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Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
BTC Hashrate dropping, but not minutes between blocks ...
by
streetgainer
on 20/08/2017, 17:52:37 UTC
Code:
"market_price_usd": 4122.42,
  "hash_rate": 6287500572.60,
  "total_fees_btc": 20432512162,
  "n_btc_mined": 171250000000,
  "n_tx": 214095,
  "n_blocks_mined": 137,
  "minutes_between_blocks": 9.98,
  "totalbc": 1651776250000000,
  "n_blocks_total": 481421,
  "estimated_transaction_volume_usd": 844042326.06,
  "blocks_size": 131747508,
  "miners_revenue_usd": 7901959.68,
  "nextretarget": 481823,
  "difficulty": 923233068448,
  "estimated_btc_sent": 20474434169559,
  "miners_revenue_btc": 1916,
  "total_btc_sent": 190770757645106,
  "trade_volume_btc": 42532.92,
  "trade_volume_usd": 175338629.59,
  "timestamp": 1503250813000

I've watched the hash rate go from 74... to 62..., however difficulty and minutes between blocks, remains consistent.
This could mean that miners are finding a balance to mine both btc and bch. Equilibrium.

Any thoughts?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD
by
streetgainer
on 09/07/2017, 16:10:45 UTC
More FUD about something Reggie has already answered

"Now... it was stated earlier that they can move it to a diiferent chain, if they can great because I think they won't have choice soon. Again, IMHO."



Veritaseum is platform agnostic per CEO Reggie Middleton

End of discussion .... oh in my fn humble opinion lol   

Anything else Activity 2 Newbie?


 Cheesy


Not only that, but remember, Veritaseum was already running on the Bitcoin blockchain/sidechain before this.  It's now being ported to run on the Etherium blockchain.


The previous beta Veri app was running on a sidechain? and not the mainchain? are you sure about that?
Post
Topic
Board Altcoin Discussion
Re: anyone can help me about ethereum wallet
by
streetgainer
on 09/07/2017, 05:02:59 UTC
how to verify my token because icant get my campaign payment that came for my campaign manager as a payment for signature campaign someone help me to do this..... i get my wallet at freewallet.org....here my address
0x3ec70535461d8a0fbbb93f9d386a9f63956362b5 and the transaction is here http://https//etherscan.io/token/0xb110ec7b1dcb8fab8dedbf28f53bc63ea5bedd84
What happen to this? Its on everybody or just me?

404 Not Found
nginx/1.4.6 (Ubuntu)

when i did try to access the link that shows up.

However, i dont have any knowledge on freewallet since i do make ether wallet on myetherwallet.com..

The URL is wrong. You have " http://https//etherscan.io/token/0xb110ec7b1dcb8fab8dedbf28f53bc63ea5bedd84" when it should probably be:
"https://etherscan.io/token/0xb110ec7b1dcb8fab8dedbf28f53bc63ea5bedd84"

See the difference?
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD
by
streetgainer
on 09/07/2017, 04:31:40 UTC
More FUD about something Reggie has already answered

"Now... it was stated earlier that they can move it to a diiferent chain, if they can great because I think they won't have choice soon. Again, IMHO."



Veritaseum is platform agnostic per CEO Reggie Middleton

End of discussion .... oh in my fn humble opinion lol   

Anything else Activity 2 Newbie?


 Cheesy


Newbie?... is that what I'm categorized as? Damn, that's pretty cool. Wink ... I've been around, a long time. Trust me.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD
by
streetgainer
on 09/07/2017, 03:52:43 UTC
I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released".

No. I meant "published".

We are in a decentralised, non-equity market. That means we are trading initially worthless tokens on a blockchain, not companies.

Ask yourself, what happens in an equity market when a company issues new shares at will and you purchase those shares. You still have your money because the company's entire asset base is owed back to you. Even if it converts your monetary capital into plant & machinery, those assets will be valued at an aggregate level, reconciled to a unit share value and their cost will always be owed back to you at LEAST at book value. Years later, if there's a discrepancy between the prevailing corporate valuation and what you paid for your share, that will be accounted for in a continuous sequence of annual trading accounts - even if it goes to zero.

Now lets compare that model with issuing tokens on a blockchain.

Centralised vs Decentralised Archetypes

The original (mining) archetype was that tokens would be "released" through a decentralised process whereby the market at least paid for the cost of production of the token. A common definition of "marketcap" evolved which was based on the "circulating supply" (the mined supply to date) and "total supply" (the maximum ever possible to be mined). This would allow investors to reference an aggregate value for the asset - in so far as it is traded as a security - and work back to a corresponding exchange ratio with other assets.

So each of those two types of asset - corporate equity on the one hand and decentralised blockchain assets on the other - had their own respective valuation discipline which allowed markets to engage in a reasonable price discovery process.

The issue I've been raising in my previous, so called "troll" posts, is that we are now seeing a wholesale corruption of both these disciplines where ICO issuers simply cherry pick the capital generation properties from each paradigm while flushing all the key accountability properties down the toilet. Before illustrating why, lets recap the contrasting definitions of "token release" and "token supply" in the respective business models:

Summary of Distinctions

A. In the equity model, you can create 'tokens' (shares) at will, but the capital raised is still owned by the existing shareholders, not by the directors. Companies are therefore justified in calling themselves the 'source' of the equity and can fairly be described as "releasing" new shares in the sense of creating new capital that has immediate value for those investing, since investor capital is simply crossing from one side of a fence to the other and is still owned by the investor even though they’ve parted with their cash

B. In the (classic) blockchain model, the invested capital is not owed back to the investor, but, tokens cannot be created at will. The investment comes from the miner who creates a monetary token at cost which the market then executes a price discovery process over to establish a final traded value

C. In BOTH cases, there is a categorical protocol for establishing an AGGREGATE valuation for the asset which is the only meaningful reference since unit valuations are simply an arbitrary subdivision of this. In the centralised model, it's the number of shares times the traded price per share. In the decentralised model it's the number of blockchain tokens created to date times the market value of the last traded token

Corrupted Hybrid

Now lets observe how all the principle disciplines of accountability from the above protocols have been discarded in order to create a new "corrupt" hybrid:

From A. we've retained the ability to create tokens at will, while we've lost the condition that the invested capital is to be owed back to the investor

From B. we've lost the cost of production of the tokens

From C. we've lost the requirement to report an aggregate valuation appropriate to our business model which therefore leaves the unit exchange rate wide open to 'gaming' (i.e. we're issuing tokens as if they were equity but reporting them as if they were the current 'mined' supply).

So, in summary: in a decentralised context, Reggie is not the "issuer" and should not be presenting himself as such. He is a trader who is at liberty to sell as much or as little of his wallet as he likes. The difference being that if he was an "issuer", buyers would still own the Ether/bitcoin that they paid him for the tokens. His full wallet therefore counts towards marketcap just as much as mine or yours.


’The more the merrier’

Lets turn for a moment to all the hand waving surrounding the idea that it’s actually a good thing that more tokens are sold - the so called “Metcalfe's Law”:

…platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here

There was no dispute here. It’s almost a universally understood concept that greater adoption garners value - even if it comes out of “Reggie’s wallet”. However “Metcalfe’s law” is no more than a philosophical nuance unless its effect can be measured and quantified at an aggregate level - independently of the type of asset concerned. Contrary to what Reggie asserts in that post, it’s not the “antithesis of what we have here”, otherwise he’d be selling software as a service and not as a tradeable “security”.

The reason this is significant is because there are two ways in which Metcalfe’s law can have an impact and only one of them benefits the small investor holding a fixed quantity of tokens. In particular, if all the new sales come out of a part of the supply that is not currently counting towards marketcap, then the Metcalfe’s law all goes into the hidden supply growth but the market’s valuing the unit rate as if there was none, so you’ve got this timebomb waiting to go off as soon as the real valuation is known. (NOTE: Nothing to do with ‘dilution’, simply establishing an authentic, commonly accepted aggregate valuation).

What’s a ‘Security

Finally, lets consider the idea that’s been posted both by Reggie and by others that VERI somehow “isn’t a security”. All I’d say to that is that it’s the market that decides whether it’s a security or not and basically anything at all that has a resale value and a variable price is a potential candidate.

There are indeed some justifiable cases for arguing that a “blockchain token is not a security”, but only when the market is deprived of making trading gains on it and they’re more properly described here by one of the more respected Ethereum project staff (and none of which apply to the VERI token).

http://i.imgur.com/AmLC2r7.png

That debate of whether it's a security or not, I will leave for Reggie to tackle. However, this is actually a revealing video and speaks to eth's vulnerabilities. Here you have Vlad claiming PoS was never "promised" by eth devs, that's total BS!, as PoS was mentioned in their plans for some time. There's a HUGE problem on the horizon for Ethereum and it seems not many are willing to admit this. I think the Veri crew will soon realize that using the eth chain was a big mistake, IMHO. This is the only problem I see. Now... it was stated earlier that they can move it to a diiferent chain, if they can great because I think they won't have choice soon. Again, IMHO.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD
by
streetgainer
on 09/07/2017, 01:00:00 UTC
Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

 • they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
 • they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.  

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

and... Reggie... mike drop.  

I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released". What he's trying to say is that he's afraid of the largest wallet holder, that being Reggie, dumping coins into the $VERI market. This phenomenon has been a MAJOR pet peeve amongst $XRP investors and buyers, to the point where the Ripple CEO had to release a pledge to not dilute the $XRP market.... http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/ this is real concern!!

I'm a $VERI holder, so I believe in this project. I've been following Reggie since his BBB days, and if you don't know what the initial's BBB represent then you haven't been following Reggie Middleton for long. Amongst many things, there is one thing I have learned the most from his publishings, and that is to NOT be sheepish. Always look under the hood, and be cautious when the crowd is chanting buy, buy, buy!! So I like to sometimes play devils advocate even for projects I support. This keeps me balanced and objective. So here's my devils advocate position I hope some of you can address...

I'm not concerned with the dilution issue the other poster has raised, as I believe Reggie knows better than anyone else what the imbalance of supply to demand can do to a market, for better and for worse. Example: He released a note on the collapse of oil (despite OPEC's promise to cut) that is so astonishingly accurate today, that it's f'king creepy!!.... but here's the kicker, he released this note over a year ago.. https://blog.veritaseum.com/current-analysis/1-blog/180-as-experts-speculators-await-higher-oil-prices-i-anticipate-a-new-energy-paradigm-monetize-your-outlook-through-veritaseum. So Reggie Middleton knows imbalance when he sees imbalance and I'm sure he won't go there.

My concern is his decision to run his coin under the Ethererum chain. The ERC20, where every ICO, and their mothers uncles brothers ICO is popping up!
I believe that this may be causing price problems for $eth, to put it mildly, and will invariably affect it going forward as more and more ICO's hit. Here's a good discussion thread on the issue.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6ih5wc/icos_and_their_effect_of_eth_prices/

That being said, what happens to the price of $VERI, when the price of $ETH collapses back to... let's say... $50USD?.... I know what you're thinking... "WHAT?!! WHO!!?? WHERE??!!!...NO WAY IT GOES BACK TO $50!!!..."

Well, it can happen, and most likely will. So has anyone looked to see if there is any correlation in the movement of $VERI to $ETH?... There's a world of difference between .55 veri/eth cost, when $ETH is at $245USD, then there is when $ETH goes to $50.

By being an ERC20 coin $VERI is in a muddy pool right now. When $ETH blows, I don't think there's an ERC20 coin that will be immune. This is my concern!
He should have established his coin on a BTC Sidechain.

Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.



If the price of ETH decreases and demand for VERI remains the same the VERI/ETH price will simply increase. For example, in countries with high inflation rates their food doesn't become cheaper, the price of the food in that particular unit of account simply increases. Also VERI can be moved to other blockchains if the ethereum blockchain is no longer the best option.


Thanks for responding Masiah,

We're not simply talking about a generic inflation 101 formula here, there's an actual "affect" on price across the board if and when $eth goes. I think more analogous to deflation, prices declining as less and less people use/trust $eth, or at least find alternatives. Which brings me to your next point you said... "VERI can be moved to other blockchains if the ethereum blockchain is no longer the best option." ... This is ABSOLUTELY the best thing I've seen or read in all discussions and posts. If this is a fact, and I'm not doubting you, I'm just saying, if the Veritaseum machine is portable enough to be moved from $eth (Solidity) to a BTC Sidechain, then hands down without a shadow of a doubt it's a winner.
Post
Topic
Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: VERITASEUM DISCUSSION THREAD
by
streetgainer
on 08/07/2017, 22:35:58 UTC
Ok. Comical interlude over.

I apologise for winding you up @paulmaritz. I should not have done that as it isn't my intention to use these posts to make people feel uncomfortable.

But lets take stock as to who is the real troll here.

I have been contributing considered opinion, often accompanied by some reasonable argument and the odd bit of anecdotal illustration and calculation. I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers. I've also been careful not to use the "s" word, nor have I dismissed this token's fundamentals, which I believe to be sound, and nor have I "ad hominem'd" anybody as far as I'm aware.

What have you contributed of illuminating value ? You posted that coinmarketcom quote which was useful - I hadn't seen that. Apart form that, a large amount of handwaving and pictures of trolls.

So maybe a truce would be fruitful plus a more constructive appraisal of the matter at hand.

The issue as I see it is that when you have a single holder with a large amount of asset to sell in an illiquid market you need some kind of market leader to act as a price discovery mechanism so you can go and negotiate with 'large buyers' and make so called 'institutional sales'. (Which are not actually institutional at all since there are no institutions regulating them, they're just sales).

That was the role of the ICO and subsequent market rise on tiny volume.

What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates and large volumes which come from outside the published coin supply but which effectively qualify as 'circulating supply' since the tokens have now been distributed. This is great for large investors but for small investors there is considerably more risk from 2 sources:

1. a step change in published supply invoking a large and abrupt correction to the downside in token exchange rate to compensate for marketcap growth

2. an arbitrage driven correction between OTC and Exchange markets

I'm not necessarily saying that this will happen, I'm just pointing out that this risk is carried disproportionally by the small investor because:

 • they do not gain from the liquidity increase (as the ICO issuer does)
 • they do not gain from the OTC discount (as the 'institutional buyer' does)

Sure, it may all work out and as has been pointed out, some other assets do this to a limited extent. But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental (which is why I suggested the policy of marketcap reporting is being 'gamed') and its something that no investor has control over. Their interests do depend on things staying that way as far as I can see.

Litecoin has 84,000,000 million coins but they are currently only at 51,000,000 million...why are you not calling LTC a scam or XRP, or BTC or any others for that matter?

Because Litecoin is a mined coin. The 84,000,000 don't currently exist whereas the 100,000,000 VERI do, are currently in a wallet and ready to be sold at the holder's whim. There's no "2 Million liquid supply" and "98 million illiquid supply". There's just a 100 Million token wallet with a single holder.

I won't call you a troll. You actually do raise some points worth considering. The problem is that you are disseminating opinion as fact, and it is incorrect and simply wrong. For instance, you said "What will happen now is that OTC (over the counter) sales will be made at significantly discounted token-to-coin exchange rates".
That's simply incorrect. Ask anyone who has purchased in bulk, they will tell you that thus far we have sold at a "premium" to the so-called "token-to-coin exchange rates", not a discount. You see, the problem is that you do not understand the business model of Veritaseum. It is a software solutions and financial engineering platform, and not a make believe faux security. You reasoning keeps defaulting to the latter, despite my and others having corrected you several times.  

You also stated "I've done so in good faith because having traded these markets for 4 years you observe certain things that are blatantly obvious market movers."
It is apparent that you have not traded in anything similar to Veritaseum with a economic platform business model or you would realize that the more the merrier (you know, Metcalfe's Law, and all...). Again, you are consistently looking at the economics as a inflationary item count or some sort of dilutive effect similar to traded equities. That is almost the antithesis of what we have here. Basically you don't get it, but you are obvisouly an intelligent guy, so it is apparent that you can get it. This leads to troll comments from others in the forum, because it seems as if you don't want to get it.

The biggest visible distribution from "reggie's wallet" of tokens thus far would be the proposed Jamaican Stock Exchange deal. That caused VERI price to more than double, So here, we have a real world example of what you declaring, yet the real world effect is the opposite of what you are asserting. There are many more deals in the pipeline, most are as large, and many are larger than the JSE deal. I would expect a pop with each deal as the network effect grows stronger, but you will be left in a lurch as you look at things from a value dilutive perspective. It's accretive, if anything.

You also stated "But the ratio of published to unpublished supply in this case is absolutely monumental ". That comment is nonsensical. The entire issuance is published, it's called the blockchain - the point of this entire exercise. Isn't that how you came to find out about the amount? Everyone else in the world can do the same thing.

and... Reggie... mike drop. 

I think by using the word "published", this guy confused his point. I think he means "released". What he's trying to say is that he's afraid of the largest wallet holder, that being Reggie, dumping coins into the $VERI market. This phenomenon has been a MAJOR pet peeve amongst $XRP investors and buyers, to the point where the Ripple CEO had to release a pledge to not dilute the $XRP market.... http://www.coindesk.com/ripple-pledges-lock-14-billion-xrp-cryptocurrency/ this is real concern!!

I'm a $VERI holder, so I believe in this project. I've been following Reggie since his BBB days, and if you don't know what the initial's BBB represent then you haven't been following Reggie Middleton for long. Amongst many things, there is one thing I have learned the most from his publishings, and that is to NOT be sheepish. Always look under the hood, and be cautious when the crowd is chanting buy, buy, buy!! So I like to sometimes play devils advocate even for projects I support. This keeps me balanced and objective. So here's my devils advocate position I hope some of you can address...

I'm not concerned with the dilution issue the other poster has raised, as I believe Reggie knows better than anyone else what the imbalance of supply to demand can do to a market, for better and for worse. Example: He released a note on the collapse of oil (despite OPEC's promise to cut) that is so astonishingly accurate today, that it's f'king creepy!!.... but here's the kicker, he released this note over a year ago.. https://blog.veritaseum.com/current-analysis/1-blog/180-as-experts-speculators-await-higher-oil-prices-i-anticipate-a-new-energy-paradigm-monetize-your-outlook-through-veritaseum. So Reggie Middleton knows imbalance when he sees imbalance and I'm sure he won't go there.

My concern is his decision to run his coin under the Ethererum chain. The ERC20, where every ICO, and their mothers uncles brothers ICO is popping up!
I believe that this may be causing price problems for $eth, to put it mildly, and will invariably affect it going forward as more and more ICO's hit. Here's a good discussion thread on the issue.. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethtrader/comments/6ih5wc/icos_and_their_effect_of_eth_prices/

That being said, what happens to the price of $VERI, when the price of $ETH collapses back to... let's say... $50USD?.... I know what you're thinking... "WHAT?!! WHO!!?? WHERE??!!!...NO WAY IT GOES BACK TO $50!!!..."

Well, it can happen, and most likely will. So has anyone looked to see if there is any correlation in the movement of $VERI to $ETH?... There's a world of difference between .55 veri/eth cost, when $ETH is at $245USD, then there is when $ETH goes to $50.

By being an ERC20 coin $VERI is in a muddy pool right now. When $ETH blows, I don't think there's an ERC20 coin that will be immune. This is my concern!
He should have established his coin on a BTC Sidechain.

Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.