Um, no. High level history of BTS:
Protoshares was launched as a minable investment vehicle, ----devs underestimated the pump/demand and weren't able to mine enough to sustain themselves. so they introduced AGS to raise more money when the mine to fund failed. along side AGS which users could donate PTS or BTC directly without mining.  50% PTS and 50% AGS is what made up the genesis block of BTS, this was quite fair.  -- Distribution is not fair as 1 PTS ~ 1BTS was the original plan. Now AGS was raising funding in PTS too. So each PTS you donated meant 1 AGS to you. And (assuming parity for sake of simple explanation) 1AGS = 1BTS for you but....the PTS raised within the AGS framework also got their allocation. So it meant, 1 PTS donated = 1AGS=1BTS For you + 1 BTS for 3I because of the ownership. Yes they promised they wont use BTS earned from the raised PTS for any use but in crypto, promises mean shit. They should have burned it and reduced the total coin but they dint.  Original plan was to have individual dac's such as BTS, Vote, Play, Music, etc... however this would divide the attention of the dev's too greatly.  Thus with PTS and AGS no longer viable, why not unite all the products under one umbrella?  Great win for investors, great win for the dev's who can concentrate on one super DAC with all the features of the individual dacs.  BTC and LTC were born competitors, BTS simply originated from PTS and AGS.

There was no clear consensus on the "super DAC" and people had rejected the PTS rollup to BTS too. Those concerns have been ignored. So nope, not a great win for investors. Just my 2 cents to it.

Huh? is all I can give for the example you gave. half ounce at price of 1 is clear scam and it will be restricted but is not same as not allowing people to short wherever they want. I am sorry but was the point of the thread to get an opinion or was it to throw absurd examples to support BTSX. If its latter, I leave the thread to you.

Here's the thing if people act "greedily" they should be acting greedy about their BTSX holding too. That would mean net shorts will always be higher than net longs - isnt that the case in the current market? There have been quite a lot of restrictions put in place to not allow people to short. Something like - you cant short below 5% (not sure) below the MA price or interest bearing etc. So BTSX on one hand believes people to act rationally (greedy) but disallows people to act on their own accord (based on their greed). How is that a good thing?

Problem with NuBits and BTSX is same, free market reign is restricted given, while talking about the market is free. Not a good combination.

Short answer - Neither
Long answer - Both of them have an inherited structured which relies of market management (more like manipulation) by largest holders - the fight to fix price to $1.

That was not meant as a praise 

Again like many things said in this thread solely your opinion - long term returns etc.

Well for things to become a killer app they need to be noob friendly. Unfortunately for crypto majority of things don't even come close. Given that supernet explanation is confusing (or as some supernet supporters say - you don't understand jl777 vision), I don't see it becoming killer app (IMO )

Direct fiat exchanging doesn't mean they are not pegged to bitcoin. Their prices will be based on triangulation between XYZ/BTC and BTC/USD rather being a direct exchange between XYZ/USD. Even then good for you.

Nothing as of now. There are two major issues:
1. Every altcoin has to invariably be pegged to bitcoin. So its fate is in some way tied to bitcoin. Until you have a coin big enough to exist independently and traded with USD, you are not going any where.

2. Lack of market. Some altcoins have their own "markets" but they are just convoluted implementations for any retail business to even look at. Then there are some who completely forget about that and think anonymity or some new mining algo is the way out. It isnt. Bitcoin took ages to reach even this stage of acceptance, so unless you have a great marketing plan or an idiot proof way to get retailers on your platform, forget about killing bitcoin.

It might be an ideal way for NXT whales too but I am not going to comment on that. I have been trying to follow the supernet thread for sometime but the constant addition (or BSing) is making my head spin. Best of luck to any one investing in it. I hope you guys make it out safely

That said I have been watching some of the coins on the forum, and god there is so much shit to shovel through. These shitcoins make jl777 ipo seem like a diamond.
These include Umbrella backed and insured coin - wtf are those?
Then there was a new 50 BTC ICO for Volatility coin, track volatility and do what exactly? I am not even sure and people bought 50 BTC worth. If they paid me that much, I would have finished the digging and prepared a report instead. I have to say, so many morons on this forum.

Consider this - all altcoins are pegged to bitcoin, so they too are loosing in value with the price slide. Some might be holding or gaining, most probably due to either them holding their price or declining at a much slower rate.

Doesn't really matter with fewer people interested in digging and less newer discussions not happening; this will anyways die off.

Short answer: None

Long Answer: None. Many coins on BCT suffer from this behaviour which I find intolerable - you can't "demand" respect which many devs do and pat themselves on the back.

I was going to lock this thread but have decided against it.

Anyone wanting to crunch the numbers you can start with
1. "share of the total" is basically how much a particular price adds to the "holding company/asset total". Normally, value should reflect the constituents + a premium or a discount on the future prospect. Example - Nxtprivacy is priced at 9% discount over the holding, jl777hodl is at 8% premium, whereas sharkfund0 is at whopping 35% premium.


2. If you invest 10000 NXT into jl777 or sharkfund0, what will you finally buying and what cost? example - NXTPrivacy holds 40% cryptocard and 60% private bet, investing in NXTPrivacy and privatebet at 10% both means you buy 10% privatebet + how much more %age of privatebet + cyrptocard?

3. From above if the holding company pricing = constituent asset + premium or - discount, how would buying a constituent affect the asset price? or how would buying the asset affect the constituent price? Where does the money flow to?

Not really baffled, rather sad over the period of time. Normally there are ANN threads where I say something, people start FUD, FUD, FUD, and I keep my mouth shut and move on. Then there was winning proclamation that "oh, we chased the guy away!" and lot of chest thumping. I don't really mind it.

But this was not SuperNet ANN thread and neither this was not an all-out attack. I thought people would read properly and have better sense which obviously they dint, this was not something which went down well with me about Monero and now not with SuperNet.

In any case, nice discussion with you on this. Thanks.

Meh, I am not going to do the numbers for anyone who doesn't want to do it. shout as they may.  Frankly dont care cause its people's money to burn.
 
I hope you do understand how holding companies are structured and supposed to work when you made the unorthodox holding comment. Not just a wiki page definition as to what they actually are. I remember jl777 giving a keiretsu comment and he was taken to the woodshed.

I have been quite clear with my intentions early on, people are free to not believe me and invest, convincing was never intention of this thread. The title set was - "Read before investing in SuperNet" not "Supernet is a scam, run run run!!". So I feel attempts by some supernet people unwarranted and concerning -- that alone is enough for me to not invest - aside from my concerns about jl777, I am not going to be part of any coin community which thinks shouting down a person trying to present a contararion view is the way to go about. Yes that means I have hardly got coins into which I invest in but I am happy with what I got.

Thank you


Um, no, I have more than enough evidence and its all there in the op. They say "devil is in the details" and it would get an astute thinker to go through whats been presented and what I am getting at. I think the op already says something along the line that - "you might interpret what has been written in your own way. but if you need help get someone else to help you". most of the assets from jl777 are holding companies and holding companies holding another companies holding another companies are fishy even in the real world - in a "ponzi" kind of way.

I like that you admit to the colored glasses but then in a similarly expressed opinion, I would say I am not pro or anti anyone, but then people find it difficult to believe as I am obviously spreading FUD (it is a newbie account right? so why bother).

The only person, I actually engaged was Este Nuno, because he wanted "proofs", I even called him a moron for doing that. If he is happy with what is there in front of him and wants to invest, it was his prerogative. This has been repeated a large number of times. People who want details can dig and find out. I for one, frankly don't have the time to spoon feed the details. Hence giving up on replying to him. Hell I might even lock this thread for good cause there is no more discussion required. Anyone who wants to know more can do their own research.
Still thanks for the warning.

I think its fine if one supports his/her own currency, its just that people go into the "FUD" "FUD" mode which concerns me. I am trying to learn how to separate wheat from chaff but its too difficult when you get slammed for asking dev a difficult question,

what? The comment was on throwing money on bleeding edge technology without understanding it, not the market cap.

I see a post which makes an half assed attempts at being smart and want to go in the "jerk mode".

Really appreciate this post even though I even called you suspicious on the Simgate asset and jl777hodl having majority of them.

The evidence is clearly from the fact that cross asset holds in cases exceeds 50% which should be suspicious in itself but I guess we on BCT are so blind with "reputation only" that it requires empirical evidence from me and not from jl777.  It is at best a "surmised" explanation.

I can only say Huh? and offer you something like this. Say ethereum team offers 10million coin for sale (ethereum cause they call themselves DACs rather than coins), out of which only 1.4million is sold. And it is such that, 0.532 million of coins is held by Vitalik. Now tell me what is wrong with the picture? (hint distribution)

I for one having been saying that its fine if you want to invest in Supernet ie"agree to disagree". But you kept piling on "op doesn't understand" or "what proof you have of a pump?" whereas it was already stated. So thankfully, that got through you that I am fine with you not agreeing but please abstain from stating things emanating out of it as facts.

Ok my bad on the comment then. Its difficult to read motives when you are throwing things like "op doesn't understand". Though I am scratching my head, whats so shocking about Bitmark not deciding to join and you being part of it? hm....you mean how I called you an unreliable "objective" observer? Read the first line of this para.

As for the long list, its basically gateway for crypto + fiat along with intergrated exchange (how many coins have that in their wallet?). Maybe bitmark's reputation system and privatebet will be something new. And what is that exactly worth? 10k BTC?

Relevant assets for the proposed deal?

what you say now and said earlier are in clear conflict. First you say "OP was not aware that jl777 has been open about his asset ownership and the asset cross ownership and has not made any attempts to hide those facts. It's listed in the superNET OP." meaning jl777 has highligted all his dealings and people on his thread are aware of it that too in the thread op and I was in the wrong., now you say only what is relevant?

As I said, you flip flop so often its quite clear (IMO ) where your sympathy lies.

Lets say even if those are "relevant" actually do some maths and see if the calculations he gave hold up (now before you ask me for proof, for once be an objective observer and do some digging).

Yes you can be objective and have opinions but not present them as facts.

The whole wealthy thing is your perception, and if you follow the "facts" - the largest owners of sharkfund0 (again to rake this up, why I am mentioning this is because of the 400% returns) - is that the largest "wealthy" owner of sharkfund0 is jl777 himself. The largest holder after his fund are:
 NXT-G9WM-6HNW-FMF2-6T8M2 @ 12.5%. Though this account holds most of the jl777 assets only, I still refrained from making a wild guess and saying this was his too
NXT-3R28-ZBCB-E8GT-C34JC - @ 10%

rounding up more than 85% of the issue. So I am still finding the whole "largest owenrs" of nxt part unbelievable.

You know, again in the realm of "agree to disagree", it could also mean that NXT AE is full of shitty assets no one wants to hold. Anyone wanting to utilise AE needs to depend on jl777's asset. Something like cryptsy on cryptostocks.com  

Edit: Anways I am tired of debating this out with you. But if you think reputation and "not showing any signs" is good enough, do read up on Allen Stanford - his name was synomous with Standford university even when he was not associated with it.

Edited.