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Nextcoin is independent too. Just beause the founder also owns DGEX doesn't mean it's affiliated with DGEX. It isn't
You are allowed to discuss anything there.
- false:You are allowed to discuss anything there.
Just for the record before I delete the unauthorized advertisement on nextcoin.org, such an obvious agenda for downplaying competition on their own yard - and trying to score the points home for that is, well, almost tragicomic;
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Thanks for digging this quote up. Nextcoin.org is absolutely affiliated by DGEX, made clear by Graviton weeks ago.
I've been saying this for weeks: new people are trying to get involved with NXT. Most people don't have time to page through 20-30 pages of posts to get information they need to take action. Developers should migrate to a forum 1) affiliated with NXT and 2) start posting in dedicated threads that are focused on one topic. This is a simple organizational strategy that should increase productivity and save time.
There's no reason this thread can't exist for pub chatter. Important discussions should be focused in dedicated topics. Marketing, fund allocation, etc.
nexern, marcus, minus - What are the ETA's of your clients?
2014.
Since it's January, would you happen to have a better estimate?
Are you guys aware Ethereum has a tentative launch date of September/October 2014? You have a window here.
Yes, we aware. But it doesn't really matter coz Nxt and Ethereum have different market niches. Imho.
What niches are you referring to?
Hi guys,
I'm a fish here and I hardly understand all you talk about. However, I have read everysingle page of this thread and I own a few thousands (not many) NXT.
Straight to the point: what I see from the outside is that time and money is been wasted in things that are not so important. Sbdy said "better think about a good voting system now than change it later". People, we CAN'T have the best product from the beginning. Things have to appear and then you can see the problems it arises and improves it. Lots of time is being wasted in important things but without reaching a conclusion (beause it's descentralized and it's difficult...) and this is damaging NXT because it will have competitors soon plus expectatives are going down (yes, it's a long term thing, but damnit, what's the point anyway?). I suggest to decide for something fairly good for each thing (gold, aluminum? It doesn't matter now, brands can be changed, specially when they haven't been heavily promoted yet, don't talk so much about these tings that don't affect NXT performance so much) and if needed, change or improve it in the future.
Remember that the best product can never be the first one released. You need something being adapted and while community grows, NXT will be improved and reach the final stage when it will be a real product. We are trying to build the house from the roof.
On the other hand, I don't understand what you are doing with marketing. It's important to reach people massively, true. But you want to spend crazy money on things with little ROI. Take redbull for instance: they knew they couldn't go for big things because they were limited and therefore, decided to invest in LOTS of little things (all alternative sports) in order to become big and popular.
Having said that, I admit it's easy to criticise without giving clear solutions, but I'm not an expert and don't know how to do it + lack of time. But I hope that those who can make this happen will take this into consideration, either they agree or not, at least to think about this.
EDIT: I have to sy you are doing a BIIIIIIG effort and this is highly appreciated. I'm just giving my two cents to try to make it better in the only way I can.
I'm a fish here and I hardly understand all you talk about. However, I have read everysingle page of this thread and I own a few thousands (not many) NXT.
Straight to the point: what I see from the outside is that time and money is been wasted in things that are not so important. Sbdy said "better think about a good voting system now than change it later". People, we CAN'T have the best product from the beginning. Things have to appear and then you can see the problems it arises and improves it. Lots of time is being wasted in important things but without reaching a conclusion (beause it's descentralized and it's difficult...) and this is damaging NXT because it will have competitors soon plus expectatives are going down (yes, it's a long term thing, but damnit, what's the point anyway?). I suggest to decide for something fairly good for each thing (gold, aluminum? It doesn't matter now, brands can be changed, specially when they haven't been heavily promoted yet, don't talk so much about these tings that don't affect NXT performance so much) and if needed, change or improve it in the future.
Remember that the best product can never be the first one released. You need something being adapted and while community grows, NXT will be improved and reach the final stage when it will be a real product. We are trying to build the house from the roof.
On the other hand, I don't understand what you are doing with marketing. It's important to reach people massively, true. But you want to spend crazy money on things with little ROI. Take redbull for instance: they knew they couldn't go for big things because they were limited and therefore, decided to invest in LOTS of little things (all alternative sports) in order to become big and popular.
Having said that, I admit it's easy to criticise without giving clear solutions, but I'm not an expert and don't know how to do it + lack of time. But I hope that those who can make this happen will take this into consideration, either they agree or not, at least to think about this.
EDIT: I have to sy you are doing a BIIIIIIG effort and this is highly appreciated. I'm just giving my two cents to try to make it better in the only way I can.
The reason is because of a reluctance to get organized. No one will even address the possibility that it may be more efficient to communicate in dedicated threads with focused discussion rather than one thread with 50 topics floating around.
We're so decentralized, we can't even get a speaker on a plane to represent 'us'
We're so decentralized, if we had models like Bitpay, they would all be wearing different outfits at different conferences
We're so decentralized, voting on how to vote seems too central
We're so decentralized, we don't even agree on know how to pronounce our own eco-system
This can be converted to some smart joke. Promotional joke. Good smart humor can be very serious when appers in right place, in right time.We're so decentralized, if we had models like Bitpay, they would all be wearing different outfits at different conferences
We're so decentralized, voting on how to vote seems too central
We're so decentralized, we don't even agree on know how to pronounce our own eco-system
It's not really a joke, it looks like a problem.
Even big promotion moves forward, more or less, regardless on lack of centralization.
Again, organization in the allocation of information, human and capital resources is being confused with organizational architecture.
We're so decentralized, we can't even get a speaker on a plane to represent 'us'
We're so decentralized, if we had models like Bitpay, they would all be wearing different outfits at different conferences
We're so decentralized, voting on how to vote seems too central
We're so decentralized, we don't even agree on know how to pronounce our own eco-system
This can be converted to some smart joke. Promotional joke. Good smart humor can be very serious when appers in right place, in right time.We're so decentralized, if we had models like Bitpay, they would all be wearing different outfits at different conferences
We're so decentralized, voting on how to vote seems too central
We're so decentralized, we don't even agree on know how to pronounce our own eco-system
It's not really a joke, it looks like a problem.
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
Probably forever. I like it. This place is like a noisy and boisterous pub full of interesting people, a fun place to be.
https://nxtchg.com/img/var/cheers.jpg
+1. Absolutely.
Sometimes you want to go... where NOBODY knows your real name...
All joking aside, there's no reason why this thread couldn't still exist for general chatter. I think it's just as entertaining as you all, but I just don't think it's conducive to moving the project along as fast as it can go. As others have brought up, there's some fierce competition coming soon from Ethereum et al. Regardless of what you think about how they are structured with "heads" or "corporate leaders", I can guarantee they are organized in the sense that I am talking about: effective and efficient use of information, human and capital resources. I honestly think keeping big topic discussions going on in one thread is the equivalent of 50 people in one room shouting trying to get things done. Yes, it's possible to progress this way, but not as quickly and focused as they can be if discussion was held in dedicated threads.
I've yet to hear why others think keeping discussion about voting, marketing, client problems, when Cryptsy will add, a social network, what the LTB 1 minute spot will sound like, the rate of NXT/BTC, Bitcoin Miami updates, etc in ONE thread is a more effective way of communication rather than having dedicated topics for example:
Topic
Description
Progress Update
Timeline
Problems That Need Solutions
Bounties
why not lobby the bitcointalk mods to add a new section on the front page below bitcoin discussion.. have a nextcoin discussion?? 
The mods already showed to have negative attitude to Nxt. At least one of them.
We need to get organized somehow and move to another place.
I would say it should be part of the marketing plan to move all of us to a well structured forum. We will have things done 10 times quicker.
But I guess thats the downside of having everything decetralized (kind of exciting tho haha)
You can get organized and remain de-centralized structurally. Don't confuse organization (meaning efficient and effective coordination of information, human and capital resources), a fundamental necessity to success, with the architectural design of the NXT ecosystem (decentralization).
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
Probably forever. I like it. This place is like a noisy and boisterous pub, a fun place to be.
Don't you think it would be more effective and productive to discuss individual, big topics such as the voting system, asset exchange, marketing etc. in their own threads? Wouldn't it be easier and more timely for people to catch up on things that are of immediate interest if they can be found in dedicated topics rather than having to page through 20 pages of a mixing pot of client problems, voting system discussion, Too Damn High memes, questions about when NXT is going to hit $1, etc? Come on Ricky James, you're one of the more sensible people around these parts.
why not lobby the bitcointalk mods to add a new section on the front page below bitcoin discussion.. have a nextcoin discussion??
Because I'd rather talk to people in the community about it. Why do people think this is the most effective way of discussing and solving problems? With the amount of back and forth discussion about the intricacies of a voting system, surely people must have better reasons to keep discussion of multiple issues in one thread other than tradition.
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
I have no problem following all topics. If anything, it's convenient to monitor only one thread instead of 5.
Yes, for now, but as the complexity of the NXT ecosystem grows (and it seems like many here are expecting some sort of exponential growth), this will be a poor form of organizing and sifting through information, no?
Once it becomes too much of a mess people will naturally head over to the NXT forums. The infrastructure is there, it may be used any time.
Don't you think development and organic project growth could be streamlined through focused discussion in dedicated topics?
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
I have no problem following all topics. If anything, it's convenient to monitor only one thread instead of 5.
Yes, for now, but as the complexity of the NXT ecosystem grows (and it seems like many here are expecting some sort of exponential growth), this will be a poor form of organizing and sifting through information, no?
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
Probably forever. I like it. This place is like a noisy and boisterous pub, a fun place to be.
Don't you think it would be more effective and productive to discuss individual, big topics such as the voting system, asset exchange, marketing etc. in their own threads? Wouldn't it be easier and more timely for people to catch up on things that are of immediate interest if they can be found in dedicated topics rather than having to page through 20 pages of a mixing pot of client problems, voting system discussion, Too Damn High memes, questions about when NXT is going to hit $1, etc? Come on Ricky James, you're one of the more sensible people around these parts.
One can always head over to the NXT forums, eh?
This thread has a different purpose, it's indeed a mix of everything (which makes it so interesting).
They can but it's lacking a network effect and support from core devs.
How much longer is discussion about 5 separate topics going to occur in one thread? Am I the only one who thinks this is an ineffective way of communicating?
Probably forever. I like it. This place is like a noisy and boisterous pub, a fun place to be.
Don't you think it would be more effective and productive to discuss individual, big topics such as the voting system, asset exchange, marketing etc. in their own threads? Wouldn't it be easier and more timely for people to catch up on things that are of immediate interest if they can be found in dedicated topics rather than having to page through 20 pages of a mixing pot of client problems, voting system discussion, Too Damn High memes, questions about when NXT is going to hit $1, etc? Come on Ricky James, you're one of the more sensible people around these parts.
"completely eliminates the threat of a 51% percent attack" can someone link me to some argument for this. it just doesn't make any sense to me.
Pardon me if I'm wrong (as I don't completely understand the technical aspects), but I think this has to do with transparent forging and a temporary penalty levied against nodes that go offline (in the case that someone were to acquire a 51% stake and try to fork the network).
Ready for what's NXT? Written from the ground up, NXT is the first true second generation crypto. NXT's unique 100% Proof of Stake security model and truly de-centralized architecture provide a platform for breakthrough and disruptive innovations. Transparent forging, arbitrary messaging, and de-centralized asset exchange are just a few of the innovative features that will help write the next big crypto story of 2014. With Transparent Forging, a proprietary technology unique to NXT, the network is capable of achieving instantly-secure transactions at Visa-level transaction volumes. Additionally, NXT's 100% Proof of Stake model completely eliminates the threat of a 51% percent attack, and does away with the enormous electrical and inflationary costs of blockchain security. With all of its exciting, promised features, NXT provides the best and most secure foundation for users and businesses alike. NXT, the Next Generation of Cryptocurrency.
The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural. Someone with 50% ownership on a company has a 50% right to decide something..
It's so easy. So why do you fighting over this so much?
I agree too, but this is only under the assumption that large stakeholders will always do things in the best interest of the currency's growth and health. However, I am sure at some point there could be large NXT stakeholders that would vote for something just not acceptable by a majority of the community and it would be interesting to see how that would play out in the actual decision making process.It's so easy. So why do you fighting over this so much?
They're not the majority. That's the point here.
Fortunately, our democratic systems do not work this way (not yet, I fear).
You should be allowed to say more if you spend more of you wealth:
Say, if you spend 1/10 of your wealth it's more than if somebody spend 1/10000 of theirs. It appears it's not so important to them.
NXT is an economic ecosystem, not a state. In PoS 1 NXT is equivalent to 1 person (like SSN, birth certificate, or whatever) because this is the only way to truly account for the validity of each NXT, so 1 NXT = 1 Vote. All other methods will be gamed by the rich to make the poor poorer. For example, using 1 account = 1 Vote, a large stakeholder can create 10k accounts easily, while a small stakeholder will go broke doing it. No matter what you do, the rich can always afford more accounts than the poor can. Thus voting on an account basis is unrealistic.
I think a good analogy would be (within the NXT ecosystem), 1 NXT = 1 Person, Account Owner = Representative. So if you own 10k NXT, you are their representative and represent their "views", but you cannot speak for all the NXTs under other representatives.
A larger holders vote should have weight proportional to their stake, but they should also pay a proportional fee to their total stake. That could be a significant cost, preventing impulsive, foolish or uneducated voting. It is the stake holders responsibility to vote in a responsible and educated manner. It is those who are pushing the changes (or dissenters) to make sure they are educated on what is being changed and why it is important/needs to be done. I can't see how anything else matters or why all these complicated, gameable voting systems are even being brought up.
not saying you are wrong but i just wanted to point out that a large stake holder already has a strong incentive not to make a bad decision. if he does it will lower the value of his stake.
i have stayed out of all the VS stuff until now voting on stuff really concerns me. unless tere is something to prevent someone from making a vote to steal money from someone, or something along those lines, it shouldnt be done at all.
IMO the best way with voting is to make the fee for the vote proportional to the stake.
I am in favor of 1 vote : 1 NXT. I disagree with tacking on a progressive tax for voting purposes.
Mark Cuban would not invest in NXT in its current state. I think those funds would be put to better use in development.
The goal behind contacting Mark is to inform him about NXT. Hopefully once he knows about NXT, he will let others know about NXT. This is no different than me or you telling our friends about NXT. Mark just has broader exposure. The goal is to empower individuals.
I give NXT to my friends all the time. I'd be willing to give Mark some NXT as a friendly gesture.
If the goal is exposure then by all means, but people talking about sending him 100k+ NXT are being foolish. That's NXT that should be spent on development.