for that matter, but i'm only concentrating on your flawed premise, which is what your argument is based on), it is going to drop regardless, no matter how much "energy" you put into making this coin a week ago, or a month ago, or a year ago.  This is the proof that there is NO "BACKING" of any kind from energy.  Plus no entity would guarantee that "backing" of yours.

Don't talk about stuff that's over your head please.  

Nice sarcasm.  Coming from the guy that said PoW is "backed" by energy (who obviously has no clue what "backed" even means, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7624335#msg7624335), I think we should take our chances changing it to a PoS coin.  If we change it right now, somehow I have a feeling 85 billion coins (with hopefully a low inflation rate) is going to sound a whole lot better than 100 billion + 5 billion every year.  And I love your definition of "unlimited" by the way.  I guess there must be different levels of inifinity.  So if 85 billion is infinity, PoW dogecoin with 100 billion + 5 billion a year must mean infinity + 20 billion? is that how your math works?

Way to further make up/exaggerate things.  You are ALMOST at the level of Lynn when it comes to making ignorant statements (the difference between you and him? at least you TRY to make yourself sound smart), and that is pretty sad.

Hey, negativity will only get you labeled a troll around here.  Do it with caution  

By the "long-con" you don't mean the people that constantly try to pump the coin in this thread, do you?

I still think you guys are way too worried about attack on this coin than what truly is making this coin going to the dumpsters.  Why do you think BTC rises even when ghash reached 51%+?  I don't think people care about a 51% attack until it HAS happened.  That's the typical investor mentality -- it's not a problem until the problem has happened.  Worry about the demand/supply of dogecoin, that's what's making it go down.

That's what I have been saying all along, but our diehard doge supporters here believe the coin can rebound without any kind of intervention.  Sorry diehard shibes, you need the federal reserve to step in and start some serious quantitative easing, or convince your dear leader dev to change it to POS

Actually I started out just telling people on this thread, to those who have any little rationality left and to those would would listen, why doge was falling and would keep falling, then everyone got on my ass telling me i'm a troll just because I predicted doge would fall.  God forbid anyone to say anything bad about dogecoin.  I didn't know this was a fascist thread.  It's not a troll if i have a good reasoning behind why doge would be falling.  And I have been right.

If you have something to disprove my reasons, then have a good counter argument.  All i'm seeing on this thread is some blind prediction that dogecoin will rebound without any logical reasoning or some serious ridiculous self-denials.  

Ridiculous stuff I have heard from people on this forum about why doge will rise/or stop falling:

lynn: Japan has a debt of 1000 Trillion yen! (Or 1 quadrillion.) When we put it in perspective vs. fiat, there really isn't that many dogecoins  (typical lynn talking about stuff he has no idea about.  See how I made fun of his post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7201666#msg7201666)

testcoin:  Doge price is more stable now as compared to a few days ago. Price actually moves up a little bit (in USD value) from the bottom. Don't forget Bitcoin price keeps rising these days (another dumb post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7623777#msg7623777)

manfred: PoW is backed by energy. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it.  (most ridiculous thing I have ever heard: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7624335#msg7624335)

manfred: +1 bargain of the year.  be greedy when others are fearful.  (how is that greed treating you?  June 26th, price was at 52.  how much money you made so far?  Right now doge at 37)

doge_speculator:  When you said that doge/usd is a "mature market" with "small spreads" you kinda gave yourself away as not knowing what the fuck you're talking about especially in regards to trading and markets....It's in its infancy. As far as small spreads go... clearly you've never traded forex. the spread on doge is regularly 1500+ basis points on the highest volume exchanges. that's fucking enormous kid. (ok see how I shredded his post.  Last post he ever made, grabbed his tail and ran.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7160247#msg7160247)

bluepixie: Hope you guys got some doge under 60, we will never see that again. This is going to be GREAT!!! (Tony the tiger says it's going to be GRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEATTTTTT! And by the way, this was the last post Tony has posted for dogecoin, apparently he felt it was so GREAT, he bought silkcoins instead of dogecoins.  That was his last post at dogecoin thread, by the way, rofl. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7116984#msg7116984)

lynn: And if the people who only care about the money get the upper end, then I prefer to have an honourable defeat than to make money with them.  (sorry Lynn you forgetting who is the enemy here, i'm not the one making doge fall.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7114608#msg7114608)

lynn: Sceptics like you make me even more motivated to invest in doge; just to have the pleasure of proving you wrong (looks like that pleasure is all mine.  And it's spelled "Skeptics", genius.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7101807#msg7101807)

lynn: Why are you even posting here? To convince us doge is worth nothing, so you can buy cheaper? That won't work. (yea right i'm going to buy more doge)

lynn: A crash that has been going on for less than two weeks is not a reason to affirm that dogecoin is dying; it's just the normal fluctuations of a commodity with a small market cap.  (this was posted when doge was in the 70s)

lynn: The community I mentionned, is the one that managed to build a well in Africa, who sponsored a nascar driver and votes for him 3 million times.  (ok but how does this support doge from falling, awareness isn't same thing as demand.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7101474#msg7101474)

mashac:  Lol @ this dumb troll, who is trying very very hard to create a panic dump and failing miserably.... (I guess either I was right all along or my devious plan to create the panic dump succeeded?  this was posted on June 7th, and now even he says "Probable 'mayday' for Dogecoin...." https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=361813.msg7474725#msg7474725 LOL)

And please, feel free to look at all my past posts.  There are some hilarious ones I'm too lazy to go back to find all.  

So what is a "good" day exactly lynn.  You tell me a good day to come talk to you.  Is today a good day?  If you are right, i think you will be hearing from me a lot for the next few months...and you know what that means.

Sorry i haven't been on the forum lately.  Did you miss me that I didn't shred your posts everyday?  I felt like I didn't need to say anything the past couple of weeks, just let the market do God's work, and balance out this supply/demand curve for dogecoin (aka going down).

hahaha, sorry i don't need your help, especially on buying this piece of crap coin in this market.  There are much safer investments with better risk/reward ratios.  If you really did made serious money (and i'm not talking about $20 lunch money) by buying dogecoin, more power to you.  If you are just pulling rabbits out of your ass and making the whole thing up to impress me, then you are just another pathetic doge poser who's living in lala land. 

Bear market is only a goldmine if there are semi-big swings or if shorting is possible.  For crypto that you can only hold long positions, a bear market is not fun to play with unless you sit in front of your computer 24/7.

This is almost too easy, i dont even need to edit my previous post:


By the way, i keep bringing this up to make fun of you, you dont need to keep mentioning it's a historical fact, we all know that.  I'm making fun of your optimism from way back (and even now, still).  Just a reminder of how dumb you were (and still are).

And the only reason doge had that rally was because it was still a young currency, the market hadn't been able to price the coin efficiently (which you can tell by the severe swings of the prices).  It's like an IPO of any stock, it will shoot up and fall down hard.  But current market conditions is much more different from before, so yea, let's keep dreaming about that 60 (i mean 38, sorry) to 300 rise. 

Is that the best you can do?  I think you should join the debate team.  You would win every argument.  Whenever someone says something, you just say "I dont give a fuck about what you have to say", and you win that argument instantly.  

Everyone already knows i have no hope for doge, but i give a clear line of reasoning to why I have no hope for it.  All you blind prophets of dogecoin either thinks it will goto the moon in an imaginary rocket despite the market conditions, or choose to ignore reality, or make some ridiculous argument that I can shred in less than 5 minutes, especially Lynn's posts, and the guy that's still waiting for the 60 to 300 rebound.


Have a nice Day! :-)

The stupidest statement of the century.  Do you even know what it means to be "backed" by something?  If it's backed by something, you can convert it back and forth, and at the ORIGINAL and PRESET rate of conversion.  Can you convert dogecoin back to the energy that you spent to mine it in the first place?   Once doge is mined by whatever electricity you spent, or whatever your investment in the scrypt miner, that's it.  You can't ever convert it back.  You can only convert it to other coins/money based on the CURRENT market rate.  

When the US dollar was still on the gold standard until the early 1970s, it was "BACKED" by gold, meaning a dollar is always worth a certain amount of gold, and that the US treasury held the same amount of gold as it had money in circulation.  So how much is your doge worth in terms of electricity if it's backed by energy?  

People try to say stuff they have no idea about.  This is why doge is falling.  Uneducated and plain moronic dogecoin supporters

You guys really think this will make doge rise?  Do you know what happens when you use websites like these to spend your doge?  They will exchange it to BTC or USD immediately after.  It's basically same thing as you exchanging your doge to BTC or doge to USD and spend it yourself except now you paying 2% extra fee to use their service (instead of the normal .25% fee you pay at cryptsy, etc).  And how is this going to widen the acceptance of doge exactly?  You, the user of this website, already has dogecoin.  You are basically hiring a middleman to do the exchange that you can do in 2 seconds.