Back OT..

Looks like we're going to pull back to 19.5k-20k, then I think the 4-week cup and handle will complete, and next leg (next weekend?) will push up to 33k.

Anyone got a list of active nodes for ECcoin?

Syncing incredibly slowly, and only got these 3 nodes..

129.21.141.5
121.73.87.155
129.21.141.94

Can't wait until the database version of the daemon is released - I've just resumed sync using an older copy of my blockchain from another machine, and bitmonerod is using 5.7G of memory to hold the blockchain.

Anyone watching this thread about XMR?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.0

If xbc is right/honest and such a vulnerability exists, it's probably an issue for BBR too, as the vulnerability is allegedly in the ring-signature implementation (i.e. the cryptonote protocol).

Question is - is there such a vulnerability, or is it a market-moving FUD collusion?

edit: Choice of proposed names sucks.  Boolberry is notably superior from a marketing perspective.  Conservative is boring.

Despite all the fuss about XBC's comments, IMO the chart looks pretty good.

Noteworthy elements:

Fib retracement is based on max open/close and has been fairly respected.
Williams %R and RSI are both looking oversold (not included on this chart)
The huge volume yesterday resulted in a pretty small downward candle - market is soaking up a lot of selling.



And in case my img tag above doesn't work, here's what I'm talking about:  http://i.imgur.com/TSGqUEe.png

Looks like the old version is gone and replaced completely with the V2 one?

I actually preferred the old charts - specifically, the volume bars were useful, rather than an averaged curve shown in the v2 charts.

However, thanks xchrisx for working on the site to overcome the traffic issues!

You really do have anger management issues don't you?

You're getting boring, time for me to find the ignore list function on these forums.

So I was weighing up whether it was worth mining or buying TIPS to increase my holding from miniscule to tiny.. and noticed that the front post could do with some major cleanup.

Can someone who reads this update the first post?  icanprogram? fargusson?

Here's the working pools in the list:

http://fedora.pcfil.com/
http://chickenstrips.net/
http://fedora.coin-pool.org/
https://www.multipool.us/  (TIPS not enabled on multiport any more - not sure if TIPS are mineable here?)
https://www.cryptopoolmining.com/tips/
https://tips.pool.enterprises/
https://coinking.io/

And these look like they're no longer around:

http://tips.notnull.org/
http://www.verters.com/mvpool/fedoracoin
https://minr.es/
http://tips.4upool.com/
http://coinminer.net:19988/static/
http://cloud.epools.eu/tips/
http://tips.dnsbl.ro/

Current network hashrate is around 435MHs, so its currently cheaper to just buy TIPS on market than mine it with a rental rig, if the goal is to accumulate TIPS

There's pro's and con's to using btctalk to seek devs.  

In favour of a FedoraCoin forum is that any developers who've gone there to read will be more committed to seeing Fedoracoin do well, versus devs who might be attracted on btctalk by the payment model, but are thus equally likely to be lured off project by something promising bigger rewards.

In favour of btctalk is the sheer exposure - lots of eyes here to read.

My personal preference is to have a separate Fedora forum for idea generation/fleshing out/preparation, and ideally to have interested developers head there from links here.  That way only ones interested enough to click the link will end up reading the project blurb.  

I don't think there's a massive rush - crypto is an area where getting it right is more important than being first, and the only impatient ones are the traders who want to pump prices and make profit.

The challenge at this stage will always be finding competent devs who are motivated to deliver.  Heck, the number of ideas I've got floating around has me wanting to pick up coding again and get to grips with blockchains (used to write java/c++ in the late 90's).  

I have just started re-reading Design Patterns to refresh my memory, and wondering where my reference books are (I think I recycled a lot of them a few years ago ), but small kids, work and other committed hobbies are in the way, so unless I suddenly get rich enough not to need to work, its a low priority.


Nice idea - something like tinyurl for addresses.  Had me looking into domain names lol.. tip.pr seems to be available.

The mechanics are surprisingly complex for a simple idea tho - lots of questions and use-cases to resolve.  I guess thats the nature of a new market - no clear cut and established processes to follow.

e.g.
How/when does translation of the tip.pr url happen to TIPS address - in the tipper's client?  via an intermediary app/wallet?
What currencies would tippers tip in?  only TIPS?  or BTC/LTC and convert implicitly to TIPS?  even fiat (paypal/creditcard) like worldof.tips?
How to make money to fund the service/site?  Percentage of tips?  Percentage of converted currencies? (i.e. make it free for TIPS->TIPS and encourage uptake)
Which legal jurisdictions can this be done in without problems?

Gah.. need dev skills again.


Cryptsy is the most liquid market for TIPS - currently you can buy at 0.00000006 LTC, or sit it out in the queue at 5 and hope the price falls.

Possibly target buskers?  (people who play music in public for tips - its a british term; my american friends thought I made the word up initially!)

If we can find a way to target buskers so that they put a QR code address and a brief explanation that it can be used to tip real currency using Fedora TIPS without the hassle of needing to find small change, that would be good exposure to the general populace.

One (big) challenge is its tricky to talk an average person through the whole exchange mechanism to go from fiat currency to TIPS (i.e. buy LTC/BTC without using credit card/paypal, join an exchange, exchange for TIPS, send to own wallet.. not exactly simple for most people).

Thats very nice of you to say so.   Being new to the current incarnation of the cryptosphere, I'll probably be around a fair bit - I usually throw myself fairly deeply into new hobbies!


Excuse the brain dump and the idea hijack; its not intended as a hijack - I just like to reason this kind of idea into a model to assess feasibility, and doing it in public gives others a framework for discussing the idea further).. its akin to what I do for a living these days.  My background is needs analysis and solution development, originally software solutions, these days process-based.

Note that not all my blurb below is original - its derivative based on the work of id10tothe9 above, hence some overlap (like using 10's good idea of QR codes)

And also excuse any incomplete sentences, typos etc. - I've literally just written it all down and given it a rough structure, its not a polished document!



Here's a rough process..

1.  Identify a problem
2.  Identify the user group(s) who need a solution
3.  Propose/develop a solution
4.  Marketing

So lets apply it to the above post by id10tothe9 titled Project proposition to spread the use of FedoraCoin as a tipping currency in the physical world

1. Problem

There is one big inherent problem with tipping in general.  I know people who work in hospitality, and the number of establishments where tip-distribution to staff is done on an uneven basis, or just not passed on to staff (especially credit-card tips added onto the bill) is disturbingly high.  To the point where when I'm paying for dinner with a credit card, I'll still leave a cash tip, as it has a higher chance of being disbursed to the staff.

2. User group(s)

• Hospitality employees, casual staff, and ethical owners of hospitality-industry businesses
• People who want to tip

3.  Solution

Implement a piece of software either as a separate tool, or as features added to the Fedora wallet.  

The goal would be to provide a "front-end" address, and then automatically distribute tips sent to that address to an arbitrary number of registered addresses.

Useful features:

• QR codes to both present the front-end tip address, and also to register the wallets of tippees would be the ideal way to do it - phones are omnipresent these days.  e.g. Waiter A opens his TIPS wallet, generates an address, and then uses a wallet function to show a QR code which can be scanned by the "master tipping wallet" to register it
• Optional automated de-registration of tippee addresses
• Ability to export QR code from the (master) wallet as an image file (for simple printing or inclusion on menus/cards/napkins/etc., or just so the cafe owner can keep his staff wallet addresses handy to register without needing them to open their wallet each time)
• Ability to schedule distribution from master address to registered addresses using an event-based approach (1-n specified times, or regular repeating intervals e.g. hourly) - Note time intervals rather than value-based distribution because that way it can be aligned with the shift roster, and because if its done by value and its a bad night/day, its possible noone would get paid!).
• Automatic distribution of the tip "pot" immediately before any addresses are de-registered
• Tipper receipt for initial tip
• Tipper notification of disbursement of tip to n number of employees
• Tippee notification of which/how many wallets received the tip they just got (so they can police the establishment owners - to make sure owners don't add extra addresses for themselves etc.)

4.  Marketing

Being needs-driven, once marketing is underway, the user groups will actually help with the rollout and awareness-raising of their own volition as the solution directly fixes problems they have.

Pick marketing channels where hospitality staff will come across them.. online ones (twitter/fb) and physical ones (bars - seriously, everyone I've met who works in hospitality goes through  a phase of drinking a lot after-hours with their work mates).  E.g. print some drink mats (aka coasters) with "fed up with your tips being stolen?" and a URL to the tool/info will get them picked up and taken home for investigation.

If it can be developed, and announced/communicated well enough, hospitality-industry staff will start using the tool because they want the solution, so the primary marketing barrier becomes getting tippers to have a wallet and some fedora TIPS to tip with.  This isn't as hard as it sounds - tipping is something people often lack confidence in in two key ways.  a) what the "right" amount should be, and b) whether the tippee's will actually receive it.  Point (a) is something we can't fix, but (b) is something which can definitely be addressed using the tool outlined above.

If establishments are showing the address and have a note about what its for, some tippers will follow the link and sort themselves out with a wallet etc. because they like the idea.  Especially if you target somewhere with an IT/technically savvy population for initial marketing.

Lastly, communicate the expected milestones in project announcement, but not the schedule (i.e. just the objectives) - that way if/when it runs late, noone starts to bitch!  So many software projects die before completion because deadlines are missed and the users get agro about it and move on!

Conclusion

Ok, so based on the rough analysis outlined in the above mess/points, it sounds to me like id10tothe9's idea has merit.

By which I mean that id10tothe9's initial proposal is solid as its written.  My running with it could be seen as a "future evolution of the concept" and was an exercise in me reasoning out whether the initial proposal was worth investment, or would be a dead end.

The deeper questions are:

• What does everyone else think?
• Does it match the long-term goals of Fedoracoin?
• Does the community want it?
• Can the community find/interest developer(s) is building it?
• How much will development cost?  Can the community afford it?
• Is someone willing to project-manage the thing?  (I mean someone with real project-management experience/skills, as this is a reasonably complex delivery.. i.e. not just someone who sticks their hand up for everything they like the sound of )

Here's the Fedora coin mixing thread following its release.. from Feb 17th no less!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471660.0

(posting it partly so I can find it easily tomorrow, and because it should be in this thread for people to read ).

Glad to see a reply here, thanks!

I've bolded what I think is the crux of the matter, and where cryptocoins are largely failing.  Its great to see acknowledgement of that by one of the community managers for this coin!

Global b2c e-commerce (i.e. retail) is expected to hit $1.5 trillion this year (one source) , so tapping into that market in any way has to be a good thing, especially in developing economies in Asia-Pacific where the standard payments clearing/credit market is less saturated than in the European/American markets.

Providing the tools to help merchants integrate TiPS with their e-commerce sites would be a huge step, and something which,coupled with appropriate marketing, could see actual adoption of TiPS as a currency.  Even a couple of merchants with tiny turnover could make a real difference.. a single $100 purchase of fedora tips to pay for goods would be noticeable on cryptsy.  Finding out which e-commerce platforms are cheapest/easiest to target for extensions would be a good first step - I listed three good ones in my above post.

The concern I have about marketing is that general awareness in itself is not necessarily a positive thing.  One of the projects listed on myfedora.tips is "Advertise on Reddit", and the questions I find myself asking is "advertise what features? to which target customer segment?".  The content on the fedoraco.in is similarly lacking in positioning.

My impression is Fedora TiPS is being positioned not as a currency, but as a goodwill tipping tool used for forums/fun, which undermines any message of being taken seriously as a currency.  If Fedora TiPS gets a reputation as "funny forum tipping currency" it will be harder to convince that same audience to take it seriously and buy actual goods/services with it.

There is a nod to "mining" and "trading" as activities, but those don't create value or interest.. plenty of other coins are dying with those abilities.  The ones which are succeeding are the ones which have found a niche customer segment and are positioning themselves at it.. the current fashionable ones being "anonymous payments", "decentralised marketplace", and "secure contracts".  Pretty much every other coin is riding a wave of investors who don't know what they're looking for, and traders who're fleecing those investors for as much money as they can, i.e. an unsustainable market.

As an aside - you guys should be shouting from every available platform that coinjoin is already live with Fedoracoin - the latest news of delays from Darkcoin is an opportunity to gain mindshare in the anonymous space, which is a subset of the potential "serious commerce" userbase.

Anyway, enough about my thoughts, I'm just a bloke with a B Comp.Sci and an MBA who has opinions on stuff I read and think about in my spare time.  I tip my hat [sic] to those of you who're actually spending time building community and managing projects, and I've been willing to make a small acquisition (20m) of TiPS as a long-term bet.  I think this coin has a reasonable feature-set to meet the needs of actual global general commerce, more than any other large-numbered coin I've seen.

If I see more concrete positioning statements and plans, I'll buy a lot more, lock it up, and shout about the coin and its future!

And now I need to go investigate the old Fedora threads about coinjoin and figure out what's required to test it, whether there are any active nodes, and what it takes to set up a node.  From reading between the lines, the source code isn't available?

Thanks for your attention and time!

Orinoco Womble.

I posted this on another coin I follow, but I think it also applies here, possibly more-so given we have the coin-mixing already implemented.

First.. a question

What are the long-term strategic plans to increase adoption of TiPS and its use as a currency?

I had a look at the first post in this thread, and a quick scan of the reddit and FB pages, and am none the wiser.

Ok, so that was a loaded question.  I like TiPS - for a few reasons.

1.  Lots of coins = enough for actual use as public adoption of cryptocoins grows
2.  Age of the coin - time and declining value is a really good fix for distribution, and more holders means less chance of a HUGE dump killing the value for users (spenders/merchants)
3.  POW-based  (POS has some inherent long-term issues)
4.  Active community
5.  Coin mixing (if its still working?  I should investigate this more - might be willing to be a node too)

So this next bit I posted for another coin I follow, but after thinking about it this morning, I decided that it applies equally well, if not better, to Fedora TiPS.

IMO what we need for TiPS to succeed as a currency is:

1.  Commercial purpose (utility = value)
2.  Marketing

Marketing is the easy part.  The tricky part is commercial purpose and making a currency which works i.e. which can be used to obtain goods/services or as an exchange of value.  We need things like:

commerce tools for merchants

• Plugins for supporting ECC on various ecommerce carts (Woo-commerce, Magento and Opencart)
  
  • Check-out payment with ECC
  • Pricing in ECC (i.e. treat similar to Forex - price based on exchange rate)
• Merchant wallet integration for said carts (transaction lists, balances, outstanding invoices etc.)
  
  • 3rd party hosted wallet service integration (so merchants don't need to run their own wallet server/dameon/blockchain host)
  • Direct wallet/daemon wallet (for merchants who want control, have the space, and can set it up and run it themselves, and be a node)

Improved tools for users

• mobile wallets for android, iphone
• merchant directory of supporting vendors (geolocation, search, etc.)
• crypto-ATM support
• p2p marketplace

Sure, all the things like decentralised marketplaces, online contracts and asset-exchanges are sexy, but this is an emerging market, and the fact is 99.9999% of online and physical commerce happens via existing retail channels, and its a market which is being largely ignored by the crypto market in the face of fads and fashion, and ideology.

It seems that cryptocoins as a segment are currently failing at being actual currencies.  Everyone's trying to think 10 steps down the line to replacing fiat currencies and exchange mechanisms, and ignoring the obvious step of working alongside them using existing infrastructure.

I think a strong focus on leveraging those existing channels, even if we only achieve a tiny percentage of merchants, will show vastly more growth and increased awareness among the general public than any decentralised asset exchange.  

The crypto community is small, really small.

The whole market cap of Bitcoin is less than the value of some app-store apps.  What we should be trying to do is increase the size/appeal of the crypto market, not fight for a share of it.  The old venture-capitalist adage about a smaller piece of a bigger pie applies here.  It doesn't take many merchants selling $5 items to create significant buying power.  $5 is around 7m TiPS.

Is Hashco.ws still online for ECC?  Are they aware that ECC is an LTC market now on mintpal?  I've been mining ECC on hashco.ws for a while, and since the LTC change, haven't had any balance show up as ECC (single GPU - so not much).

As the coin community leader, it might be worth you talking to them and seeing if they can still payout in ECC now that its not a BTC-based market?

I'm surprised how few of the 1.0 coins are targetting commercial transactions.  I spent a short time earlier looking into extensions for online shopping cart software which enable pricing/sales/clearing using cryptocoins on standard shopping carts.  Even a search for Bitcoin-related extensions brings up an amazingly small number of entrants, and only recently.

It seems that the ideology of crypto-currency is focussing on supplanting fiat, without looking for ways to work alongside it in the interim leveraging the massive infrastructure created to facilitate trade (retail, b2b, etc.).  Granted blockchain sizes and transaction sizes/throughput are issues which affect ultimate scalability and TPS, but until there's a need to solve those issues, there doesn't appear to be much happening on that front.

I get the feeling the cryptocoin community wants a perfect end-to-end solution before taking anything to market?

In the meantime, ebay/amazon/google/facebook/apple will take the bones of cryptocurrency code/theory and use it to generate their own currency which will be an alternative to fiat initially through their stores.  You can bet they're all watching this space with interest, and one of them will try to be first-mover to really take crypto-currency to the masses.

Maybe I've missed it.. but I have a question about the multipool.

Why would anyone mine on a multipool which pays out in ECC?  

Sure, mining will raise the price of ECC by purchasing it on the market, but that rise will immediately be pushed down by the supply from the miner(s), and there will be an arms race to sell first after each rise, not just from miners, but from existing holders looking to get out (or trade) on the position.  Its a zero-sum game.

I can see a multipool adding value with a higher ECC price in terms of adding liquidity/availability and stability to the price, but right now what we need more is a reason for people to buy and hold, with a reasonable expectation of value increase in the future.  Professional miners are not, by their nature, currency holders.

IMO what we need for ECC to succeed as a currency is:

1.  Commercial purpose (utility = value)
2.  Marketing

Marketing is the easy part.  The tricky part is commercial purpose and making a currency which works i.e. which can be used to obtain goods/services or as an exchange of value.  We need things like:

commerce tools for merchants

• Plugins for supporting ECC on various ecommerce carts (Woo-commerce, Magento and Opencart)
  
  • Check-out payment with ECC
  • Pricing in ECC (i.e. treat similar to Forex - price based on exchange rate)
• Merchant wallet integration for said carts (transaction lists, balances, outstanding invoices etc.)
  

Improved tools for users

• mobile wallets for android, iphone
• merchant directory of supporting vendors (geolocation, search, etc.)
• crypto-ATM support
• p2p marketplace

Sure, all the things like decentralised marketplaces, online contracts and asset-exchanges are sexy, but this is an emerging market, and the fact is 99.9999% of online and physical commerce happens via existing retail channels, and its a market which is being largely ignored by the crypto market in the face of fads and fashion, and ideology.

It seems that cryptocoins as a segment are currently failing at being actual currencies.  Everyone's trying to think 10 steps down the line to replacing fiat currencies and exchange mechanisms, and ignoring the obvious step of working alongside them using existing infrastructure.

I think a strong focus on leveraging those existing channels, even if we only achieve a tiny percentage of merchants, will show vastly more growth and increased awareness among the general public than any decentralised asset exchange.  

The crypto community is small, really small.

The whole market cap of Bitcoin is less than the value of some app-store apps.  What we should be trying to do is increase the size/appeal of the crypto market, not fight for a share of it.

No offense to hostmaster, but the most exciting thing I've seen for ECC since I started reading about cryptocoins (less than 2 months ago) is Goldmaxx talking about moving the coin forwards.  It seems that things have kind of stagnated or been lacking direction, and having someone new with determination and an ability to organise is a good step forwards.  At this stage I'm hoping that between hostmaster and goldmaxx, they can build a team who can work to put ECC on the broader commerce map.

Orinoco (BCompSci, MBA)

Trying to mine to donate hash to get a block and prove the pool works.. but getting failed to connect?

stratum+tcp://mropool.com:7706

I'm suddenly wondering whether Monero's change in ticker to "XMR" is a preemptive move to fend off future allegations from the SEC?  Having a currency ticker which confirms to ISO 4217 for Currency Code is a pretty clear argument against it being shares.  We might be about to see a whole raft of coins change tickers?

Personally I'd prefer something a little less cutesy and which plays up the "bool" part of it (i.e. on/off or true/false symbolism).

(just bought my first BBR.. I hold XMR and BBR now, as they're the only interesting cryptonote coins.)