Quote from: DaRude on November 11, 2024, 10:26:10 PM

Quote from: cpu6502 on November 11, 2024, 06:52:25 PM

Quote from: DaRude on November 11, 2024, 04:52:24 PM

Quote from: cpu6502 on November 11, 2024, 02:36:21 PM

Trump will want Ukraine and Russia to be quickly done and dusted so he can move onto other election promises. But I think he's wading into a conflict he has little understanding of.

I mean what will Trump do if Ukraine and Russia both reject the "peace" deal?
Ukraine won't be happy with battle lines frozen because they want back what was stolen.
Russia won't be happy with battle lines frozen because they want all of Ukraine and the current government removed.

What will Trump do then do you think? I really don't know.

I guess stopping the war is kinda easy sort of.
But keeping it stopped is a totally different beast altogether; that's the hard part.

Trump sees China as its biggest risk. As such his priority would be to drive Russia as far away from China as possible.

You're still thinking of this as if Ukraine has any choice in any of this. Wars are expensive, and stopping one is easy. No money = no war. Look up what happened last time Ukrainian aid package made it through US congress. They're trying to rush the remainder of that aid out to Ukraine now, but there's only enough for Ukraine to last few more months after that...? Now consider that republicans got both chambers, and the position of speaker of the house, VP's and president on Ukraine. And now ask yourself if the next aid package will be approved, if so how long will Ukraine have to wait this time without aid, and will it be less same or more than the last one (we all see how much progress Ukraine was able to achieve with the current rate of aid).

This didn't address my question.

What you suggest is a way to get Ukraine to the negotiating table. That makes sense.
Trump could threaten to increase aid to Ukraine to get Russia to the table. That makes sense too.

But what happens if they can't agree? That's my question.
If Trump reduces aid to Ukraine, it emboldens China (and others), increasing the risk to US from China. The very thing you said his priority was to avoid.
If Trump increases aid to Ukraine, according to this forum thread, that will drag out the war. Trumps breaks an election promise of a quick resolve.
If Trump does nothing it's an election promise broken and China emboldened.

You see it easy to come up with simple answers to complicated problems when you're a presidential candidate with no responsibility. But Trump won, and when he takes office it will be his responsibility; simple answers to complicated problems are then not useful.

In wars no one cares about what you want it's what you can get.

Support for sending money to Ukraine is eroding, it's uneven and much lower with republicans than democrats. Discussing what if Trump decides to ignore his party, break his promise and send even more money to the person he blames for starting war and called the greatest salesman on Earth" for having solicited and received billions of dollars of U.S. military aid, is like discussing what if Martians show up and start helping Ukraine. Let's keep the discussion to what is plausible.

Money is running out for Ukraine and everyone at the negotiation table knows it, and all outcomes must be based on this. In politics there's not always a good option available. Most of the time you have to compromise between bad and worse, and on top of that the bad/worse positions often flip between short and long terms.

Also, Ukraine has issues with manpower, North Koreans is sending some troops to Russia, even if Trump could send more money to Ukraine what do you think it would achieve?

So no, Trump will not increase aid to Ukraine and EU cannot compensate that. Zelenskiy would step down, get a cozy spot in US, and let his team negotiate the terms. In a hypothetical where he just goes mad and refuses to accept reality, his generals would find a way to force him one way or the other (as history shows).

You picked the "If Trump reduces aid to Ukraine, it emboldens China (and others), increasing the risk to US from China. The very thing you said his priority was to avoid." option (I think). That's okay, just asking peoples opinion that's all.
Myself, I don't know the answer.

cpu6502

Posts

Merits