Quote from: AnonyFox on March 11, 2014, 03:04:05 AM

Quote from: Msile on March 10, 2014, 07:45:10 PM

Damn I sold most of my coins far too low.

What I learned: Always make a sell order for a potential pump.

Do us all a favor and go.

Quote from: TorVek on March 10, 2014, 07:53:59 PM

If I'm reading the order book at Poloniex right, it would take only 4.76 BTC in a buy to push the price up over 0.0082 mBTC, which would put FoxCoin into the top 100 and on the front page... and at current BTC prices, that's just less that $3,000 worth.

So this looks like it could be pushed into taking off surprisingly fast.

I would prefer real progress, not price hype.

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I'd like to point out that FoxCoin was not designed for profit and we do not support profitdiggers, pump and dumpers, etc. While there is ~~very little~~ effectively nothing we can do to stop the practice we directly oppose anybody digging FoxCoin just for profit.

The goal of FoxCoin is to innovate and be used for various applications we dislike anybody that wishes to stifle our progress to the goal.

I think the goal of having FoxCoin be an innovative alternative currency with multiple uses (i.e. widely accepted) is one that I very strongly support. The question is how do we get to that point? Personally, I don't think it helps the potential future of the coin to act as if the word "profit" is somehow a dirty word... and demonization of profit is (IMO) far more likely to strangle FoxCoin in its crib than it is to help it grow.

I realize that FoxCoin is designed specifically to combat the flash-in-the-pan syndrome that seems to afflict so many of the newer altcoins, and I think that's a good thing. I'd like to see FoxCoin continuing on long after the majority of the currently-listed altcoins on CoinMarketCap have faded into oblivion. So I agree that a tulip-bulb mania style bubble inflating and popping isn't in the long-term interest of the FoxCoin community. I don't want that at all.

That being said, you've got a chicken-and-egg problem here that is made much worse by taking a position that anyone interested in profit is rather unwelcome and will be "actively opposed".

Here's how I see it: For FoxCoin to have a long future, it needs a solid base of people devoting their resources to mining it, rather than to mining any of the other 150+ altcoins that are out there. It also needs to have an established base of people who are interested in having the coin itself in their possession. How does FoxCoin get to that point?

There's been quite an effort to get the coin listed on various exchanges... why? You've just slammed someone in your community over selling the coin early and wanting to learn from that experience by positioning themselves better in the future to help minimize regret. I don't know of anyone who is interested in trading altcoins with a goal of of being unprofitable, yet you seem to be treating the notion of trying to come out on the positive side of trading as some kind of badge of shame.

Why seek to get the coin listed on exchanges if you don't want anyone to exchange the coin? Every time someone sells a FoxCoin, someone else is buying a FoxCoin. I would think that should be seen as a good thing, as it shows a spreading interest in the future of the coin itself.

When a coin is in the early stages, as FoxCoin is, with a wide variety of other coins competing for mining resources, it seems to me that the number-one thing that the coin needs is to attract attention and interest... miners will generally need a good reason to specifically mine FoxCoin as opposed to other coins. If you take the position that no one who would rather have FoxCoin be worth more (i.e. interested in "profit") is welcome in your community, it seems like you're making an active effort to drive miners AWAY rather than attract them.

For a coin to be attractive to mine, there seem to be two primary drivers: I can spend these mined coins today on services or goods in such a way that my net cost is lower than using fiat currency (which is another way of saying that mining the coins is a net profitable transaction because it lowers my costs), or I can hold the coins until later, in the hopes that the value will grow over time and then I can spend them, again creating a scenario where the action is in my best interest precisely because it represents a net profit. Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand" is not evil, but an enlightened self-interest in profit is crucial to understanding why it works.

For someone to spend their FoxCoins on goods or services, merchants have to be interested in accepting it. Is the merchant unwelcome if they expect that accepting the coin will lead them to a net profit? Is a potential customer of that merchant unwelcome to mine FoxCoin if they think doing so allows them to make a more profitable transaction?

I don't see much hope for attracting merchants with an attitude like that, or attracting interest in mining the coin, either.

I've pointed out before that I think the key to making FoxCoin successful is establishing the USPs that will make people want to mine it (and hopefully, to keep mining it). I'd like to help in that regard, but I'm disinclined to do so if you're interested in trying to treat me as an enemy. I'm not.

I'm a wee little miner in the grand scheme. My total mining power hasn't increased in ages, and I'm under 300kh today. I've never bought a crypto-currency, nor have I even traded one crypto-currency for another one. I've never bought dedicated hardware for the purpose of mining either, I've always mined on existing hardware I already had.

I have mined and spent coins, but doing so costs me money in direct electricity costs, and marginally for cooling in the summer from running an extra PC that otherwise would not need to be on. It would be irrational of me to do so if it represented a net financial loss to me... that's just a waste. I mine because I get a positive marginal utility from it, or in other words, because it is a net profitable transaction to do so.

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The goal of FoxCoin is to innovate and be used for various applications we dislike anybody that wishes to stifle our progress to the goal.

I would submit that if you think anyone who is interested in profit is "stifling your progress to the goal", then the real person who is stifling progress is probably you. I think you can ill-afford to alienate almost everyone else who is involved in crypto-currencies or even involved in any form of capitalism itself, and whether they know it or not, all of those folks are interested in profit.

If you want to be innovative, and add distinctiveness to the coin, I encourage you to do so without reservation. No one else but you seems to be stopping you. Develop the features and implement them.

I have quite a few ideas for suggestions, innovations and features which (I believe) could help FoxCoin become a true long term stand-out in the world of altcoins... but I am quite unwilling to help out if my expected reward for doing so is to have you or others metaphorically spit in my face for having the sheer gall of wanting to end up profiting from my contributions.

In the end, it's up to you, AnonyFox. Perhaps you should re-examine your premises and determine what is truly most important to you in this endeavor, and what serves to further that goal.

TorVek

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