Quote from: bitgeek on February 18, 2015, 06:39:46 PM

Quote from: tee-rex on February 17, 2015, 09:10:08 PM

Quote from: MichaelBliss on February 17, 2015, 06:29:37 PM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on February 17, 2015, 06:11:00 PM

Quote from: bitgeek on February 16, 2015, 08:04:32 PM

I see a lot of angry Russians in this thread. You shouldn't be ashamed, you have such a beautiful history of shooting unarmed prisoners in the back of the head (1940), just like ISIS is doing now.

It wasn't about unarmed prisoners, but about deserters.
Enacted by Djugashivi/Stalin - a Georgian.
And now this practice is encated by law in modern Ukraine.
PoWs in USSR got better rations than the Soviet citizens. Get your history strait - historical accuracy is not optional thing to serve your needs.

I'm on your side of the argument but I have to point out he could be referring to the Katyn massacre by the NKVD, where thousands of the most educated Poles - officers, doctors, etc. - were rounded up, and executed many with a bullet to the back of the head. (Although I believe, many more were put out on barges then sunk).

The Soviets blamed this crime on the Germans for decades, and many Poles have not forgiven "Russia" for this national catastrophe. Nor has Russia properly apologized or taken responsibly for this, or any of their atrocities against Poland in WWII. Just trying to shed some light on Poland's seemingly pro-banderite stance, but not justify it in any way.

Sorry, but it cuts both ways. The Poles also love to lay themselves out on the Battle of Praga in 1794 that was followed by a massacre of the civilian population by Alexander Suvorov's troops. But they forget to mention the slaughter of over half of the Russian garrison in Warsaw a few months earlier, when about 2,000 Russian soldiers had been mercilessly killed. You may ask what the hell the Russian troops were doing in Warsaw back then? This is a good question, but then I may well ask you what the Poles were doing in Moscow in 1612?

Yes I was talking about Katyn. Russians denied responsibility for this until the 90s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eefn1FyXC9w

Recently some new NKVD orders came to light.
http://www.polskieradio.pl/beb140df-b78c-4035-a4ae-44eee61f8750.file
In the years 1937-38 A lot of Poles living in the territory of the Soviet Union were captured and murdered, just like Jews in Germany at that time, not to mention the Russian attack in 1939, which was called in Poland a backstabbing and was never forgotten. Russia even maintained missile bases and kept troops in Poland until the bitter end of socialism, which by many is viewed as passive occupation.

The relationships between Poland and Russia have never been good, and they got much worse during Putin's reign.

That said, if I met a Russian in a bar I'd rather drink with him than start a fight, so there's no hate here.

A lot of things would make more sense if people started to use Soviets instead of Russians, when talking about the time when Russia was under Soviet Union. It would create a better foundation of historical understanding.

About Soviet (not Russian) bases. Isn't is much the same as NATO bases now? Wink

There are many things that Russians remember about Poles, that are not good, so as tee-rex said - it cuts both ways.
One does not even have to go as far occupation of Moscow in 1612. Poles came into modern Russian territory in 1918-1920 during the Soviet-Polish war, when Polish army occupied most of today's Ukraine and was stopped by the Red Army after a lot of bitter fighting. That operation, by the way, was performed with the blessing of USA, GB and France.

As for Putin, what is it that Putin did to Poland to worsen the relationships (except, of course, from the fact of still breathing)?

So far I've seen quite a lot of negativity coming against Russia from the Polish top brass. Interestingly, I didn't feel the same negativity from the citizens, when I visited Poland. So, maybe people just need to come together and talk

I found an echo of it in the following article in a Russian newspaper, that I translated
http://stanislavs.org/the-sorrow-of-a-warsaw-woman-why-poland-is-not-happy-to-be-liberated-from-fascism/