Quote from: Marianne Skanland on February 05, 2015, 08:09:18 PM

Quote from: Naine on February 03, 2015, 12:40:42 PM

.. ...
it seems one happy end
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Somaja-8-og-Rajana-6-bortfort-pa-vei-fra-skolen-7598891.html

We know more about this story. I can't guarantee to remember correctly every detail, but it is possible to locate it in various articles.

Both parents are originally from Chechniya. The father and mother were divorced, both living in Norway. The father ran a business here. The father was/is married again, this time too to a Chechen woman, I think. They had two younger children.

The CPS took the two older children, two girls, and placed them in a foster home. When the CPS started their actions, the father's new wife and their children very wisely went back to Chechniya. The CPS were very angry about this, they had of course planned to take those children also. The father, with some help, got hold of the two older children and succeeded in bringing them to Russia / Chechniya, and he went there himself. The CPS tried to get the girls' mother to make trouble and demand they be taken back to Norway since she was here. A warrant was out for the father.

The father a little later made a statement that he would come back to Norway with the daughters if the CPS would give him a solemn promise never to do this - meaning take them away - again.

This is as naïve and stubborn as can be - he should have informed himself of realities and known better: The CPS can never make such a promise, by legislation they have no right to promise never to take a child. On the contrary, they are obliged by law to take a child if they 'suspect' or know that the child is in the need of (you know all the nice-sounding words - - -). And if the CPS in this case had said, in a sort of half-baked promise, that at the moment there was no occasion to take the girls again, that would not be binding, and at the same time there would be an uproar in CPS circles and the ministry and all sorts of places, because: how could a CPS office say that girls who were in their care and who were 'abducted' by their father (who had already been found to be unsuited/dangerous), were suddenly not in need of CPS care? That would be to admit that there was no need for the CPS at all.

In other words, the father spoke as if he believed that the local CPS office had done something a bit silly, which they would be suitably ashamed of, like naughty children, when he 'corrected' them.

Well, anyway, the CPS said nothing of the sort. The father meanwhile had financial trouble because he was not in Norway taking care of his business together with his business partner. So one day he returned to Norway in order to work, thinking that he could do it undisturbed. The girls were left in Chechniya, together with their younger siblings and their step-mother, I think.

And of course the father was arrested and put in jail pending trial as soon as he arrived.
I haven't gone after the story after that, so I don't know if there actually was a court case and, if so, what the outcome was. One gets quite exhausted at all these people (there have actually been many) who manage to save their children and then they think that they can come back after a while and nothing will happen? As if they have just had an innocent disagreement with the CPS, and the CPS would have simmered down now and realised that they had been overly dramatic and now they would be sensible and listen to the parents and let themselves be guided by the parents.

I admit I lost interest in the Chechen father. Many of these families even bring their children back with them. They think they can start afresh, after some months or a couple of years. Hah! I remember a parent or two who used to ring me up and sort of complain when I wouldn't tell them that of course they could come back now because it had all been just like a quarrel between two children, who made up and became friends again after a little while. These parents would get angry with me when I said "No, you must stay away, and you children must never set foot here until they are of age" (18 years old and their own masters). And preferably not even return then, because the CPS will be after them to take their own children if they have children in Norway, just to prove that they had bad parents so now they have become bad parents themselves. (Very primitive determinism, in other words.)

Most CPS victims who contact me and people like me, do not really want to hear the grim truth. They want me to say something they hope will be true.

But you were right, I think, Naine: it was a happy ending for the two girls, I think. Better to be in difficult Chechniya with relatives than in Norway with people obviously making money out of working as fosterers for the CPS, cut off from their own family altogether.

Marianne, just a note: Checheniya is Russia, it's a federative subject within RF (and it's one of the financially better off regions of Russia).
This case was thus also within Astahov's jurisdiction from the Russian side.

Quote from: Marianne Skanland on February 03, 2015, 12:12:06 PM

Well, at least to foreigners in Norway:

Never talk with the CPS. Insist that everything has to be in writing.
At the first indication that they want a psychologist to talk with you or they want to visit your home or talk with your children:
Get out of the country!
Make do with whatever income you can make in your own country, or some other non-Western country.
It may be hard, but having the bonds to your children violated is harder.
Do not wait: Pack 3 plastic bags with only the basic necessities for the children. If you are seen about with ordinary luggage, the CPS will stop you and take the children on an emergency decision.
When the children have been placed in a safe country, you may return to pack up properly, or even better: get friends to do that.
Do not tell people that you will be going, there are many who may report you to the CPS.
Do not book airline tickets or boat tickets, nor should you go in your own car to Sweden. Go preferably by anonymous bus. Get yourselves to Oslo, for example, there are several buses running every hour from the bus terminal in Oslo.

Very important:
1) You must go before a case over transfer of care has been opened in the County Committee, and if you are after all caught in one, then certainly before such a case has been completed. After such a case, your child belongs to the Norwegian state.
2) Get a "moving" form (flyttemelding) from the National Census register (Folkeregisteret), which is managed by the taxation office, or better: get it from the internet, fill it in properly, and post it registered mail as soon as possible after you leave, so that it is officially registered that your children (and preferably yourself) have moved out of Norway. In that way the authorities cannot claim that you are just away on a holiday, in which case they could go ahead with a CPS case without you being there.
3) Do not be too optimistic - do not come back. The local CPS will not have forgotten you, and CPS offices all over the country are equally terrible - there might be a few odd exceptions in a few odd places for a while, but they are exceptions, and they will not be able to stand up against a report against you from another source.

This list should be handed out to all hopeful visa applicants to Norway, who plan to take children with them!
By the way, it would make a nice leaflet material for the Czech demonstration.

An interesting comprehensive site from US:
http://medicalkidnap.com/news/page/2/