Hi Dooglus

Is there an update? 1 June is nearly here.

Just curious.

Yes I got aught in the blockchain fork, but all good now. Of course MtGox has come off $6 in that time :}

Thanks Dooglus

What time PDT did the payouts begin?

Thanks Dooglas, got the PM advice.

Now I need to work out what I'm owed, as I'm now on a new computer.

I'm one of the buyers on #bitcoin-otc who has a good Web-of-Trust rating and pays Mt.Gox USD rates.

 - http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#bitcoin-otc
 - http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paulzag

We don't bite (well not much anyway).

let's discuss it in #bitcoin-otc

You got pissed off? Imagine how I feel and the rest of your clients.

You accuse me of defaming you. Please specify where I have done so in any of my postings. I will readily post a retraction, clarification or apology.

The last conversation I had with you was (I think) Thursday 16 February when you said my transfer had gone through (I can check and confirm the actual date but it was before 24 Feb). Since then it is impossible to talk to you via phone or email.

The only response from you has been identical cut and paste nonsense to (what seems like) every email in your inbox dated 12 March 2012.

What crap am I digging up? 1) Chris denied being your Technical Lead; 2)there is not WBX team; 3)you told me on the phone, you'd transferred my other withdrawal requests to my Westpac account when you had not.

If you are talking about a fraud investigation or small claims. I'm not digging those up. They are actively being considered.

What I'm trying to do is work out how to get some advocacy and communication going. We aren't talking sheep stations here*. But there are enough people saying you have their money and you are not giving it back to them. Worse you are not telling me enough information to encourage me to wait quietly (or come to your defense).

Andre as you know I am in Australia. I can coordinate the "disgruntled clients of Andre Jensen". I thought you would want to avoid creating an angry group of clients, and instead pursue an orderly resolution of affairs.

I don't think you are a crook or a scammer. I think you ended up in a bad place as the meat in the sandwich. Personally I suspect criminals used EFT to transfer more AUD into the exchange than you have admitted to me. But nothing you have said or done encourages me to hope for an orderly resolution.

*for non-Aussies "sheep stations" are huge land-holdings in the Australian outback - some are bigger than small counties. "Playing for sheep-stations" means playing for big stakes.

Okay - look forward to hearing from you.

"tomorrow" is a strange concept on forums. It's 9:31pm on Friday night as I write this in Sydney Australia.

 

PM answered

I'm still selling BTC for LRUSD

I think you're being imprecise with your word choices "favor sellers". It actually favors liquidity makers. They can be buyers or sellers, so long as they do not accept the bid/ask on the other side of the transaction.

The new system actually discourages participants from accepting a highest bid/lowest ask. Instead it encourages the order to be off that by 0.00000001 BTC (or whatever the lowest increment the market supports).

Hopefully the market throws a warning like "your commission if you click okay will be 0.095% which is equal to $x.yy . So the newbies don't get surprised.

Why would the primary issuer get a cut of the secondary market?

The issuer get the advantage that a secondary market gives them liquidity. If the issuer gets a cut, then the transaction fees must go up.

If the issuer wants to make a margin they can set up their own secondary market, but I'd never invest in them. I want them to stick to the knitting.

Everybody has explained it already, but basically buyers AND sellers pay fees, you can rebate fees for liquidity makers in v2. v3 may even pay Market Makers more in rebates than they'd pay in fees effectively giving them a revenue stream.

The fees are set in the base currency, in this case BTC as others have said. Stock buyers pay the stock price plus fee. Stock sellers receive BTC less the fee. Stock exchanges work like that. You buy shares you spend $x00 per share plus $y commission. you sell shares you receive $x00 per share less the $y commission.

Andre I'm glad you resurfaced and answered some questions.

At this point in time I hold you personally responsible and liable for all client funds in the exchange. You no doubt have your own advice on that, however I point out that you accepted deposits and made withdrawals in your own name and from your personal bank accounts. Furthermore you knowingly traded while the company was deregistered.

You have exaggerated or been untruthful on the phone and on the site. One example is Chris is not your "Technical Lead", another is there is not a "WBX Team" behind WBX news - it's just you. Lastly you told me on at least two occasions that my AUD withdrawal had gone through. I am not the only person you said that to.

Your selective response to questions, your extended periods of silence on email and forums, and your refusal to answer phone calls further exacerbate your personal liability in this matter.

I offered you a recapitalization option which you ignored.

Yes you haven't done a runner with the remaining BTC, but you have not been open and honest with your customers and clients. Especially as many of us have a vested interest in helping you sort out the mess with your bankers. Many people can research and pressure the banks to release some of the funds. Unless that too is an exaggeration or untruth.

Even if the worst case is that you've been scammed and intend to earn the money to pay everyone back, the only way to do that is to be honest about the situation.

Do you really want the pain of a fraud investigation or a series of small claims court claims?

Hi everyone,

I'd like LRUSD and can exchange bitcoin for it.

The rate I'm offering is MtGox Ask or some other rate you'd like to offer.

PM or reply or hit me up in #bitcoin-otc

My #bitcoin-otc web-of-trust is http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paulzag

If you want USD quick I can also pay by Paypal (eeek) or USA ACH (subject to funds availability).

Regards

Paul

Sorry for the cheap shot at my kiwi cousins... I went to primary school in Christchurch one autumn/winter. I held a financial services authority once too - for raising film funds.

Yes the legal framework in Oz is quite good. So you'd think Andre would man up and start talking rather than risk the legal ramifications of anybody calling the authorities.

Sadly I suspect it will come to criminal and civil proceedings as Andre is burying his head in the sand and ducking everyone.

I think the Orange NSW address you are thinking of is for CryptoXChange's legal registered office address.

The ABN looks like it predates the move to Qld.

The absence of Annual Return filings reinforces a view that the company was deregistered automatically for not lodging annual returns.

However the company was not up-to-date with ASIC paperwork before it started the exchange. Strike 1 to piercing the corporate veil (and thus making Andre personally liable).

ASIC also regulates the provision of financial services in Australia. They love to go after shonky Queensland-based Kiwi get-rich-quick peddlers. And a company called "High Net Worth Property Pty Ltd" sounds like the perfect target. ASIC has powers to ban a director from working in the financial services industry, ban the holding of more directorships, or just ruin a director's reputation.

ASIC can also pierce the corporate veil and go after the director personally.

He probably didn't de-register the company, ASIC probably deregistered it for not filling annual returns.

Furthermore, bank account payments to and from WBX are in Andre's name not the company. So again he's personally liable.

I also notice there is not announcement here or on the site's News page to match Andre's numerous copy & paste emails of today.

It seems like he sent the same reply to every email in the support queue.

The problem is that Andre stayed silent most days since before 14 February.

There should have been a daily "nothing new to report" or "I can't say anything more while the lawyers are looking it over".

In today's announcement there is no timeline for the return of clients' funds.

If you think <$5 is too cheap, then there is a really easy fix, buy them yourself.

At current returns on mining, you can work in fast food and buy BTC quicker than mining them. Temporary aberration in the market?

It's not like the BTC are being destroyed by trading them.

supply and demand means that BTC are worth more than the equivalent fiat for the buyer, and sellers would marginally prefer the cash.