Quote from: u9y42 on August 09, 2014, 01:51:18 PM

Quote from: Ibian on August 09, 2014, 01:38:47 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 09, 2014, 01:25:36 PM

Our brains don't predispose us to live in a society that has a state - I'd argue that is very much a cultural issue, and a relatively recent one in our history, if you look closely. Besides, the example of Catalonia has been brought up a few times: after decades of anarchical experiments, the population there went on to create a stateless society for a couple of years.

Catalonia is not a world power.

Fact is that the bigger the society the bigger things we can create - such as indoor plumping and hot water, for example. Electricity too I guess. Now it might just be me, but I feel pretty predisposed to have a clean dwelling with useful amenities.

The problem is not the fact that we have a state, but the power and abilities we give it and the culture as a whole. The problem is that we are dying. We have created an ideology that encourages women to study and work during their most fertile years and to postpone having kids until they are older. As a result, we have less kids. More people are dying than are being born and it has been that way since around the 80s.

A welfare state that depends on taking money from those who work and giving it to those who do not requires a constant influx of young taxpayers, and we do not have it. Every western culture will collapse as a result of this. That's the problem we need to find a solution to, and there are only two ways. Either we need to have more kids, or we need to dismantle the welfare system. There are no other ways out at this point.

Sorry to bring it back to it, but Catalonia was able to maintain their infrastructure and build upon it - the idea that you need a central authority to perform the tasks you mention doesn't make sense. And yes, the fertility rate does seem to decline the more well developed the society, but I don't see it as exclusively translating to a choice between abolishing welfare or having more kids; why not moving towards some real form of socialism, and not just stopgap measures?

Catalonia had the Pujol mafia steling on their shit for years, while they talked about morals, ethics, hard work cried about Spain stealing on their resources. Just lol.

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