Quote from: rpietila on January 14, 2015, 04:58:58 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on January 14, 2015, 04:14:02 AM

* Finally, it is not clear to me that the world really needs a payment system like bitcoin. Its expected virtues, of liberating people from oppressive regimes and from excessive bank fees, have yet to be demonstrated (or have already been debunked).

The world is composed of 7+ billion people currently. Of these, ~100,000 people at present currently do need bitcoin, and its value is supported by this group. [ ... ] Every day, there is more freedom from oppressive governments because of Bitcoin.

Really? Could you please explain how those 100'000 people get more "freedom from oppresive governments" by using bitcoin? Is "freedom" just evading taxes, or buying illegal drugs, weapons, child porn -- or is there something else?

Claim: in its 6 years of existence, bitcoin has caused 1000x more damage than benefits to the world.

The number may be exaggerated, but can you dispute it? If you add MtGOX and all the other bitcoin scams and thefts, add the use of bitcoin in financing crime, all the people who had their life ruined for believing in the fantastic price predictions or gambling in online casinos -- you will get easily a billion dollars of damages inflicted on mankind. Even if you subtract the cases of thieves stealing from other thieves, crooks scamming other crooks, and scumbags profiting at the expense of other scumbags, you are still left witha balance of hundreds of millions transferred from those who worked for that money to those who did nothing to deserve it, by the force of misleading claims and impossible promises.

And what good has bitcoin brought to mankind? Savings of a few % in the purchases of trinkets from Newegg and Overstock?

Bitcoin is mostly a Chinese thing now: they make the most ASICs, they have the most miners, their exchanges have most of the volume. But hwat has bitcoin done for human rights in China? Or in any part of the world?

Perhaps bitcoin will one day make good on its promise to bring freedom and productivity. But so far its score is not good at all.

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You don't see it because your government is your all-inclusive udder. But look at the people from whom the money to feed you is coming. They need it. Oh please, Jorge, don't shut it down! Grin

It is precisely the "people who feed me" that are most in danger of losing money to this "industry". Aren't first world bitcoiners looking at the people of Latin America as the possible next market for bitcoin investment -- i.e., as the "greater fools" whose money will ensure their profits?

Of course I don't have the power to "shut bitcoin down", or to pop its speculative bubble (that is collapsing on its own). All I can do is to advise those who would pay attention to me; but they are not that many either, and my powers of persuasion are no match for those of the Vers and Antonopouloses, alas.