Search content
Sort by

Showing 20 of 109 results by tanerlorn
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: The great rally will begin at the next slight drop
by
tanerlorn
on 18/08/2011, 13:19:37 UTC
Your TLDR is longer than the meat of your post.

Also, all time low? ALL TIME LOW? in the past ~3 months you mean...
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: Flexcoin is LIVE to everyone!
by
tanerlorn
on 11/08/2011, 08:57:32 UTC
I have a pertinent question. Who the f are you and why should we send you bitcoins? Are ppl really gonna be stupid enough to fall for the mybtc thing all over again?

Seriously the entire point of bitcoin is 100% control over your own money.
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: So since no Bitcoin service can be trusted anymore ...
by
tanerlorn
on 03/08/2011, 00:50:06 UTC
There already is an alternative to government court systems, and it happens all the time, more so in "primitive" communities, but it is in my opinion the best solution, especially in thefts like these

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: How bitcoins are the perfect chips for poker
by
tanerlorn
on 31/07/2011, 19:09:38 UTC
Phinnaeus, you may want to check out btcontilt, the software is a bit smoother than betcoin

Sources:

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=31755.0

http://www.btcontilt.com
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: The Ponzi scheme argument
by
tanerlorn
on 15/07/2011, 13:08:33 UTC
What I've come to realize is that Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme. But so what?

The US Dollar is also a ponzi scheme, by the definition of a ponzi scheme.

A ponzi scheme is just anything in which the first people to get in benefit greatly at the expense of those who are late to get in.

The difference? In Bitcoin people who are smart and took to the concept early are rewarded, in US Dollars, banks and governments are rewarded, and we the people are SCREWED time and time again.

I for one would much rather be a part of a ponzi scheme that is actually controlled by the people as a whole, instead of some elite power structure. And I think the average people feel that way as well. Every person I know hates banks, they're simply sick of getting raped by them. They just don't know what they can do about it. Yet.
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Re: usd price to follow block number?
by
tanerlorn
on 14/07/2011, 19:20:20 UTC
Block number and price should technically be an inverse relationship, all other things being equal.  The higher the block number, the higher the supply of BTC, the lower the price point needed to match supply & demand.

no, block number and VALUE should be an inverse relationship..... block number and price in usd is not at all, also i just mean for a while during the period btc is illegal but governments still exist...im basically brainstorming good estimations for value just looking at the client right now...
Post
Topic
Board Speculation
Topic OP
usd price to follow block number?
by
tanerlorn
on 14/07/2011, 19:00:24 UTC
usd price is now block number / 10,000

will this be the longterm accurate picture of bitcoin? (would be helpful once the exchanges are shut down by the us, as all bitcoin trades will have to be hand to hand, through trusted nodes, and word of mouth)
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: TradeHill - Security Update - 2 step authentication is live
by
tanerlorn
on 13/07/2011, 12:01:46 UTC
Physical tokens are not for everyone. As someone who is always on the move and works in industrial environments regularly, it is not feasible for me carry around another usb stick everywhere I go. I would hate to be locked out of my account for a few days simply because I lost the physical token. On the other hand, I am never without my phone, so sms notifications work great for me. I don't see any other exchange providing that kind of service.

Good point, I think the vast majority of people the token is best for but the phone service for customers like you who do need it is a great move.
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: TradeHill - Security Update - 2 step authentication is live
by
tanerlorn
on 13/07/2011, 10:58:51 UTC
omg awesome works amazing

+1

I think this together with the new site currently in production, once released, could see MtGox being left behind very quickly.

Except mtgox sent the same thing to all their customers affected by the breach. And has it available for new users by request, I think.

Not to take anything away from Trade Hill, this is an outstanding business move. Everyone should get one of these (the physical token).

And the market seems to have possibly even reacted to this news. For the longest time it was slightly better to have mtgox usd, even after the hacking, btc prices would be like a few cents lower on mtgox, showing that the market valued mtgox usd more. However, looking at the market for the first time now I see Trade Hill usd is being valued higher than mtgox usd, as 14 Trade Hill usd will get you a bitcoin, as opposed to (the outrageous) 14.1 mtgox usd. I know where I'm trading if I need to sell some btc, at least at the current prices.
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: Introducing BitApparel.com [beta] - quality apparel for less
by
tanerlorn
on 13/07/2011, 10:50:04 UTC
Got my Chaps easy care short sleeve shirt a few days ago and it is high quality. Also appreciated the special gift of the Sean john sunglasses, very nice. Quick and professional service. Outstanding doing business with you.
Post
Topic
Board Bitcoin Discussion
Re: incentive to forward transactions?
by
tanerlorn
on 13/07/2011, 10:35:07 UTC
right, you are asking good questions and thinking critically here, but let me explain to you why it wont be a problem

what you say is true of course but you have to consider that everybody knows if everybody does it, the network will collapse. so all miners will almost certainly not do it since then the value of their bitcoins would collapse. now theres always gonna be 5-10% of the population who will be greedy and not do it, but its basically prisoners dilemma, but with a twist where if EVERYBODY acts in their own best interest its actual in their worst interest, so incentive is extremely high to just forward transactions

even if you just consider pools as one miner, thats still a good 50-60 mining clusters plus everyone who gambles it up solo, market incentives is just too high for everyone to not forward transactions imo
Post
Topic
Board Exchanges
Re: www.BitcoinExchange.cc - Western Union, MoneyGram, MoneyPak, ACH/Wire, Dwolla
by
tanerlorn
on 12/07/2011, 20:40:15 UTC
Received a payment, payment was very fast and service was professional.
Post
Topic
Board Mining
Re: eBay update: prices coming way down
by
tanerlorn
on 12/07/2011, 05:56:58 UTC
Guys relax, lets all go to church and cry our eyes out thinking about when Jesus is gonna come back.


I'll tell you what would happen if Jesus came back. We would lock him up in jail and put him in the electric chair, that's what we would do.
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: 5 BTC Bounty - break site and help community (and earn 5 coins!)
by
tanerlorn
on 08/07/2011, 13:59:58 UTC
I have achieved another crash

I believe this is replicable

This happened on a 60 sec table

1. Let your time run down till the red bar is disappeared, then fold (This is tough and might require a few tries, but you have to fold right as it disappears, and it WON'T sit you out for timing out.

2. The next hand will be dealt, and you wont see cards or buttons

3. Refresh the page, and cards and buttons appear
Post
Topic
Board Mining
Re: There will be lots of cheap GPUs for sale eventually
by
tanerlorn
on 07/07/2011, 19:55:09 UTC
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???
Matthew how come you keep ignoring me???

Fixed your retarded post for you

Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today
Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today
Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today
Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today
Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today
Quote
there's no way you're going to see $350 in Bitcoins at today's Bitcoin price from one of those cards if you purchased it today

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!

Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Congrats, you're right! Good thing the price of Bitcoins is going to stay stable at the same exact price its at for the next million years!
Post
Topic
Board Politics & Society
Re: Book request to the dwellers Politics & Society
by
tanerlorn
on 07/07/2011, 09:49:35 UTC
I highly recommend you all read "The Greatest Story Never Told" by one Lana Cantrell. I'm 300 pages through and its blowing my mind.

Here is a link

http://ca.isohunt.com/download/291083949/greatest+story+never+told.torrent
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: [BETA] Dark Exchange: a 100% decentralized p2p exchange
by
tanerlorn
on 07/07/2011, 03:29:37 UTC
Morph,

What is your address? I'd like to donate to you for your time (and I think others may as well)
Post
Topic
Board Gambling
Re: Texas Hold'em Poker Room - NL, Limit, Potlimit tables available.
by
tanerlorn
on 06/07/2011, 19:11:38 UTC
bug -- guy bet 22 or something on the river, i had 29 left or something and tried to click raise button, but it wouldn't take - after clicking it a dozen times i was timing out and clicked call, which worked...  just an fyi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_in_poker#Incomplete_bet_or_raise

Regarding this bug, it has nothing to do with this link you posted. The link is about reopening the betting action.

Micon is saying that he had 29 chips left on river, opponent bet 22 to him and he could only call or fold, not raise his last 7 more chips.

I can confirm that this bug is indeed happening since the last update. You can recreate it yourself easily, just go to a table with two test accounts, and get in a similar situation on the river, where you bet more than half your opponent's stack. Try differing amounts, I'm not sure if it works with all different amounts, but I have had this happen to me several times now since the last server restart.

Also, another bug since the last server restart is sometimes you can't even raise allin when its a big raise size. Example: opponent has 1000 chips on river, I have 1000. He bets 25, I try to raise to 1000 but when I click raise the raise button doesn't process. I try over and over again to raise to 1000 but it doesn't work, I move the bar slightly down to 998 and it works. Or any other amount or clicking call works, just raising allin doesn't. I think it may have something to do with the superfluous fractions of chip that are kept in player chipstacks, like when you have 1000.25 and you bet allin it only bets 1000, and then the other player can raise you and then you have the option to call with your last 0.25 chips allin, or fold. I'm not sure if these bugs happen every time but I can confirm they have happened multiple times.

Also, a little more info on the freezes, freezing seems to be highly dependent on clicking rebuy, I freeze maybe 20% of the time when I click rebuy, as compared to 1% of the time normally.
Post
Topic
Board Marketplace
Re: 5 BTC Bounty - break site and help community (and earn 5 coins!)
by
tanerlorn
on 06/07/2011, 06:46:30 UTC
I have gotten it to break.

1. Playing heads up.

2. Opponent wins a pot.

3. I click rebuy and click chips then quickly fold

4. Next hand comes up and I have no cards or no buttons. Soon I see the red bar on me indicating its my action. I am then folded without ever seeing cards.

Here is firebug console

Quote
playerSelf.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,3,2000,1,2500,5,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075774"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"packet_id":257,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"time__":1309934571830}
table.handler {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"packet_id":257,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075775"}
player.handler {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"packet_id":257,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075775"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"time__":1309934571830}
table.handler {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075776"}
player.handler {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075776"}
connection handle 11045: {"players":[10697,11006],"cookie":"","packet_id":258,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerInGame","time__":1309934571830}
table.handler {"players":[10697,11006],"cookie":"","packet_id":258,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerInGame","uid__":"jpoker1309934075777"}
player.handler {"players":[10697,11006],"cookie":"","packet_id":258,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerInGame","uid__":"jpoker1309934075777"}
playerSelf.handler {"players":[10697,11006],"cookie":"","packet_id":258,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerInGame","uid__":"jpoker1309934075777"}
player.handler {"players":[10697,11006],"cookie":"","packet_id":258,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerInGame","uid__":"jpoker1309934075777"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"type":"PacketPokerDealer","dealer":9,"previous_dealer":0,"packet_id":259,"time__":1309934571830}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"type":"PacketPokerDealer","dealer":9,"previous_dealer":0,"packet_id":259,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075778"}
connection handle 11045: {"packet_id":260,"level":0,"hand_serial":221961,"cookie":"","hands_count":27,"time":608,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerStart","time__":1309934571830}
table.handler {"packet_id":260,"level":0,"hand_serial":221961,"cookie":"","hands_count":27,"time":608,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerStart","uid__":"jpoker1309934075779"}
player.handler {"packet_id":260,"level":0,"hand_serial":221961,"cookie":"","hands_count":27,"time":608,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerStart","uid__":"jpoker1309934075779"}
playerSelf.handler {"packet_id":260,"level":0,"hand_serial":221961,"cookie":"","hands_count":27,"time":608,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerStart","uid__":"jpoker1309934075779"}
player.handler {"packet_id":260,"level":0,"hand_serial":221961,"cookie":"","hands_count":27,"time":608,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerStart","uid__":"jpoker1309934075779"}
connection handle 11045: {"cards":[],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerBoardCards","time__":1309934571831}
table.handler {"cards":[],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerBoardCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075780"}
player.handler {"cards":[],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerBoardCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075780"}
playerSelf.handler {"cards":[],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerBoardCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075780"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":46234,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"time__":1309934571831}
table.handler {"money":46234,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075781"}
player.handler {"money":46234,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075781"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":46234,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075781"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,3,2000,1,2500,5,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"time__":1309934571831}
table.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,3,2000,1,2500,5,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075782"}
player.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,3,2000,1,2500,5,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075782"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,3,2000,1,2500,5,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075782"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"time__":1309934571831}
table.handler {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075783"}
player.handler {"money":72578,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075783"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"time__":1309934571831}
table.handler {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075784"}
player.handler {"money":[1,78,100,6,200,7,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075784"}
connection handle 11045: {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerChipsPotReset","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"time__":1309934571832}
table.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerChipsPotReset","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075785"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerChipsPotReset","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075785"}
playerSelf.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerChipsPotReset","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075785"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerChipsPotReset","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075785"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"time__":1309934571832}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075786"}
player.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075786"}
connection handle 11045: {"dead":0,"amount":300,"cookie":"","packet_id":262,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","time__":1309934571832}
table.handler {"dead":0,"amount":300,"cookie":"","packet_id":262,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","uid__":"jpoker1309934075787"}
player.handler {"dead":0,"amount":300,"cookie":"","packet_id":262,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","uid__":"jpoker1309934075787"}
connection handle 11045: {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"chips":[100,3],"time__":1309934571832}
table.handler {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"chips":[100,3],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075788"}
player.handler {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"chips":[100,3],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075788"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":72278,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":300,"time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"money":72278,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":300,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075789"}
player.handler {"money":72278,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":300,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075789"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,78,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,3],"time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"money":[1,78,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,3],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075790"}
player.handler {"money":[1,78,100,7,200,5,500,4,1000,4,2000,1,2500,3,5000,5,10000,3],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,3],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075790"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: goldbit pays 3 blind\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: goldbit pays 3 blind\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","uid__":"jpoker1309934075791"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":0,"time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075792"}
player.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075792"}
playerSelf.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":0,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075792"}
connection handle 11045: {"dead":0,"amount":600,"cookie":"","packet_id":264,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"dead":0,"amount":600,"cookie":"","packet_id":264,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","uid__":"jpoker1309934075793"}
player.handler {"dead":0,"amount":600,"cookie":"","packet_id":264,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","uid__":"jpoker1309934075793"}
playerSelf.handler {"dead":0,"amount":600,"cookie":"","packet_id":264,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerBlind","uid__":"jpoker1309934075793"}
connection handle 11045: {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"chips":[100,6],"time__":1309934571833}
table.handler {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"chips":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075794"}
player.handler {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"chips":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075794"}
playerSelf.handler {"type":"PacketPokerChipsPlayer2Bet","length":15,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"chips":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075794"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"time__":1309934571834}
table.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075795"}
player.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075795"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075795"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"time__":1309934571834}
table.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075796"}
player.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075796"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075796"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: burningring pays 6 blind\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","time__":1309934571834}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: burningring pays 6 blind\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","uid__":"jpoker1309934075797"}
connection handle 11045: {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[203,206],"packet_id":687,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","time__":1309934571834}
table.handler {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[203,206],"packet_id":687,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075798"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[203,206],"packet_id":687,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075798"}
playerSelf.handler {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[203,206],"packet_id":687,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075798"}
connection handle 11045: {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[255,255],"packet_id":688,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","time__":1309934571835}
table.handler {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[255,255],"packet_id":688,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075799"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"cards":[255,255],"packet_id":688,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075799"}
connection handle 11045: {"string":"pre-flop","cookie":"","game_id":11045,"packet_id":268,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerState","time__":1309934571835}
table.handler {"string":"pre-flop","cookie":"","game_id":11045,"packet_id":268,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerState","uid__":"jpoker1309934075800"}
connection handle 11045: {"serials":[10697,11006],"length":21,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"numberOfCards":2,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerDealCards","time__":1309934571835}
table.handler {"serials":[10697,11006],"length":21,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"numberOfCards":2,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerDealCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075801"}
connection handle 11045: {"cards":[203,206],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","time__":1309934571835}
table.handler {"cards":[203,206],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075802"}
player.handler {"cards":[203,206],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075802"}
playerSelf.handler {"cards":[203,206],"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075802"}
connection handle 11045: {"cards":[255,255],"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","time__":1309934571835}
table.handler {"cards":[255,255],"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075803"}
player.handler {"cards":[255,255],"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerPlayerCards","uid__":"jpoker1309934075803"}
connection handle 11045: {"min":1200,"max":46234,"pot":900,"length":35,"step":100,"cookie":"","allin":46234,"call":0,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerBetLimit","time__":1309934571836}
table.handler {"min":1200,"max":46234,"pot":900,"length":35,"step":100,"cookie":"","allin":46234,"call":0,"game_id":11045,"serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerBetLimit","uid__":"jpoker1309934075804"}
connection handle 11045: {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerBeginRound","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"time__":1309934571836}
table.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerBeginRound","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075805"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerBeginRound","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075805"}
playerSelf.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerBeginRound","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075805"}
player.handler {"cookie":"","length":11,"type":"PacketPokerBeginRound","serial":0,"game_id":11045,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075805"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"time__":1309934571836}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075806"}
player.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":11006,"type":"PacketPokerPosition","position":1,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075806"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: pre-flop, 2 players\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","time__":1309934571836}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"message":"Dealer: pre-flop, 2 players\u000a","cookie":"","serial":0,"type":"PacketPokerChat","uid__":"jpoker1309934075807"}
setState retrieving user info undefined
sendPacket PacketPokerLongPollReturn
sendPacket (direct){"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      94ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (next){"type":"PacketPokerGetUserInfo","serial":10697}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"} returned
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      95ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerGetUserInfo","serial":10697} returned [object Object]
queueIncoming {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","time__":1309934581179}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      557ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
connection handle 0: {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","time__":1309934581179}
server.handler {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","uid__":"jpoker1309934075808"}
table.handler {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","uid__":"jpoker1309934075808","game_id":"11045"}
player.handler {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","uid__":"jpoker1309934075808","game_id":"11045"}
playerSelf.handler {"rating":1000,"name":"burningring","money":{"X1":[71916,67783,216476]},"affiliate":0,"cookie":"","packet_id":691,"serial":10697,"password":"","type":"PacketPokerUserInfo","email":"snowtown@gmail.com","uid__":"jpoker1309934075808","game_id":"11045"}
setState running PacketPokerUserInfo
sendPacket PacketPokerLongPollReturn
sendPacket (direct){"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      94ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (next){"type":"PacketPokerRebuy","serial":10697,"game_id":11045,"amount":30000}
sendPacket PacketPokerLongPollReturn
sendPacket (direct){"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      124ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (next){"type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","serial":10697,"game_id":11045}
sendPacket PacketPokerLongPollReturn
sendPacket (direct){"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      313ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (next){"type":"PacketPokerSit","game_id":11045,"serial":10697}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"} returned
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      105ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"} returned
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerSit","game_id":11045,"serial":10697} returned [object Object]
queueIncoming {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":270,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerSit","time__":1309934581903}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      95ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":270,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerSit","time__":1309934581903}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":270,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerSit","uid__":"jpoker1309934075809"}
player.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":270,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerSit","uid__":"jpoker1309934075809"}
playerSelf.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":270,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerSit","uid__":"jpoker1309934075809"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPollReturn"} returned [object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
success {"type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","serial":10697,"game_id":11045} returned [object Object]
queueIncoming {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":695,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","time__":1309934582028}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      106ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
connection handle 11045: {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":695,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","time__":1309934582028}
table.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":695,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","uid__":"jpoker1309934075810"}
player.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":695,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","uid__":"jpoker1309934075810"}
playerSelf.handler {"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"packet_id":695,"cookie":"","type":"PacketPokerAutoBlindAnte","uid__":"jpoker1309934075810"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerRebuy","serial":10697,"game_id":11045,"amount":30000} returned [object Object],[object Object]
queueIncoming {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"time__":1309934582164}
queueIncoming {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"time__":1309934582166}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      96ms   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
connection handle 11045: {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"time__":1309934582164}
table.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075811"}
player.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075811"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":45634,"cookie":"","game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerPlayerChips","bet":600,"uid__":"jpoker1309934075811"}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
connection handle 11045: {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"time__":1309934582166}
table.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075812"}
player.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075812"}
playerSelf.handler {"money":[1,34,100,7,200,7,500,3,1000,5,2000,1,2500,4,5000,3,10000,1],"length":19,"game_id":11045,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerClientPlayerChips","bet":[100,6],"uid__":"jpoker1309934075812"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.1s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      3.99s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned [object Object]
queueIncoming {"when":1309934660,"cookie":"","timeout":28,"game_id":11045,"packet_id":697,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerTimeoutWarning","time__":1309934611929}
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.1s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
connection handle 11045: {"when":1309934660,"cookie":"","timeout":28,"game_id":11045,"packet_id":697,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerTimeoutWarning","time__":1309934611929}
table.handler {"when":1309934660,"cookie":"","timeout":28,"game_id":11045,"packet_id":697,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerTimeoutWarning","uid__":"jpoker1309934075813"}
player.handler {"when":1309934660,"cookie":"","timeout":28,"game_id":11045,"packet_id":697,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerTimeoutWarning","uid__":"jpoker1309934075813"}
playerSelf.handler {"when":1309934660,"cookie":"","timeout":28,"game_id":11045,"packet_id":697,"serial":10697,"type":"PacketPokerTimeoutWarning","uid__":"jpoker1309934075813"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
success {"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"} returned
POST https://betco.in/POKER_REST?auth=I8N7VS17C4L5P6V...UWL&uid=B1115ADCD84FCF21300D8837F01D25EE9F11E3DC
   
200 OK
      5.09s   
jquery....min.js (line 16)
sendPacket (queue){"type":"PacketPokerLongPoll"}
Post
Topic
Board Economics
Re: BTC.. where it lands no one knows!
by
tanerlorn
on 06/07/2011, 01:25:23 UTC
Reminds me of the great Nick Lowe song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3jiCi7aFZE