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Summary - we should tax, and then re-invest into public health. Benefits health, the economy, and other aspects of living in shared world.

Investing in public health leads to sustainable growth

"The case for investing in public health includes the significant current costs of ill health for governments in Europe and the investments that can result in sustainable, sometimes nearly immediate, positive growth in a country. Cost-effective interventions include preventive approaches to the environmental and social determinants of health; such approaches build resilience in communities and promote healthy behaviour in the population, including attendance at screening and vaccination.

...

The report also outlines the cost of health inequalities and the financial loss that can occur if health threats are not addressed proactively. For example, cancer costs governments and society in the European Union €117 billion per year."

http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/social-determinants/news/news/2015/07/new-report-investing-in-public-health-offers-large-gains-in-health,-the-economy-and-other-sectors

pdf here
http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/278073/Case-Investing-Public-Health.pdf?ua=1

**I'm interested to know opinions to this from others here. Evidence-based libertarians care to comment/disagree with need for taxation, and then re-investment in public health?

That is extremely cynical.

1)Do you have any experience of working in science / with scientists? 

2)How do you propose science is funded

3) When scientists were providing evidence of harmful effects of tobacco on health while politicians were on the boards of big tobacco, were they doing what they were told?!   They eventually - over decades - changed policy which cost big tobacco.
http://www.tobaccotactics.org/index.php/Kenneth_Clarke#Tobacco_Links)

Healthcare professionals and scientists are interested in improving health, not being biased towards government. See BMA and other groups output, usually in response to government imposed changes. Compare and contrast the UK's expensive and price discriminatory private train lines with other more efficient publicly run ones (eg France). Majority of the UK population support rail re nationalisation  
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/05/11/why-do-people-support-rail-nationalisation/

Nothing wrong with seeking re assurance. Asking probing questions will ultimately help if they are properly answered. This is how science progresses. Some of the pro Bitcoiners borderline on religious fanaticism, which isn't particularly convincing.

Doesn't seem like a great paper, analyses Google search terms.

Does mention other papers though
"In order to understand the underlying rationale for Bitcoin use, Lui (2013) surveyed 1133 members of the Bitcoin community (by posting links on Bitcoin websites).6 The survey identified three key motives: curiosity, profit and political...."

Yes UK banks have some good properties. Shame (and I don't know why) the exchange market is limited. Most other developed nations it's easier.

Seems like a bit of a paradox - the more advanced the countries' infrastructure, the less need for Bitcoin. Yet countries with greatest need are less able to access/use Bitcoin. Hard to know how much investment is going in to change this - and coindesk charge for their reports on Bitcoin use etc.


And add on here that no address needed for Bitcoin, whereas most banks addresses needed. This had been very problematic. But some of the purported positives are actually negatives for many and moot points for most normal consumers imo in the developed world.

-£250 daily limit - only for paying people without 2FA. For 2FA contacts, I don't think there is a limit.

-yes, clearly moving money around is already business. What I mean is that currently it is not as easy as bitcoin, and arguably more expensive in some cases. However if there was larger demand for this in the UK then I'd expect the larger banks to start competing on this basis, incorportating them into the app. This has already happened with UK-UK money transfers. Paying for coffee etc by bitcoin unlikely in this context

-banks and other things been used to launder money. The arguments from people like Piketty is that these should be monitered in a transparent way. How does a semi anonymous (or fully anonymous) online currency help this?

http://personal.natwest.com/personal/ways-to-bank-with-us1/mobile-banking/mobile-payments.html

I agree with some of the stuff about problems with the banks. However I'm not a fan of the mega wealthy being able to hide their wealth away - see piketty's rationale for greater wealth transparency.

Separate to the above is the practical use cases for Bitcoin which we have to try to analyse objectively.  I doubt this internally in the UK now. Add on the ~5% fiat->BTC fees and it gets worse. Moving money abroad will become easier if there is a sufficient demand for it.

UK banks now enable, with most recent IOS apps:
- moving money from bank to bank effectively instantly (no fees).
- move money to a mobile number, using Paym, bank - > mobile number www.paym.co.uk  (I think no fees)
- enable Apple pay sync (no fees)

I find it very hard to see how bitcoin can become further adopted in the UK given these and other advances. Moloch has rumbled, Moloch has delivered. Anyone disagree?

saddampbuh - happy to debate these issues in another thread, but no more here. Also, happy to bet 1 BTC that I'd win this argument with you. Would recommend you read about the Flynn effect (counters your IQ graph)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect#Rise_in_IQ      and the literature in general about race (eg, white sometimes do worse in school than other races http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmeduc/142/14202.htm ).

Hasn't worked well for healthcare - UK consensus among healthcare experts is that there is little/no role of private companies in healthcare provision. Growing consensus also for train transport given lack of competition that can realistically occur on 1 line.



If I understand you right, I think this is about whether racist opinions should be heard and ignored or banned. Usually the former I'd say. I think the argument is that one can listen to then dismiss racism arguments as being very flawed and toxic. Agree that censoring those views perhaps not helpful, may re-inforce their paranoia.

I think this racist stuff should be removed or ignored in this thread (in fact from the civilised world in general). Why bring race into it? Black people didn't like being slaved for hundreds of years, then being born into households with little income, wealth, education, or social connections that others take for granted.

blablahblah hit a few nails on the head. Also a matter of short term thinking among libertarian idealists - instead of long-term societal investment via tax (however inefficient), they'd prefer money in the bank now and their children growing up in an apartheid. Not too far off though in the US at the moment, even amongst sunny Yale: http://www.naacpnewhaven.org/wp-content/uploads/NAACP_UrbanApartheid_print_final.pdf

"what’s called libertarian in the United States, which is a special U. S. phenomenon, it doesn’t really exist anywhere else — a little bit in England — permits a very high level of authority and domination but in the hands of private power:  so private power should be unleashed to do whatever it likes.  The assumption is that by some kind of magic, concentrated private power will lead to a more free and just society...

just a call for some of the worst kinds of tyranny, namely unaccountable private tyranny."

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/noam-chomsky-kind-anarchism-i-believe-and-whats-wrong-libertarians?sc=fb

Hard to put semantics to one side in terms of correct definition of libertarianism send anarchism, but above statement seems an important point. Why America's obsession with libertarianism?!

Is this topic and the replies for real?! Open a casino? How vacuous.

Surely you'd want to dedicate your life to charitable endeavours. This would ultimately make you happier too (eg, see Richard layard's books on happiness and wellbeing)

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Bitcoins can be placed here: 16J9v8FGdFRnAJzwneTcmbMs7x7ttvmn8p

I translated a source video. It's gotten into high circles in china. No mention of Dash on first listen. Just Litecoin.

(donations unlikely but welcome nevertheless in BTC at 1NBBuD3N89sRLYgG8HvURUvVPzGEgiaT8a)

vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVsWQa9qKnk


English Translation:
Hands up the first time you’ve seen me here – old friends let’s welcome the new friends. [other repetitive introductory stuff]. 4 days ago I traveling from Beijing to Dalian then I stayed for 1 day, then went to Shenyang. And then I stayed there for 2 days for 2 conferences – with 2 teams there. Then I went to Anshan. I then had a talk in Anshan then drove here [?]. This is my one week schedule. But one thing is similar is that for example in Dalian, after the conference, the market had 600 more bookings! In Beijing that team asked us to go back there for another conference. I don’t like the Beijing people – too proud of themselves, don’t like other province people. Because of that we booked a hotel which is just next to the government – only ambassadors live there. From the first meeting, they are all relatives of Xi Jinping etc [Chinese President]!!!! Some people say they are from the finance department of the main government. I think ‘I can’t do anything for this market’. The second day another good quality team came. First they only sent less important people, then they realised it’s a good opportunitiy so sent the team leaders. 5 people in a team – each one gives 60 transactions. Also they said they want to start the main marketing in July. Only these few days when in north east china, and they kept telling us ‘come back to beijing’ for more collaboration [to make the scheme bigger]. From above, you can see that Litecoin is very popular with a big market there. On 17th April when this company registered in china I was involved in planning. Some people can earn around 100 000 within 1 day, but others work 10 years and earn 100 000, depends on the speed. So I came out from home 17th April and  drove for miles, and I haven’t been back home since. The first 28 days for me [clapping]. I used around 10 days to have another round in these markets – it’s my second time to Panjin[sp?] I got 200 bookings, each is 500 litecoins. How much is that? [end]

Pretty terrible clickbait from the bbc. Question should have been 'are Greeks using Bitcoin' with some attempt at informing this