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Luke updated the Bitcoin wiki to show that BFL was shipping the Little Single, and that the Single 'SC' and Mini Rig 'SC' were "Any day now" on April 1st. https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Mining_hardware_comparison&oldid=36551
The edits were undone by gmaxwell on April 3rd, with the following comments:
So, the bet and its terms aside, Luke-Jr was misleading people with respect to the shipping status of BFL products.
The edits were undone by gmaxwell on April 3rd, with the following comments:
Quote
Luke using one remotely for development is not shipping
Quote
"Any day now" is misleading people, BFL has been "any day now" for a very long time. Besides, an order placed today won't ship until June according to BFL (and I assume thats June in BFL time, which means sometime in 2014)
So, the bet and its terms aside, Luke-Jr was misleading people with respect to the shipping status of BFL products.
Once again, I have no doubt that the IRS wrote up a real pretty bloviating inditement, they're good at that. It's about all they're good at. I'm not "polishing" his reputation, just observing what the good ol us.gov likes to do.
If anybody thinks that BFL is a fraud, don't order (or cancel your order and get a refund). Most people bringing it up don't actually believe it's a fraud, but just want to drag his name through the mud. OP included.
If anybody thinks that BFL is a fraud, don't order (or cancel your order and get a refund). Most people bringing it up don't actually believe it's a fraud, but just want to drag his name through the mud. OP included.
You may want to read this part again:
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Some of the money was paid out to victims in small-dollar checks that the co-schemers misrepresented to be lottery winnings. The rest of the money was paid out to the co-schemers and others for their own use. VLEISIDES and the other defendants did not buy any lottery tickets, and the vast majority of the victims lost the money they sent. The total loss from the scheme is in excess of $19 million.
Or you need to talk to more line cooks and waiters. I live near nyc and have eaten in dive joints to 4 star michelin rated rests. Not saying its everywhere, but its a COMMON saying, so im not far off from the truth.
A Michelin 4 star restaurant, much like many of the BFL products, just doesn't exist.
Whoa... I see where the communication breakdown is. You think Bitcointalk is still relevant to mining hardware. Heh. How... quaint. I see where you get your nick, now.
From the Advertise on this forum - Round 80
7 @ 3.25
Why spend 22.75 BTC advertising on a forum that isn't relevant to mining hardware?
- What is the difference between a status of "Untouched" and "Open"? After placing a new order sometimes they would be "Open" status, and sometimes "Untouched".
- Twice I was unable to cancel my orders. I clicked the "X" on the Orders screen but received an Unknown Order message. References OHXHYC-7RUCJ-FJ4ILE and OWOO7Y-O5DXH-I6TOYF.
- The "Last Updated:" time at the bottom pane would occasionally default to "4 hours ago".
- You may want to place some limits on the order entry size in BTC. If the value is too large it overflows your internal storage, which appears to have a max of 92,233,720,368.54775807. Similarly, USD prices with more than 5 decimal places should not be allowed. This seems to result in an "Insufficient funds" error message at the moment when entering in very small USD prices, even if the order total is less than my balance.
- Twice I was unable to cancel my orders. I clicked the "X" on the Orders screen but received an Unknown Order message. References OHXHYC-7RUCJ-FJ4ILE and OWOO7Y-O5DXH-I6TOYF.
- The "Last Updated:" time at the bottom pane would occasionally default to "4 hours ago".
- You may want to place some limits on the order entry size in BTC. If the value is too large it overflows your internal storage, which appears to have a max of 92,233,720,368.54775807. Similarly, USD prices with more than 5 decimal places should not be allowed. This seems to result in an "Insufficient funds" error message at the moment when entering in very small USD prices, even if the order total is less than my balance.
No, it's the Wegman's strategy.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-19/strategy/30174700_1_wegmans-supermarket-customers
They buy up real estate, build one of their awesome stores, and make money leasing the surrounding real estate. They add value to something, so it just makes logical sense to purchase it at the previous low value and sell at the high value. It's been incredibly successful for them. ASIC do the same thing for bitcoin.
Pump & Dump implies adding no real value, but simply hype. That is not what is going on here.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-19/strategy/30174700_1_wegmans-supermarket-customers
They buy up real estate, build one of their awesome stores, and make money leasing the surrounding real estate. They add value to something, so it just makes logical sense to purchase it at the previous low value and sell at the high value. It's been incredibly successful for them. ASIC do the same thing for bitcoin.
Pump & Dump implies adding no real value, but simply hype. That is not what is going on here.
Actually, hype is exactly what is going on here. BFL has not yet delivered any devices.
Also, please explain how a company delivering ASIC devices will cause the value of bitcoins to increase.
What you are describing sounds remarkably similar to a pump and dump scheme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump).
Does anyone know what size the DC plug is for the CM1? Is it 2.5 or 2.1mm?
2.5mm.
Per there documentation, there are the following power connectors:
Quote
There is a choice of:
1. 2.5mm 5A Jack socket.
2. Disk drive connector 6.5A (Molex Part No. 0015244441)
3. Graphics card power connector (Molex 45732-0001)
4. 6-way Phoenix connector (Phoenix Contact 1757284). Mating connector is Phoenix MSTB
2,5/6-ST-5,08 Part number 1948750).
1. 2.5mm 5A Jack socket.
2. Disk drive connector 6.5A (Molex Part No. 0015244441)
3. Graphics card power connector (Molex 45732-0001)
4. 6-way Phoenix connector (Phoenix Contact 1757284). Mating connector is Phoenix MSTB
2,5/6-ST-5,08 Part number 1948750).
If you have requested a refund for a pre-order and have not received a timely response, please consider filing a complaint with the FTC:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
I found this letter interesting. BF Labs registration report to the State of Missouri is past due, and they will lose their ability legally to conduct business in the state if it is not filed by May 4th, 2013. It's the second document on this page:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Filings.asp?3402461
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
I found this letter interesting. BF Labs registration report to the State of Missouri is past due, and they will lose their ability legally to conduct business in the state if it is not filed by May 4th, 2013. It's the second document on this page:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/BusinessEntity/soskb/Filings.asp?3402461
You can sell your BFL pre-order on eBay and make a tidy profit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/60-GH-s-Bitcoin-Miner-BitForce-Single-SC-ASIC-Butterfly-Labs-Get-in-NOW-/261195953343?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3cd07df4bf -- 24 bidders and over $3K right now.
And I think this is exactly what BFL intended. Why ask for a refund when you can sell your "more valuable" pre-order to the greater fool?
Let's assume worst case scenario BFL takes our money and runs. Is there any chance we can get our money back in that situation? Through any intermediary?
If things go wrong, BFL will declare bankruptcy. Then the remaining assets will be distributed to creditors by a trustee, if there are any assets remaining. Your chance of recovering your full "pre-order" in this event is extremely unlikely.
There is a reason that the FTC Consumer Protection division has "prompt delivery" rules. Know your rights. If the delay is longer than 30 days or indefinite, you are to be promptly refunded unless you have agreed that the delay is acceptable.
If you are having issues obtaining a refund from BFL, you may file a complaint with the FTC here:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en
For the record, these Wiki edits were done to back out the changes Luke-Jr made:
Quote
(cur | prev) 05:32, 3 April 2013 Gmaxwell (Talk | contribs) . . (144,662 bytes) (-1) . . (Luke using one remotely for development is not shipping.)
(cur | prev) 05:31, 3 April 2013 Gmaxwell (Talk | contribs) . . (144,663 bytes) (-36) . . ("Any day now" is misleading people, BFL has been "any day now" for a very long time. Besides, an order placed today won't ship until June according to BFL (and I assume thats June in BFL time, which means sometime in 2014))
(cur | prev) 05:31, 3 April 2013 Gmaxwell (Talk | contribs) . . (144,663 bytes) (-36) . . ("Any day now" is misleading people, BFL has been "any day now" for a very long time. Besides, an order placed today won't ship until June according to BFL (and I assume thats June in BFL time, which means sometime in 2014))
Yeah, boycott me because I got a device I paid for. Makes so much sense.
You have repeatedly made statements, perhaps unintentionally, that are misleading. Such as implying (and updating the Wiki) that BFL is shipping ASIC based devices, when their own website lists them as not shipping until the end of April. No individual unaffiliated with BFL has received a device, and as you are compensated by BFL you are hardly impartial.
Can you provide a dated invoice for your order, or other proof of payment?
Companies do crazy things to claim to "ship" products.
A long time ago, Miniscribe, a Colorado hard drive manufacturer, shipped bricks (yes, bricks) as hard drives:
Unsurprisingly, they went bankrupt.
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/102/102.F3d.1043.94-1592.95-1022.html
A long time ago, Miniscribe, a Colorado hard drive manufacturer, shipped bricks (yes, bricks) as hard drives:
Quote
In mid-December 1987, Miniscribe's management, with Wiles' approval and Schleibaum's assistance, engaged in an extensive cover-up which included recording the shipment of bricks as in-transit inventory. To implement the plan, Miniscribe employees first rented an empty warehouse in Boulder, Colorado, and procured ten, forty-eight foot exclusive-use trailers. They then purchased 26,000 bricks from the Colorado Brick Company.
On Saturday, December 18, 1987, Schleibaum, Taranta, Huff, Lorea and others gathered at the warehouse. Wiles did not attend. From early morning to late afternoon, those present loaded the bricks onto pallets, shrink wrapped the pallets, and boxed them. The weight of each brick pallet approximated the weight of a pallet of disk drives. The brick pallets then were loaded onto the trailers and taken to a farm in Larimer County, Colorado.
On Saturday, December 18, 1987, Schleibaum, Taranta, Huff, Lorea and others gathered at the warehouse. Wiles did not attend. From early morning to late afternoon, those present loaded the bricks onto pallets, shrink wrapped the pallets, and boxed them. The weight of each brick pallet approximated the weight of a pallet of disk drives. The brick pallets then were loaded onto the trailers and taken to a farm in Larimer County, Colorado.
Unsurprisingly, they went bankrupt.
https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/102/102.F3d.1043.94-1592.95-1022.html
Re: Can some one Clear up if a single BFL asic has been shiped or seen working
I don't believe there has been credible proof that BFL has a working ASIC device. You would need someone independent (i.e. not a BFL employee, contractor, developer, etc.) to receive, inspect, and test the device.
I also find it highly unlikely that BFL is solvent, and probably poses an imminent bankruptcy risk. Their predominant source of revenue is from taking preorders for devices that do not, and may never exist. However, they continue to incur significant expenses: staff costs, advertising, travel, ASIC development, board development (and, apparently, re-development), etc. Their liabilities to customers most likely exceed the cash they have on hand. Furthermore, it is possible that when/if they do develop a device, that it will cost them more to produce than their current sales price.
I also find it highly unlikely that BFL is solvent, and probably poses an imminent bankruptcy risk. Their predominant source of revenue is from taking preorders for devices that do not, and may never exist. However, they continue to incur significant expenses: staff costs, advertising, travel, ASIC development, board development (and, apparently, re-development), etc. Their liabilities to customers most likely exceed the cash they have on hand. Furthermore, it is possible that when/if they do develop a device, that it will cost them more to produce than their current sales price.
+2
Sharp newbie is sharp.
Thank you. Somewhat remarkably, after posting that, they reduced their specs and raised their prices. Hmm.
Re: Can some one Clear up if a single BFL asic has been shiped or seen working
I don't believe there has been credible proof that BFL has a working ASIC device. You would need someone independent (i.e. not a BFL employee, contractor, developer, etc.) to receive, inspect, and test the device.
I also find it highly unlikely that BFL is solvent, and probably poses an imminent bankruptcy risk. Their predominant source of revenue is from taking preorders for devices that do not, and may never exist. However, they continue to incur significant expenses: staff costs, advertising, travel, ASIC development, board development (and, apparently, re-development), etc. Their liabilities to customers most likely exceed the cash they have on hand. Furthermore, it is possible that when/if they do develop a device, that it will cost them more to produce than their current sales price.
I also find it highly unlikely that BFL is solvent, and probably poses an imminent bankruptcy risk. Their predominant source of revenue is from taking preorders for devices that do not, and may never exist. However, they continue to incur significant expenses: staff costs, advertising, travel, ASIC development, board development (and, apparently, re-development), etc. Their liabilities to customers most likely exceed the cash they have on hand. Furthermore, it is possible that when/if they do develop a device, that it will cost them more to produce than their current sales price.
Won the bitbet bet for those who bet on that,
sorry for those who bet on bestofbitcoin
sorry for those who bet on bestofbitcoin
Am I reading this correctly? Two different sites with the same bet, but one awards and the other declares a draw?
Although... I'd have expected a competent judge to contact me and ask my opinion on whether the device is capable of the 27 Gh/s required, in case my current results were the result of software issues. But it's immaterial, since as best as I can tell so far, I'm getting the most performance out of it that it can handle.
As devices were not delivered to customers, the hash rate is moot.