Quote from: n0nce on Today at 11:46:06 AM

Quote from: foggoat on Today at 11:38:29 AM

Quote from: n0nce on Today at 11:33:32 AM

That's actually even worse! If you lose 1 part, the whole thing's gone. Never do that!

Have you even taken a minute to think about it or just straight assumed it's wrong? The thing is it's a 2 out of 3 scheme, you need to lose 2 parts out of 3 to lose your seed phrase.

Sorry; misread. I thought you'd recommend splitting 1-8, 9-16, 17-24.

No problem, that would be dumb. No one should straight split their seed, I agree.

Quote from: n0nce on Today at 11:46:06 AM

Quote from: gmaxwell on September 05, 2017, 07:24:13 AM

Anyone considering secret sharing should first have a darn good reason they aren't using multisig.

As gmaxwell said, though, I don't understand why. There are so many good guides for setting up Multisig with basically any software and hardware wallet and combination of them.
A nice side effect is that you can deposit dummy amounts on each individual seed to deter any thief / finder to go looking for a second seed.

And also.. it just works, it's integrated into wallets and it's a popular scheme, so if someone has a problem with setup or restore, they'll find help online without a problem.
I can almost guarantee that they would find less users who know about this '1-16, 9-24, 1-8 + 17-24' scheme and who will be able to assist.

The multisig is a solid approach, I cannot argue with that. Multisig is still more complicated than the simple approach I suggested. The scheme I suggested can be explained in a few sentences and solid, durable backups are easy to make. However, multisig needs a detailed tutorial and compatible wallets. It might be difficult to remember it all after a few years or if your family member would ever need to access your coins.

Most importantly, the discussion started from just simply keeping the extra backups of your seed phrase, not making it totally hackerproof or other things if I recall correctly.

Quote from: n0nce on September 09, 2022, 11:10:37 PM

Though if just your own house burns down (not a huge apocalyptic sized fire), you should have redundant seed phrase backups elsewhere.

If you were to keep just 3 straight backups of your seed phrase in separate locations, you will be better off using the scheme I suggested. In the thing, I suggested If someone found one of your backups you will be safe from hacking for quite some time (at least a few months if not years), it will require some proper knowledge and resources (incl. time) to crack it. Furthermore, I haven't mentioned this idea as any sort of alternative to a multisig, as it's a whole different beast altogether, and I don't really follow why we are discussing it that way.

Quote from: n0nce on Today at 11:46:06 AM

And also.. it just works, it's integrated into wallets and it's a popular scheme, so if someone has a problem with setup or restore, they'll find help online without a problem.
I can almost guarantee that they would find less users who know about this '1-16, 9-24, 1-8 + 17-24' scheme and who will be able to assist.

Probably, true. However, the approach I suggested is quite simple so probably no true need for a lot of explainers. As mentioned earlier multisig is still a more complicated thing.

Quote from: n0nce on Today at 11:46:06 AM

I haven't calculated it with 24 words, but it appears that if someone found 2/3 of the words of a 12-word seed phrase (8 words), it's possible to crack the remaining 4 words rather quickly.
https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/101336/119879

Basically, in your scheme, each share holds 2/3 of the original seed's key material.

Honestly, I haven't thought that someone might still make a wallet with 12 words nowadays, it's not a good practice. I mentioned 24th words seed in my example.
Cracking 4 words of BIP39 seed is hardly comparable to cracking 8 words. To crack 4 words you need around 2^40 combinations, for 8 words it's around 2^80, it's a completely different thing. ^{(not really precise math here though)} You will have 7 words to crack on one of the backups as the last word is a checksum, but it's not that much difference.
It will take quite a lot of knowledge and computing power +money to crack 8 words and it still will take months if not years. Also they will need to get one of your backups in their hands first.

And as we were discussing just a mere alternative for keeping your multiple backups straight in different locations, I think that's quite good for something that is so easy to do.
Even for 12th words (which is not ideal) it still beats keeping multiple backups straight and fully, as it requires proper knowledge to crack even 3 or 4 words. A bit harder to do than just putting the words into a wallet.

I am not arguing that one is better than the other, though. I'm not pushing anyone to use that scheme. Different things for different folks. Never meant it as an alternative to multisig. Just replying to your arguments.

It is a simple no-tech idea meant as a way for keeping multiple seed backups in separate physical locations, where you are not able to keep an eye on all of them for 24/7.
This is quite a digression from the main topic and maybe it would be best to not make this the center of this thread and avoid jumping into this rabbit hole.

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