Quote from: Coolstoryteller on March 03, 2015, 07:30:01 PM

Quote from: LongAndShort on February 28, 2015, 11:48:11 PM

This project needs more devs and less of the gimmick crap... You all know i'm quite blunt and frank at times. I'll remain consistent and state an observation.

Gimmick is sneaking into this project...again.
The ShadowBay is not viable or feasible in the current state of its team makeup! Just be realistic about what you expect and what you encourage others to expect about that kind of gimmik crap this early. (My message to the community)

The team clearly stated it is looking into ShadowBay as an idea from the mass of the shadow community. But most people here, a week later started to change that story and started saying its happening within a month or so. (making me vomit) Personally i don't see it as something that will be viable nor will it be close to completion this year. Its a gimik that most projects tried to use to justify price increase. It was and has always been driven by communities who think they know what they want and need. And i fear that its a pipedream of most to become a launchpad to "the moon". It is not a launchpad in this case and never will be unless there is sufficient talent, resource and motivation to fund devtime to completion. Besides, the core is not even working consistently across all platforms yet.

Many of you may think we need it now but i argue that its fools errand and that we do not. You will burn out the current team then the project will die.... I will stake my life on that!

Ryno, Techno need and want more devs interested in the tech. Not the gimmick shit most of you want to justify a rise in value.

The focus here should be recruiting dev talent and appealing to them. Leave the gimmick wet fart to xc, xst and the rest of those trash communities please.

The review will be good but not for what most of you think it will be good for.. It should not justify some price rise... It will and should be considered to be ip added to the project. It should be considered as somewhat of a tarmac paved road for devs to understand and be exposed to the tech. This is great tech that not many people in this field know about yet. Professionals want white paper facts, stats and cohesive reports on the tech. They have no time for promises, gimmicks and communities of trader only, influenced decisions. The focus here should be dev talent and exposure not through gimmick but through cold hard stats and facts!

The cold hard truth is; I can easily tell that the devs are burnt out already. The tech is great and the future is possibly extremely bright. However, the project should be put into beta mode so that it is very clear that the wallet is not completely bug free. Which, as you all know, it isnt. There should be a dev entry point and i strongly advise time and effort be focused less on gimmick bullshit and more on crawling before we walk and by that i mean focus more on ryno, techno's support. They need more devs and the tech needs more debate and scrutiny.

There is to much pressure on them to serve the trader and not enough support for them to actually go back and refine what they already have so it actually works.

I'm appalled that the marketplace has taken place of file voice and video support. Kim Dot Com and the rest of the world is going to show you just how important and relevant that stuff is, to both devs and mainstream.

Anyhow..thats my rant. I just encourage you, the community, to go back and rehash this whole marketplace stuff and the expectations you are laying on it.
I and anyone with half a nut can see this projects foundations have not yet been finished. It wont handle any kind of weight and its fast becoming yet another house of cards; doomed to join ranks with the rest of the ditched projects that actually had potential in this space. Because, as you know, its insanity to see the same moves and decisions being made and expecting it to be any different to them.

Nice to hear from you Longandshort.

Please enlighten me how voice and video is less of a gimmick than a marketplace where people can buy and sell goods or services. This is a currency project, a major component of currency is commerce.. not voice and video chat. There are plenty of options and projects that provide private voice communication and there isn't one currently that provides private commerce. In the original Bitcoin code Satoshi had a marketplace concept which was later taken out.. so one could assume his original vision was a decentralized currency coupled with a distributed marketplace.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21bdki/fun_fact_the_original_satoshi_bitcoin_code/
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/5253d1ab77fab1995ede03fb934edd67f1359ba8

Commerce with coins has been plagued for years by theft either from operators or hackers or a combination of operators blaming hackers to cover their own theft. Communication is key between parties and that can be handled with the current implementation of Shadowchat. Improvements to Shadowchat could be made like assigning user names to address and pubkey combos to ease the learning curve but I think for the majority of users text works just fine. The marketplace is also something that the community decided (IRC and SDtalk) should take precedent over voice and video not anyone on the team or any shitty trading group.

While I do agree with you that core bugs should be a priority over everything else, I don't for one second believe that the marketplace is a gimmick or a futile attempt to increase the marketcap spurred off by traders. CRZ has been working on the marketplace experience for three months straight now refining it and developing it into a superior solution to OpenBazaar and other projects. Day traders will continue to speculate price and play with markets but that has no bearing on the progress made behind the scenes to establish an end-to-end decentralized commerce solution. The fruits of CRZ's labor will be released very soon. Something that goes beyond any of the competing privacy coins.

There is no pressure on the backend devs with regards to the marketplace. However, Crz has been under a lot of pressure to deliver the marketplace but he is a perfectionist and good things come to those who wait for his work to be delivered. Countless competing projects have tried to buy CRZ away from Shadow and he's still here working. The only pressure coming at the SDC devs is working to provide cleaner documentation for future contributing developers. Multiple reviewers have asked for cleaner docs and the general community and prospective holders are waiting for independent review for the system. I personally don't look at the review as something to boost the marketcap but something to provide clarity and validation. If that validation comes then it is something that will lower the barrier of entry for future holders.

If you're concerned with attracting developers to the project, St3Bas joined last month and he's doing an amazing job building new features, improvements and being active on the forums and IRC. He's a great addition to the core team..

Good documentation not only helps with bringing in developers but also helps with improving the existing framework by allowing higher level academics to peer review and suggest improvements. In my opinion, the current whitepaper was rushed out due to holder pressure and as a result the devs are busy providing docs and technical specs. Both the current reviewer and the CN reference developers have asked SDC devs for more technical specs for their review. I for one am glad to see that the core devs are actively working to that goal.

The forum trolls will continue to attack to project, same with developers from competing projects. But at the end of the day their trolling doesn't mean shit and is a piss poor marketing attempt to draw people into their shitcoin investments or lower the entry into the SDC market. The project needs to ignore that and continue working to fix core issues, engage existing holders with support, provide updates for mobile applications and deliver the best distributed private marketplace experience.

According to ffmad as of next week SDCDev will be more active here as his backpacking trip is winding down. I'm positive once he's back in the saddle again with reliable internet and electricity, the project's progress will resume back to pre-backpacking levels. Some of the concepts he's came up with for the project while in the middle of the jungle are awe-inspiring. For everyone who has stayed with the project during SDCDev's backpacking trip you're in for a wild ride this year.

Secure, Voice File and Video support is extremely relevant in todays age. I'm not comparing the two side by side becuase i think its unfair and i actually like the marketplace idea and would love to see it of course. However i think one is more viable and "doable" short term. And one is a bit much to chew off short term. One is a stepping stone to something as huge and complex as a marketplace, which is to me, looking like the project is trying to run before it crawls.

I'm sorry if most of you misunderstood me saying its a gimmick. I meant only that its used as a gimmick by most projects. One that may never come to fruition. Kind of like stealthcoins' chandran signatures, not researched and thrown out there as a speculative asset long before it was even possible to achieve given the team makeup. The reason i'm appalled is because VFV support is extremely important as a base foundation for the core, in my opinion. Completing it as a means to communicate securely giving much more exposure to Shadows underlying tech sooner and without the inevitable stigma that is attached to any kind of theoretical decentralized marketplace. Most importantly the team was already setup to realise it shorterm. The team for a marketplace has to be much different. And like it or not it does need a few specialists or it will be a stream of beta and bugs for years.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/22/kim-dotcom-launches-encrypted-voice-chat-skype-killer

To me it makes sense to build one before the other. And to me, voice file and video seems more realistic given the devtime Shadow currently has up its sleeve.
But thats just my opinion. Inevitably, i know the focus isn't going to change. I'm just confused how it went from being a concept one week to a priority the next.
So in short we still agree on most things i only warned that SB is a bit much to go for, however im not keen to stifle it either

GL TR
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304591604579292222768536610

I argue that the Shadowbay, right now, will chew everyones time and all resource. Thus it not allowing Ryno and anyone else to work on and deliver the neat things they have in mind.

PoS needs to change, core needs to become more robust and all the platform builds need to be in line with a procedure for updating them all that is more structured.