Quote from: BADecker on September 02, 2015, 07:46:29 PM

Quote from: 1aguar on September 02, 2015, 07:18:23 PM

Quote from: BADecker on September 02, 2015, 07:05:33 PM

Since we are talking about salvation, there is no other way to be saved other than through Jesus and the sacrifice He made. That's why to bring the Bible into it.

That teaching of "salvation through Jesus" is the doctrine of Paul, the one who invented the word "Jesus"; it is not the teaching of the rest of the Bible and it is not Emmanuel's teaching; you do not need to assume that "Jesus" is a savior who died for your sins in order to understand the four Gospels.

Quote from: BADecker on September 02, 2015, 07:05:33 PM

You are way mistaken about Paul. His writings give credit to Jesus. He was never against Jesus or God.

Ah, but Paul was a persecutor of Christians and a Pharisee, and he never even met Emmanuel; he was not an apostle. So he would not be the best source to go to for the teachings of Emmanuel. The early Christians relied on the apostles who knew Emmanuel, and they did not hold any ideas about a "savior" or salvation through faith. Emmanuel did not claim to be the Son of God, he said "they say as much" at his trial. The passages in the Gospels can be interpreted as discussing the Christ way of goodness, not the personality and being of Emmanuel, who was a man.

Further, Paul alleges that a savior is necessary to be blessed by God, and that denies what is written in Psalm 1; see below.

Quote from: BADecker on September 02, 2015, 07:05:33 PM

Psalm 1 expresses what it expresses. It is not the only thing that the Bible expresses.

Psalm 1 expresses that to be blessed by God, it is sufficient to meditate upon God's Law day and night. No wonder then, that the early Christians had no problem with the Jewish teachings and did not need to introduce a "New Law" or a "Jesus" or a "savior" because they KNEW that it was sufficient to meditate upon God's Law, exactly as expressed.

"Jesus" means he who saves" or "savior." Paul didn't have to invent the word. He may have been among the first to apply it to the Messiah, Jesus.

You are mistaken about the early church beliefs in the Promised One, and His fulfillment in Jesus.

The person who meditates on God's Law recognizes the blessings from obeying it as well as the curses from not obeying it.

Is it a lot of fun playing ignorant?

How does debating a work of fiction be scientific?

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