Quote from: n0nce on October 15, 2022, 11:22:29 AM

Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 15, 2022, 04:01:31 AM

I understand your point.

How many crypto users have an offline pc just to work with the seed?

I don't think very many, but there are definitely a lot of hardware wallet users who can securely display their seed words directly on the device's screen and copy it to paper by hand. I wouldn't want them exposing their securely created and stored seeds to an online operating system with internet access and persistency, as it defeats the purpose of them purchasing the hardware wallet.

Furthermore, I do think there needs to be more education and anyone with multiple Bitcoin should get themselves an offline PC just for working with seeds. Besides the fact that this doesn't need to be a separate device from what you already own. In case you're not familiar: https://tails.boum.org/ This boots off USB and lives in RAM, with Electrum preinstalled and no network.

Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 15, 2022, 04:01:31 AM

Remember the guy from UK that lost his hard drive with thousand of Bitcoins and is try to find it on the public trash of the city?

Exactly: he had the keys on his hard drive. I'm saying people should do their backups on multiple instances of laminated paper or steel washers instead of relying on electronics.
Cheap backup mechanisms that allow you to have redundancy at any budget. Buying 10 'cryptoplatz' devices is not an option for most.

Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 15, 2022, 04:01:31 AM

We need to create options to the users keep their Bitcoin safe, keep seed recovery phrase in small piece of paper, without encryptation is not a good option.

Why is paper not a good option? Encryption just makes it more difficult to recover funds. If my heirs find my cleartext paper and steel seeds, they can restore them. If they find an encrypted plastic card, they could mistake it for an old credit card and throw it out.
Not to mention that you can also encrypt a paper seed before writing it down. And hardware wallets like BitBox and Passport already create electronic, encrypted backups on microSD card, as well. In case you don't have a physically secure location for paper backups..

Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 15, 2022, 04:01:31 AM

Trust wallet app has more than 10 millions of download, this people already have exposed his seed on smartphone, a lot of then don’t save seed on paper, for laziness to write on a paper.

If they already exposed it, I already said, there is little additional risk entering it into one more application. However, do you think that someone who doesn't even bother writing the seed on paper, will go and buy a dedicated seed backup device?
In my opinion, the money is better spent just buying a hardware wallet instead, transferring funds over and backing up on steel for 5 bucks.

Quote from: n0nce on October 02, 2021, 01:50:26 PM

n0nce's Steel Washer Backup jig

https://i.postimg.cc/QMNkXyjh/n0nce-stamps-0.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/bJyt0DZP/n0nce-stamps-1.jpg
Very nicely readable 6mm letters (tape holds washer in place) | Prototypes & final version. Improved letter spacing & tolerances.

https://i.postimg.cc/8JGddw9V/n0nce-stamp.gif
This is pretty much how it works

Backup pure material cost: 4€
Requirements: stamps ~20€, jig ~10€
Go big or go home! 30x10.5mm washers!
6mm tall letters
Edit: Any size of washer and stamp is now possible using the openSCAD file I provide for free below. Enjoy!

[...]

Quote from: cryptoplatz on October 15, 2022, 04:01:31 AM

Some people will prefer an offline computer, others will prefer ledger and trezor (both already hacked), others will prefer app wallets like BitPay, Trust Wallet, Exodus. So CryptoPlatz Vault is not for all users, it is for someone that want to looking for a easy way to store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device to keep it safe.

It's true that there are different products for different people, I still just don't see the target user for cryptoplatz.
Your title says: 'help us! ' and that's what I'm trying to do.

So you're saying the target user is someone 'looking for a easy way to store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device to keep it safe'.
Let's assume 2 users, for sake of simplicity, this should cover 99% of Bitcoin users.
Software wallet user
(1) Why does this user need to 'store their seed recovery phrase encrypted and offline in a strong device' if it's already living in an online, insecure device? First of all, the amounts are (should be) pretty small that you hold in a software wallet. Secondly, they can apply encryption to their seed and store it on paper / steel or simply buy a strong personal safe and put the backup inside there.
(2) If they can't be bothered spending money on a hardware wallet, why would they spend money on their backup?

Hardware wallet user
(1) The better hardware wallets already create encrypted, electronic backups for you on SD cards, such as Passport, BitBox and ColdCard.
(2) Why would they move their seed off their already 'offline, strong device' (hardware wallet) into an application, to save it to another 'offline, strong device'? It is a huge security risk and totally unnecessary as they already have a secure mechanism to do all they need.

In summary, people willing (or 'required' due to larger BTC holdings) to spend money on their Bitcoin storage, should (or already do) buy a hardware wallet with built-in encrypted electronic backup mechanism instead. People who don't want or can spend money on a hardware wallet, won't buy this product either. Sure, it's a bit cheaper, but they'll be better off saving up for one more month and getting a proper hardware wallet.

Finally, I just don't like the idea of getting people accustomed to entering their seed phrases here and there. The seed phrase should only be entered into Electrum or similar trusted software (preferably on a live-booted Tails OS) when restoring a wallet. You can also do this on some hardware wallets.
Normalizing phone and desktop apps that ask for your seed phrase for anything else, just increases the likeliness of people to enter it elsewhere.

I understand your point and I will try to explain:

You say people don't need to buy CryptoPlatz Vault because already exist hard wallet. Let me be very clear, CryptoPlatz Vault it is not to substitute cold wallets or hot wallet, this is the first point ok? CryptoPlatz Vault it is to substitute:

1) The paper where people write the seed phrase (recovery phrase) - paper is fragile (water, fire, bugs...)
2) Metal plates is not encrypted, so if somebody put the hands on your metal plate, you lost your crypto. CryptoPlatz Vault allow you to save your seed recovery phrase encrypted with AES-256 (password changed to a hash with MD5 first)

Another point is, you say people must use Electrum with live OS. For advanced user ok, but Bitcoin now is used for a lot of people. You must incentive than to keep the Bitcoin with their, not with exchanges. But to do this, they need to have easy and safe ways to use cryptocurrency.

I know a lot of people that have cryptocurrency, and do not know how to use Ledger, they think is very complicated Shocked

I know people, that have more than 20 seed recovery phrase, imagine how to handle this with metal plates or paper?

A lot of Bitcoins is lost for years, because people formatted the HD with seed or the paper with the seed get fired for example.

For now we already have an iOS and Android version running. Soon we will launch version for MAC, Windows and Linux. So you can use CryptoPlatz software on Linux, offline, to store the seed encrypted.

Again, maybe you have only one seed recovery phrase and I understand you are advanced user, but this is not the common.

If people don't have a easy way to keep the seed recovery phrase protected. They will leave on a text file on Windows.

A lot of people now is using MetaMask, they need to save the seed recovery phrase offline, encrypted. They need CryptoPlatz Vault.

I hope you understand my point of view.

cryptoplatz

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