Quote from: koin on July 30, 2012, 03:15:39 AM

Quote from: Gavin Andresen on November 08, 2010, 05:08:33 PM

we're in the Wild West days of open-source currency. I expect people will get burned by scams, imitators, ponzi schemes and price bubbles..

I tend not to worry about things that are out of my control; I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about scammers, imitators, and ponzi schemes besides warning people to be careful with their money (whether dollars, euros or bitcoins).

there are many people who hold an opinion on the matter but they aren't outspoken about it. when each of these ponzi fund house of cards falls, some people will be hurt badly, others (those who have made most or all of their money back already) will barely be nicked and most will feel no impact at all as they were smart enough to keep a healthy distance. you don't hear from them. you probably won't, even if they were asked for their opinion.

this is definitely a circus but it is nowhere near to being significant in bitcoin's progression. just as few today remember or care much about the mtgox hack or mybitcoin fiasco, this too shall pass.

agree on macro level but still hold true to my original points in this thread:

1) on the scale of "will BTC work" these ponzi's are minor. Andresen's used similar words when describing the currency: "wild, wild west" and in the poker parlance of our times "a no-limit currency" A poster in this thread said something to the effect of "this will help weed out the stupid" - indeed, but at the extreme benefit of a scammer who will try and scam again after being so successful and easy this time.

2) The next major headline about bitcoin will likely be about BCST & the derivatives (so shameful, but at the same time laughable - this scammer has a huge affiliate program for his scam). Think about the scale of the previous BTC thefts and sites that scammed and ran away with the coins - I think mid 6 digits is our current record - and the BTC writers that know their shit like Jon Matonis will write the story with a headline something like this "$1M+ USD bitcoin ponzi scheme collapses" and the first paragraph will be about a guy named "Pirateat40" with a fake entity called "Bitcoin Savings & Trust" posting that he pays 7% weekly interest and can do so because:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.

and stupid internet nerds sent him $1M USD in BTC. Pirateat40? Bitcoin Savings & Trust? - now just making me laugh. He is openly mocking any of you that in any way sent him money. If you ran or do run a pass-through to make .1% for helping a scammer scam the entire community, you are shameful and I hate you. If you didn't think you were doing a bad thing when you started and now understand that you are helping an evil scammer scam, please PM me and I can help guide you on how to best dismantle your operation and return max value to your investors. The few that will listen to me will save their investors at least some of the principle. If you are running a pass-through, know it's a scam and feel the need to blindly defend Pirate because your .1% per week is at stake then you are also shameful and I also hate you.

2) these have infected and made laughable the bitcoin stock exchange. GLBSE cannot possibly allow derivatives of scams to be listed as "bonds." Again, making BTC in general appear foolish, childish, and with scams around every corner so watch out.

3) IMO, net effect extremely -EV (negative expected value as us stupid gamblers use to describe future equity) to allow these to continue as is and keep them labeled as Lending. Do we know who the top moderators are on this forum? who owns it? This forum is extremely important to spreading BTC. We must make sure it is in safe hands.