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I would like to point out that within the last 10 years or so Sprint PCS, some other mobile companies, and Google lost class action law suits. I got five dollars back form Google. My point is to put into perspective what actually happens when a company loses class action lawsuits. You don't get rich. They don't go away. They are not labeled as criminals (scams, frauds, or anything), and in many cases those companies are still popular and thriving. Don't be so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Think about your options and decide what is necessary without anger or fear.
Re: GAW Zen Hashlet PayCoin unofficial uncensored discussion. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)
http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/53209c9169bedd5b607bc861-574-468/welcome-step-3.png
https://paybase.com/img/angela/screenshot-1.png
This actually isn't that great. The original looks more shopped than the GAW one. Not saying that proves anything -- could just be a resolution difference, and anyway the time stamp on the Zinc post is the most damning bit of evidence for GAW -- but there are more artefacts around the Zinc fonts.
Wait let me put my glasses on for a closer look.. 
https://paybase.com/img/angela/screenshot-1.png
This actually isn't that great. The original looks more shopped than the GAW one. Not saying that proves anything -- could just be a resolution difference, and anyway the time stamp on the Zinc post is the most damning bit of evidence for GAW -- but there are more artefacts around the Zinc fonts.
welcome to the thread
Where is an emoticon smacking self in Face?
The Zinc Save is the original? Yo WTF; that wasn't even photo shopped. It was MS paint brushed. That's why it has so many artifacts showing around "zinc save"and "order with zinc for" areas. The dates where just simply added.
Guys, when will bitcoin reach $1000 again ?
A lot people said it will happen end of this year, but the reality bitcoin still stand at $380
And i think, when will it happen ?
Personally, i think that's going to happen at mid end of june 2015
What do you think ?
A lot people said it will happen end of this year, but the reality bitcoin still stand at $380
And i think, when will it happen ?
Personally, i think that's going to happen at mid end of june 2015
What do you think ?
Um how about never. Its more likely that the bitcoin will be worth even less by this time next year. The bitcoin dropped in value due to several reasons; Banks wont support anybody using their account for transactions, the lose of the original silk road, the lose of very popular exchanges, and finally the significant increase of scams when the value was high. The bitcoin got beat-up in 2014 and at the same time the mining difficulty kept climbing at an exponential rate. Now we are looking at the fact that mining bitcoins is just simply unsustainable. Home mining is unprofitable and cloud mining the new hope. Cloud mining is a huge rip off. Its only a matter of time before mining bitcoins is just unprofitable for any body. I think in the future electric companies wont support mining bitcoins. If they see electric usage skyrockets they may cut you off.
Electric companies only want profit and will sell to anyone who wants to buy. Why should they cut off bitcoin miners when there is profit to be made from them?
You need to think about it. Its not just about profit. The electricity doesn't just come from no ware and its not without its cost and maintenance. We don't have unlimited electricity so the companies don't just simply think about profit. I'm not saying for sure that electric companies will cut people off but they will have a problem in the future if the number and size of mining farms keep growing. It will take its tole on the infrastructure. It can cause an energy crises. I do believe that electric companies will refuse to support the bitcoin or any-crypto currency mining because the amount of power consumption will become unsustainable to the infrastructure.
Can we build mining rigs with two or more processors of CPUs ? Any idea? 
BTC
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You would think a CPU would be so awesome because they are fast but ASIC are chips specifically designed for a single task in this case bitcoin mining. A CPU is designed process many different types of task handed to it through a bloated OS.
How much money does it cost to solve a block of Bitcoin?
If someone were to spend a certain amount of money to rent or purchase hashing power to solve a block of bitcoin, how much would that person have to spend? Any thoughts?
If someone were to spend a certain amount of money to rent or purchase hashing power to solve a block of bitcoin, how much would that person have to spend? Any thoughts?
If your talking cloud mining the cost is the price of the hash power plus purchase fees plus maintenance fees. at home the cost is the price of the miner, shipping, supplies (a shelf, psu, network switch, network cables, fans, and surge protectors), and finally electricity. You may also have to use your ac in the summer; driving up the electric cost. surge protectors can plow out form the excessive; adding additional cost to mining.
So the power company upgraded me to a 50 KVA transformer after the 25 KVA exploded. I am running 200 amps at 120v constant. Anyone know if this is safe on that size transformer? I don't want to blow another one, they will charge me a ton of money.
are you mining at home because all you get is 200 amps at 120v. that's the max unless your in a facility.
Guys, when will bitcoin reach $1000 again ?
A lot people said it will happen end of this year, but the reality bitcoin still stand at $380
And i think, when will it happen ?
Personally, i think that's going to happen at mid end of june 2015
What do you think ?
A lot people said it will happen end of this year, but the reality bitcoin still stand at $380
And i think, when will it happen ?
Personally, i think that's going to happen at mid end of june 2015
What do you think ?
Um how about never. Its more likely that the bitcoin will be worth even less by this time next year. The bitcoin dropped in value due to several reasons; Banks wont support anybody using their account for transactions, the lose of the original silk road, the lose of very popular exchanges, and finally the significant increase of scams when the value was high. The bitcoin got beat-up in 2014 and at the same time the mining difficulty kept climbing at an exponential rate. Now we are looking at the fact that mining bitcoins is just simply unsustainable. Home mining is unprofitable and cloud mining the new hope. Cloud mining is a huge rip off. Its only a matter of time before mining bitcoins is just unprofitable for any body. I think in the future electric companies wont support mining bitcoins. If they see electric usage skyrockets they may cut you off.
I will just buy a load of USD with my EUR.
You would buy USD after a crash ? I read some articles online that the US Government would switch to a new, gold backed currency. Sounded like a crackpot conspiracy though.
I don't listen to news sites and people who are hoping that the USD will fail. It just won't happen.
If there is a significant price drop I will definitely buy up USD. Great investment opportunity.
You are so sure it wont happen. That's exactly when bad things happen; when people thing it wont. Our money can easily become worthless and it can happen in a matter of month. Not because of complex economic systems but because value is merely just an opinion. Opinions can change.
Ok so finding blocks is the problem, not solving them.
All the info on Internet like Coinwarz show profit if you find blocks immediately and doesn't allow for looking hours for blocks.
So 1 big pool please, the more pools we get the longer we search for blocks, the less we earn.
All the info on Internet like Coinwarz show profit if you find blocks immediately and doesn't allow for looking hours for blocks.
So 1 big pool please, the more pools we get the longer we search for blocks, the less we earn.
1. Finding blocks is salving blocks.
2. The faster blocks are solved the more money you will make; this is true.
3. Its true that the more pools there are the longer it will take each pool to salve a block. This is because while a block will be solved ever 10 minutes (average), only one pool (one miner) can salve a block at a time. Therefor the more pools there are the longer it will take for your pool to salve a block. On the other-hand a single pool for everyone can bring in many more problems. What if the pool goes down? then many people will be pissed off.
I am new to mining. I have several S3's and an S4 and have started mining today.
What I have noticed as a relative outsider is the following:
Whatever your hashrate, you will only earn money when your pool finds a block. So when all the pools that you are not with are finding blocks, your own pool is eating up electricity for nothing. I noticed in some pools that it took a massive 6 hours to find a block.
Have I got this wildly wrong or should all pools integrate into one big one?
What I have noticed as a relative outsider is the following:
Whatever your hashrate, you will only earn money when your pool finds a block. So when all the pools that you are not with are finding blocks, your own pool is eating up electricity for nothing. I noticed in some pools that it took a massive 6 hours to find a block.
Have I got this wildly wrong or should all pools integrate into one big one?
I think the same as you do. Pools have done some damage to the bitcoin system because they came in too early and there where too many different payout systems. but because mining bitcoins is like a lottery solo mining at this point would be devastating to most people even if there where no pools. What would happen is that at current hashing power for home miners and current difficulty you would be waiting five to 10 years to win a block or just as easily, never. Having an official pool could salve the problem but a single pool can bring in other issues such as vulnerability to attacks and bandwidth issues. To mitigate network problems there should be 3 to 5 official pools to chose from.
I define an official pool as pools that are mandatory for mining coins. this means that an agency needs to be set up to govern the rules and license to these pools and any one who wants to mine coins are required to chose between one of those pools. any pool not officially licence to mine coins should be rejected (Known and private pools). to prevent the 51% issue each pool must be required to close new account signups or the addition of miners when approaching a high percentage of hashing power until other pools can catch up. Cloud mining sites could just simply link to official pools.
So basically if I ignore everything said and just focus on one point i can amuse by this time next year the bitcoin price will be between $86 and $260. Those prices would still make many people wealth if the damn difficulty didn't rise so high so fast this year. I would have been wealthy if my home miners didn't become obsolete so fast.
The dollar isn't going away any time soon. The problem is that the world (especially Americans ) are addicted to the dollar. Russia and China just simply insist on being America's antagonist no-matter what. They don't have allot of pull in the world and nobody wants them to. I wouldn't put too much weight on anything Russia is doing because they don't seem to be able to get it together. China is different. China has a massive recourse called one billion population but they see it as a hindrance rather than a recourse. The true hindrance in china is the government's strong desire to micromanage everything. Simply put; these guys combined efforts inst enough to compete with the dollar at great extent.
Water water water water water water beer beer beer beer water water sleep
Sounds like a schedule to me!
From what I've read, this is really risky for you. Paypal can be charged back for like 180 days.
The longest time anybody can charge-back anything any ware is 60 days. Show me any ware in PayPal policy that they accept charge back within half a year.
Re: Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services
Good advice. I would like to point out that when selling bitcoins for money with PayPal one person did try to reverse the transaction. I got an email from Paypal stating that the funds where on hold because the sender reported me as a scammer. Four ours later PayPal sent me another email stating that they ruled in my favor. This happened before i had noticed anything was wrong so I did nothing at all. I never had another incident sense. Basically, don't trust anybody offering a higher dollar price than normal.
I see many loan requests on the various P2P lending sites for upgrades to cloud mining contracts. Some of them quite large and many of them getting funded. In the short term these look like good opportunities for both parties but a look at the fundamentals of this strategy show how it falls apart relatively quickly.
1. It costs about 3 times as much per GH/s for sha 256 or MH/s for scrypt as it does to buy a physical machine to do the work. This effectively puts your break even (NOT RETURN ON INVESTMENT!) around 200 days or more for these cloud contracts.
2. Your breakeven point is around 200 days and not return on investment because you do not have any underlying value with the contract (unless it is a gawmining hashlet that you can resell). With a machine your return on investment is helped somewhat by owning the machine at the end of the mining period.
3. With every increase in difficulty your investment pays less and less. Sometimes as much as 20% less as is the case with bitcoin. This difficulty is reset often and at the present time only goes up. Altcoin is a little better with the difficulty moving sideways for awhile until the next wave of machines hits the market.
4. Price volatility also diminishes the value of what you are mining. Especially with the recent fall of bitcoin.
5. At first the cloud contracts pay enough to enable you to keep up with your loans and make you think you are doing well but inevitably as the days wear on your return will be less and
less, eventually going to near 0. Those new lifetime hashlets will not produce anything within a year and their value will be 0 as the hashrate they represent becomes more and more obsolete.
6. This scenario leads a borrower to always posting new loan requests and upgrading their cloud capacity to try to keep up with the diminishing returns but they will really never make any money. Only the cloud companies will.
7. Once they get to the point of not being able to get enough loans or provide their own capital, the whole house of cards will crumble.
8. This is why it is very important to lenders and borrowers to be sure of their strategy and hopefully move more to having physical miners that can pay for themselves before they are totally obsolete.
1. It costs about 3 times as much per GH/s for sha 256 or MH/s for scrypt as it does to buy a physical machine to do the work. This effectively puts your break even (NOT RETURN ON INVESTMENT!) around 200 days or more for these cloud contracts.
2. Your breakeven point is around 200 days and not return on investment because you do not have any underlying value with the contract (unless it is a gawmining hashlet that you can resell). With a machine your return on investment is helped somewhat by owning the machine at the end of the mining period.
3. With every increase in difficulty your investment pays less and less. Sometimes as much as 20% less as is the case with bitcoin. This difficulty is reset often and at the present time only goes up. Altcoin is a little better with the difficulty moving sideways for awhile until the next wave of machines hits the market.
4. Price volatility also diminishes the value of what you are mining. Especially with the recent fall of bitcoin.
5. At first the cloud contracts pay enough to enable you to keep up with your loans and make you think you are doing well but inevitably as the days wear on your return will be less and
less, eventually going to near 0. Those new lifetime hashlets will not produce anything within a year and their value will be 0 as the hashrate they represent becomes more and more obsolete.
6. This scenario leads a borrower to always posting new loan requests and upgrading their cloud capacity to try to keep up with the diminishing returns but they will really never make any money. Only the cloud companies will.
7. Once they get to the point of not being able to get enough loans or provide their own capital, the whole house of cards will crumble.
8. This is why it is very important to lenders and borrowers to be sure of their strategy and hopefully move more to having physical miners that can pay for themselves before they are totally obsolete.
I think your right about everything but the biggest issue is the fees. Cloud mining has become the Ponzi scheme that bitcoin naysayers have dreamed of. This because virtual miners cost more/Gigahash than a physical miner plus service providers are taking between 50 and 90% of your earnings. Leaving you with noting at all. They are getting away with this because there is no regulation in the system.
Nobody has to invest with them. There is heavy regulation in the banking sector but they still rip everyone off.
If you do your own calculations and think you can profit you made your own choice, didn't you?
That's kind of a snappy comment for agreeing with you.
Now you should know that maintenance fees where pretty low when I got started in cloud mining. I didn't mind the high cost/GHS because I had to consider not just how much energy home miners where using but the energy used to keep them cool. The heat was filling my entire house. So the cost was still worth it. It didn't become a ponzi scheme until the maintenance fee went so high that people wasn't making any money.
You seem to be implying that because I had a choice that its my fault if I get scammed. That's not exactly true. Did everybody make a bad choice when bitcoin exchange sites claimed they lost millions in bitcoins due to a transaction bug But later we found out that the bug didn't cause that kind of problem? The exchanges just tried to take peoples money. Is it investors fault when Mt Gox tried to take millions of dollars worth of bitcoins when they went down? No. You simply just can say I had a choice like that means something. We all had a choice. I did the math. Many of us did the math. Still things don't go as planed.
Yes you can get ripped off anywhere but not by a ponzi scheme which is a specific type of scam and very illegal in the US. I'm not sure about anywhere else and I believe that CEX.io is either British or Canadian. Is it a persons fault for wanting to make a buck? No. advised or ill-advised, research or no research, its not an investors fault for getting scammed because the scammer is breaking laws. When a ponzi scheme arises we do need regulations to crack down. Nothing can stay unregulated forever.
A ponzi scheme is one which when you make an investment the returns form that investment doesn't really exist. The bitcoin isnt an ponzi scheme because it really exist. the argument is over weather or it its actually money. Cloud mining in it self isn't a ponzi scheme but when the purchased mining power produces bitcoins but it evaporates due to fees then it becomes a ponzi scheme. So the fault doesn't lye with an investor making the choice to invest. You don't see a ponzi scheme coming until its here.
Glad to hear you got your money back because thy did rob you. You have every right to broadcast what happen between you and that bank because they probably robbed many people. As for banks in general they pretty much hate the bitcoin. Not because they think its a scheme or too volatile but because they don't think there is a future in it. Banks are all about fiat money and the bitcoin is a direct opponent to that. However; the day that banks figure out how to get rich on bitcoins is the day they will be all over it.
@e-coinomist:
Couldn't they just sell them at the exchanges like everybody else? They could sell a little at a time at multiple exchanges over a long period of time and they will still make money.
The gov is messing up the coins value on purpose to make a quick buck. They are not shutting down these sites for justice or to protect anybody. I believe they are just simply trying to cash in on bitcoins while its still valuable. If bitcoin crashes in the process they wouldn't give a damn. That's just how I feel I don't really have proof.
Couldn't they just sell them at the exchanges like everybody else? They could sell a little at a time at multiple exchanges over a long period of time and they will still make money.
The gov is messing up the coins value on purpose to make a quick buck. They are not shutting down these sites for justice or to protect anybody. I believe they are just simply trying to cash in on bitcoins while its still valuable. If bitcoin crashes in the process they wouldn't give a damn. That's just how I feel I don't really have proof.