**regarding recent proposals by the Financial action task force on changing the definition of virtual asset service providers to individuals, multisig key signers, owners, and operators from "companies"  and "custodians" as was defined previously, largely ghost written by the US Justice Department**
**Existing SEC and CFTC Precedent and Laws on Sueing non US citizen for offering products to US citizen**
Some of you may have already seen my posts about what the Justice Department wants to do with KYC on DeFi. So you'll understand when I say that the normal responses to regulatory threats of "VPN/anon brah/DeFi" won't work.


1)They are creating the framework to extradite non US citizen for developing anon DeFi smart contract.
2)The US is also the only country that sues and prosecutes non US citizen for offering unlicensed Securities and Commodities to US citizen.
What seems to be a Patriot act warpath of 4rth amendment violation, surely coincidentally has the effect of making it impossible for small start ups domestically and all foreign start ups to compete with legacy american institution. Only a small handful of centralized crypto exchanges can afford this type of KYC being proposed. Mostly only legacy banks can, and it is my belief that the banks want to run and operate and control Security Token Offers, US regulated Commodities, all on *their* DeFi backdoored with *their* kyc feeding into a dragnet surveillance for the nsa/fbi,etc.


They are weaponizing The banking secrecy act, to achieve *what appears* to be an ulterior desire to weaponize Security and Commodity laws. There is no way a non US citizen developer can truly keep a US customer from accessing their DeFi app if it isn't on a proprietary chain like BSC.
a) No startup can afford Bank Grade KYC surveillance, especially a DeFi app. It's an economic death blow.
b) It's nearly impossible to get a crypto approved as a security, in fact none have been, and the approved commodities aren't real crypto on chain. The US will not create a framework, and is acting in extreme bad faith on this.
c) It creates a deliberate incentive to force people to use Centralized exchange to wrap proprietary chain tokens to gain access to gated DEFI (BSC)
d) The cost of attaining a SEC or CFTC approval is incomprehensibly expensive to the point of breaking the industry.


I personally think the EU parliament should look at this as an invasion of privacy, data, and an assault on free trade, a form of anti-trust abuses. The United States is willfully attacking foreign countries ability to compete on an open source protocol and marketplace with it's dangerous interpretation of anti-money laundering laws and unfair applications of security and commodity laws.

I have a really aggravating user interface issue on tv and I just wondered if any fellow crypto tv users would recognize the difference in the size of the indicator settings menu where you input numbers and so forth, it is normally very small text, and I have many settings on my custom indicator, but now it is stuck with this long long scrolling and large text and spacing/padding.

scrapers and scrappers probing weak microsoft firewall to read your ports, any cookies that are saved, any user agent browser fingerprint, mac address of the device, black listed low cost vpn servers that already have a history of us use and general association with ddos attacks and malware, detecting the use of a vpn at all, chain analysis of your transactions leading back to coinbase

cz said on twitter in januuary that they are using new methods besides vpn to catch people from restricted areas. many reports of peoples vpn not working.

Has anyone noticed that binance has gotten really good at catching vpn users? Have you had this happen to you? Do you know of better ways to avoid it with your browser and vpn settings? Have you been able to use FTX for that matter?

There are certain overall demographic trends in regards to crypto investing and trading. The overseas Asian and European market is extremely developed and has all the exchanges and is heavily geared towards leveraged trading. It is a more advanced accessible sophisticated market with more legal listings for a greater number of people globally.

The American laws regarding Dodd Frank act treating crypto like an unregulated non centrally cleared over the counter swap instead of a centrally cleared commodity is a risk to the overall system. The unwillingness of the SEC and CFTC to make it easy for exchanges to work in the united states and to clarify things and fast track things is a risk to the system.

Americans in general are toxic maximalist and much less sophisticated in their investing and trading of crypto than the global community. This is because traditional finance in America is very inaccessible and politically and class bifurcated with people from traditionally upper middle class northern conservative families that do not like crypto or understand crypto, where high leverage traders in america tend to be well over the age of 50 and totally uninterested in trading. Everything in America is for the old and the younger have nothing.

The problem is apparent with the Bitmex Indictment. The Department of Justice has laid out an agenda where it is going to do it's best in the coming 4 years to force American regulations on the world. They have avowed to do this, to go after all of Defi and all exchanges in the world except for Huobi, OKex, and Bitthumb which are fully regulated and mandatory KYC.

American institutions and retail have an ulterior motive of toxic maximalism and custodianship and largely introducing intermediaries and treating bitcoin as a custodian held long term investment largely held in funds and banks. What people do not understand about the people who make regulations in America for bitcoin is that they largely want to trap the supply inside banks and funds. They do not like product diversity or DeFi or accessibility. That's why they engage in such protectionism and deliberately allow the CFTC and SEC to not give clarity on other areas of crypto.

Because the US will enforce it's laws globally, the only way to fully protect the ecosystem is to put a tremendous amount of pressure on the CFTC and SEC to make fully regulated derivative exchanges that are exactly like Huobi and Okex with all the coins and all the leverage, and to put the pressure on them to get Huobi and Okex to become Us regulated Future Commission Merchants and to function as centrally clearing exchanges so that the Asian and American market isn't bifurcated.

and of course brave b rowsers inbuilt wallet couldnt connect either, said keyring controller couldn't find an account or some nonsense.

Can ledger nano s work with ledger live mobile app on a chrome book?> maybe i cna get the chromebook to work

It refuses to be found in any browser for anything like shapeshift or MEW. Or at least it does so inconsistently. I've gotten it to be recognized on kyberswap and some other random sites. But I had to manually select the ledger live ethereum hd derivatiion path in opera browser to get myetherwallet to recognize it and that's the only browser that worked, It wouldn't even recognize it in the desktop application of Guarda wallet. I don't get it. I can't get it to work on shapeshift in any browser, very frustrating. It's something to do with ledgerlive and windows 7 and these browsers. Ive updated firmware etc. What makes it seem weird is the inconsistency with it working on some sites and some browsers. Very confusing. I think it's related to the hd derivation path not being specified or something.

who uses these bots? I could always use ideas and another opinion to bounce off of to test out these tedious syntax rules. Can't figure out how to use the label function in profitview

trust me i never wanna leave deribit, but they are going to go kyc and boot my ass. even more insulting, they didn't give heads notice like CZ, just gonna pull a poloniex and randomly announce it in junuary i assume, such bullshit.

maker orders are my bread and butter and they work really well on deribit, deribit has the best chart, and i use it to model my algorithms. Bybit's chart is serioulsy fucked up. I even heard through the grapevine by some developer dudes in China that mex is probably going to go full kyc in q1 2020 too. I'm feeling pretty screwed.

But Bybit is clearly 5 times more liquid than deribit, so i can't understand why you can't get an order filled on there unless it's some shady bullshit orderbook engineering by bybit. ... which i suspect is what it is going on.

Deribit and Mex are brutal, they forbid US citizen, not just resident, majorly majorly fucking bullshit.

Bybit as an exchange is just weird. Like the order rules and options for placing orders are great on mex and deribit, but bybit just is doing very odd things. I can't even manually put stop entries above the strike on bybit, they auto cancel when they are triggered. It doesn't make any sense. And autoview doesn't have stop entries integrated properly either. Bybit's API rejects normal stop sells or anything addressed as a stop loss take profit unlike mex and deribit, and only allows you to assign those variables at the beginning order, and only if the beginning entry order is at the strike, which is stupid as hell. I have a strong incentive to use bybit, it might be the only choice soon. So I need help with this.

It's like bybit is set up to rake in market fees. You can't do a proper stop limit entry which is absolute bullshit.

I've been working on a strategy that essentially briefly spams post only orders around the spread to get more fills. Rebates can be highly lucrative in crypto compared to legacy. What I don't understand perhaps is the way they give priority to people in line in the que, as in whether I get my order filled before people who placed orders *after* me , at the same order. I've wondered if bybit or mex engage in any funny business about giving certain people priority status in line, as in they always stay at the front of the line and get the maker order filled and retail noobs get pushed to the back.

I've had some astonishingly good results on derbit testnet gettng rebate orders filled with my technique, but the liquidty in the market dried up and the testnet broke again and now im lookign at the bybit testnet and it is just terrible too, even more terrible. It will fill every order but mine and my test order of 300 contracts just sits there holding up the spread. It really doesn't make any sense.

I would love to hear from traders on how easily they get their maker orders filled on any of these exchanges. 15% round trip s far far too high a fee, and the rebates are far more lucrative than i ever believed theeyd be, often doubling my profits.which should give you an idea as to how devestating even casino like these fees are. Fees in all of crypto, coinbase and cashapp included are absolutely criminal.

man kucoin woudl be great for futures if they werent so damn illiquid, their open interest is just far too low for a serious trader.
I'm afraid to get my hopes up about john and marius leaving the netherlands. But I'm not happy that they haven't stated months ahead of the kyc. CZ angered me but not nearly as much since he gave me four months head advance. Deribit is essentially implying that they are going to unceremoniously throw my ass off come january 1st or the 10th...day s effectively. I'm enraged over it, I prefer deribit to ALL the other exchanges.

kraken is normally probably twice what it was, this is a low liquidity period in the market. But if we get an extended bear market in the 2000s in 2020, than you can kiss the liquidity goodbye. The fees on coinbase are so astronomical and im not sure the volume tier matters. Whearas on kraken it is achievable for  a normal profesional trader, it only takes a week maybe to get the fees down to .05 instead of .26 x2 or god forbid the full 1% on coinbae. I mean coinbase is 1% roundtrip, that is not a exchange for traders period, by definition. Regulators stranded americans on low liquidity exchanges. We need asian exchange that is where all the volume is at, Asia.

There's good reason to believe anon derivative exchange are coming to an end. Rumors about bitmex enforcing kyc. im sure bybit will follow, pretty sure deribit will force it in january, here now.

I'm beginning to notice that usa citizen don't have options as a trader. Kraken is deeply illiquid from what I saw on the charts today, and coinbase has insurmountable fees. We've been banned from everything and kicked off everything. Krakens fees are too high also unless you are churning a several thousand dollar position a dozen times a day you can get a volume discount (which would work for me) but its pointless without the liquidity.

I honestly don't know where people trade at anymore, or how a us citizen even could effectively trade in this market with all the options we've had taken from us.

First off, the real issue at hand is that there hasn't ever been this level of wallstreet involvement in the price. Even though it's controversial and people deny it, there is an extreme case to be made that wallstreet is using derivatives through naked short selling and dilution of the real 21 million supply to hold price down, and AND they are deliberately consolidating mining, bank rupting mining. AND Bitmain is generally a bad actor, doing shady things with the upcoming new ASIC models, using planned obsolescence to bankrupt miners.

The technicals are pretty broad with a case to be made that we could see 2k or we could just take off right from here to 30k. The idea is that we are finishing a macro multi year corrective zigzag or flat, and that 20,000$ was the multi year 5th wave, and we are going to start a new multi year impulse somewhere in between 2k and 14k that could go to 100k+ so while people get ultra butt hurt about 2 to 14k, the idea is we are *finishing* a multi year bear market and starting a banana nut crazy bull market.

Andreas Antonopolis says that he thinks the uliminted risk to the upside associated with wallstreet naked short selling the supply will put a limit on how abusive they can b e with rehypothecation. But we have some very very bad actors in the space.

Basically how long can they suppress price? How bad is China manipulation going to get?

I *think* raw demand and technical break throughs combined with the halvening should start the new bull market in spring 2020. Lightning network and regulatory clarity, investor onboarding in Asia. That's the idea I suppose, as bad as wallstreet is, that is the idea behind fidelity and ameritrade, is to get people to buy and hold physical btc. So a lot of the wait is on sharding, lightning, retail adoption, and legal clarity for custodianship.

But the elephant in the room is that we have some really bad actors in the space. The CFTC couldn't controll the price manipulation that occursif it wanted to. Bitcoin just isn't that controllable. Not like a normal asset.

Rouge Hedge funds, quant firms (including Alameda) and Bitmain, The chinese government, the us government, and the CME and BAKKT themselves are absolutely criminally influencing price. And I fear the rehypothecation is going to really really hurt btc.

We as a community really have to start talking about the negative effect these quant firms and the CME are having, and devising better plans to keep PHYSICAL demand for btc up

The business development and technological development and mainstreaming, adoption and integration fundamentals have never literally never been as good as they are now. We've even come lightyears in progress on the financial rights and legal development framework for the crypto economy.

And yet the 100,000 ton Brontosaurus in the room are several things that are most likely keeping the price down and most likely responsible for manipulation and keeping it suppressed.

-The US Gov is fundamentally a bad actor in the space. It doesn't cooperate with the rest of the world, exerts itself, and overbears in regulation, primarily to support the CME

-The CME is going to commit accounting fraud and naked short sell bitcoin as it has since 2017 to suppress the price. The CME is perpetually bearish and this is what the US gov wants. This is what wallstreet legacy finance want. They are hoarding, centralizing, and rehypothecatiing the price, and centralizing the mining, and contributing to the centralization of the mining.

-Wallstreet institutions are intentionally bankrupting miners to take over the mining space.

-The Financial sector/class/US regulators want to punish and put out of business existing exchanges (except coinbase) and existing miners and give the space over to an appointed monopoly run by institutions like Fidelity.

-They plan to do great harm to the space with The Bank Secrecy Act and FinCen



In short Wallstreet is hijacking the network and turning it into digital full KYC banking, with even less rights than a bank and less fungibility and integrity than holding gold at a money manager.

It's not FUD to deal with the legal realities of your entire industry. You treat it like a religion and you'll go bankrupt.

Just about no one on this subreddit understands Rehypothecation, the CME, or the price suppression of Gold and Silver and what the US has done to it the last 30 years. You don't understand geopolitics, and you think somehow bitcoin is invincible and magically different. You refuse to deal with the facts and paint any legal complexity as FUD. These are the same people who held altcoins 97% down. This is why Wallstreet is taking over.

It's absolutely ludicrous to call normal legal rammifications in the industry you work in FUD. You can't call legal obligations and realities and policies that you are forced to participate in FUD. Any industry that treated normal law and rule of law as FUD would completely crash. It's a broke retail mindset. At least I can say the Marijuana sector is drastically more legally intelligent and legally proactive about showing up and representing the matters, including the average investor, who tend to be drastically more sophisticated than crypto,. All I'm saying is they are mature and they deal with the realities. The crypto crowd is predominantly not cypherpunk, not sophisticated, and engages in evangelical religious like 'belief' in arbitrary price targets. It's not helping the industry.



The Asian's have the volume yet they don't control the price, the US does, why is that? It's because of law. Wallstreet has the legal framework to dictate the price. Very little western retail participation and representation legally, causes a situation where Wallstreet gets to largely dictate the entire environment of bitcoin, while Chinese miners ruthlessly dump the price. The run up in June was a Chinese Ponzi,. Had it not happened, the CME would have kept the price under 7k. The average american retail investor is literally relying upon the US governmentto open up bitcoin to pensions to make the price go up. And I'm telling you that is a fools errand.



The US is not the good guy in this situation. What we want is for the global south and Asia to mass buy bitcoiin. We want users, bodies, real people, not institutions.

I feel like Rehypothecation is the biggest threat to btc. If you understand that it is how the us gov and wallstreet ruined the ability of gold and silver price discovery as a price weapon as a political weapon, than you realize that it is going to do the same thing to bitcoin.

The CME just asked to double the supply of paper contracts leading up to halving and the Baakkt just introduced cash settled, and Options are coming.

Rehypothecation and the Banking Secrecy Act are the 100,000 ton brontosaurus in the room no one wants to talk about, the biggest threat to bitcoin besides the targeting of developers.

This thread dude. 

Someone low key telling me to move to somalia if I don't like it, unironically without getting the meme reference or understanding classical anarchism.

Everyone suggesting to avoid taxes, flee America, renounce citizenship, evade taxes.

Or to use hyper illiquid useless DEX.

Or to vote on a tool like Tulsi (dont worry they are all tools, even her)

Ya know basically anything but hold the hedge funds and regulators and lawmakers who are screwing bitcoin responsible, hold them responsible as public servants. Hold them to the standards that rich white liberal yuppie investors hold legacy finance towards.

This is definitely what Thomas Jefferson advised.

If you even have any money, if you even run some sort of business with crypto or have significant savings in it, then my posts apply. If you have nothing to lose because you don't have anything and want to post salty subcomments, then you know you might be part of the problem.

I'm politically anarchist for what' it's worth. But my point is, crypto and btc users are going to have to use their damn electoral politics, their actual representation and federal representatives. If we raised as much hell as legacy finance, if we spent the lobbying money they spent, if we didn't just lay back and take it, the regulators wouldn't be able to go this unchallenged.

The biggest issue stems from the US using the dollar as a political weapon and having a framework in the treasury department for infringing everyone everywhere's rights with overreaches in the patriot act and AML laws. I saw an article in cointelgraph asking if lawmakers are using AML as an excuse to centralize the industry

*YES THATS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT AND TO ENRICH THEIR WALLSTREET INSIDE TRADING FRIENDS*

Had people here read the FATF papers on bitcoin in June, I wouldn't get the smarm. If your LIVELIHOOD depends on crypto, YOU NEED TO READ THAT FATF PAPER. DO IT.

The treasury departments goal is to ultimately make bitcoin not bitcoin. They want to treat it as something that isn't fungible and isn't interchangeable in address, something that isn't peer to peer cash, emphasize on cash. They are struggling to do this,so they are going to be sneaky about it and attack the integrity of the network incrementally with regulations. They are asking bitcoin to be something it literally isn't and cannot be.

In order to do this they will have to go after third party wallet and hardware wallet providers and exchanges. They will have to create a gardened system that taints and tracks bitcoin in such a way, that it is bound to you like a bad case of fleas, ultimately debanking people, ratting them out to creditors. You basically lose all the aspects of bitcoin with NONE of the privacy of an actual real bank account. So as soon as someone Dox's you and your wallet amount that the feds have hoisted upon you, they can just come beat you to death in your house and take it (the hackers, but the feds certainly love to do that to people who wrong them aswell).

The IRS is profoundly unfair towards crypto. Refuses to give it commodity taxation or security taxation, no exemptions, no 475, no QBI. If you trade crypto on coinbase and live in San diego County you have a 50% tax rate FIFTY   PERCENT. In texas is you trade crude oil futures, you have a 27% tax rate.

All you hear from the alphabet bois everyday are threats, threats, and more threats.   Call your representatives and start fighting back. It' s not about bribing and lobbying, it's about the normal democratic process and holding public servants accountable and reminding them they are public servants.


People are just being naive.


I mean sure, if you like Bitcoin staying under 5000 dollars in perpetuity for pure wallstreet speculation. That's always the same attitude "We don't need to use normal politics, we don't need to apply normal finance policy to ourselves, politics doesn't apply, the government can't touch me or us, our haxor friends will develop more elusive things" and on and on and on.... more naive things

Walllstreet and the intelligence agency and treasury are openly threatening, promising, and ensuring a hostile takeover and perversity of the network. Because they are pragmatic, live in and of the world, and are gaming it, and doing as the world does, while you all choose to live in fantasy land in a perpetual libertarian meme. That's not how the real world works.

You're going to have to hold the government accountable just the 98% of the population who aren't libertarian do. If you do nothing, they will stomp it all into the ground. But I guess the libertarian meme culture of Bitcoin and political ignorance makes people think they can get away with being apolitical without consequences and somehow the alphebet bois won't just obliterate all of this into pure uselessness.

Do you really think you're going to compete with the US dollar by being apolitical? Mnuchin made a threat against bitcoin for trying to compete with the US Dollar.

Normies aren't going to use monero. I wish I could wake up tomorrow and everyone would be an outlaw and a monero advocate. IT's not going to happen. It's not.



Government officials have to be held accountabile, and if you are apolitical and apathetic and uninvolved, wallstreet will make the decisions for you, they will buy out and sell out bitcoin wholesale, as they are currently doing. The CME and paper contract watering down is the beginning of that process, where they will suppress price and cripple miners exactly like they have done silver and gold.

America runs this shit. It controls bitcoin, it controls gold, it controls the world.