Quote from: fluffypony on February 08, 2015, 08:10:48 PM

Unfortunately no, not possible.

What about optionally reduced security, while also offering the same security?

Quote from: fluffypony on February 08, 2015, 08:10:48 PM

Moore's law is a worthy discussion - the average Bitcoin transaction is 250 bytes, and Moore's law says that "it" doubles every 2 years (Moore's law is too slow to apply to everything, mind you, Kryder's law is typically applied to disk storage density, and that predicts 40tb drives costing $40 by the time we hit 2020). If we go solely based on Moore's law, though, we get January 2009 (Bitcoin genesis block) to today as around 6 years, so a transaction size growth of 3x = average Monero transaction size of 750 bytes.

Yes, I had gotten the vibe that I had misrepresented Moore's law likely at the same time as you were writing your post, sorry for that. Perhaps we should use it more as an example of some law that represents "real physical barriers that will hinder significant usage, due to network capacity and HDD capacity". I'll look into Kryder's law, as it seems a little bit better at describing what I was trying to say, but I'm unsure if it encompasses network capacity as well as HDD space? Also, please remove the block reward, if you would, from your standard Monero transaction size, as I'm willing to believe that the coinbase reward is likely 50% or more of the actual representative transaction on the network, and would have a large effect on this value you've presented as it's a single input transaction with no mixin, and i don't believe it's representative of a standard transaction size unlike bitcoin. I would do so myself, but it seems like you've analyzed this in-depth and would only have to to absolutely minimal work. Also, the 10x faster block reward in Monero compared to Bitcoin would skew this number even further.

Unless, this number has already had this done to it?

Guess I'll look!

What is it?

Total transactions - total blocks = number of real transactions

and

size of blockchain - (number of real transactions * size of block with only coinbase reward) = size of monero blockchain due to real transactions

Then take the (number of real transactions) and divide it by the (size of monero blockchain) to find the average size of real monero transactions?

Sorry if you've already done this, just wondering?

Quote from: fluffypony on February 08, 2015, 08:10:48 PM

This is a tough one - which is more applicable? Kryder's law or Moore's? What about bandwidth?

It's mostly bandwidth and HDD space that I was concerned with. HDD space could be mitigated because I'm operating under the assumption that the blockchain can be legitimately pruned, and not just a mere reduction in size, so that leaves bandwidth the major hinderance.

What kind of bandwidths does this use?

I'm curious, because with all this net neutrality stuff in the USA, you're likely going to see monthly GB caps become a harsh reality, coupled with already allowable network speeds.

Taking into account that most people would likely opt for streaming netflix or some other form of media rather than use the conventional tv cable lines, this starts to choke up the bandwidth accessible to p2p cryptocurrencies, torrents, etc. 300 million of the richest people on the planet, and arguably the same demographic that provides a major basis of cryptocurrencies, will have to budget their bandwith to accomodate these things, or be faced with overusage penalties. So now, we're not only talking about Kryder's law, were also looking at some adulterated version of it that will likely come into play if you're hitting around 30Gb a month in network usage.

Quote from: fluffypony on February 08, 2015, 08:10:48 PM

The bottom line is this: Bitcoin's transaction size is only going to increase if privacy becomes an issue and people start using mixers or similar as a daily occurrence. Transactional privacy requires a trade-off. It's clear that ZeroCoin's trade-off is too large *right now*, but in 10 years time maybe even that will be acceptable. For the moment Monero's transaction size/privacy trade-off is at an acceptable ratio, and whilst we aren't blind to alternatives that may allow us to reduce the per-tx size we're also not going to chase a linear reduction. Our efforts at reducing size implication would be far better spent on finding a solution, in the future, to completely pruning the blockchain.

I like it!