Quote from: FredericBastiat on August 01, 2012, 10:19:44 PM

Quote from: niemivh on August 01, 2012, 08:46:40 PM

You should have been around for the long, hundred+ pages I wrote refuting every salient aspect of what can be referred to as "Libertarianism". Just go browse my old posts.

Plus I'm writing a book (albeit slowly) that is going to refute and destroy every aspect of this cult-ideology. I hope to be able to finish it in a year and am starting officially end of August or first of September.

Point me in the general direction, otherwise I won't bother (or summarize as I have). I'd love to see how you use logic to explain it away, or is that not a necessary component to your refutation? I'd imagine the fact you consider your reasoning to have any meaning and be worthy of review it would have to be logical, in which case, I'd be interested in what axioms you start with to begin your arguments.

You see the problem isn't the fact that you can make any moral rules you want, the issue is one of enforcing them. At that point things get really dicey. They're great for those who sign on to be ruled in such a fashion, but makes it extraordinarily violent for those who just want to be left to their druthers. It's when opinion, ethics and morality crosses over into the physical world where you start to produce a plethora of consequences.

"I won't bother". The anthem of Libertarians everywhere. The thermonuclear weapon of argumentation deployed by the Libs.

Well you can click my name and then look at my past posts and then find the biggest ones and then go to those threads and follow the arguments. That isn't that hard really. Sorry if I'm not desiring to paraphrase everything on this website multiple times for each user, as I'm one of the very few (only?) users who has posted anything substantial in size (or merit, for that matter). Plus, if you are as lazy as all the other Libertarians, as evidenced by your 'threat' of apathy (which I think, for you, is probably more a way of life), why should I do anything for you? I would be willing to meet anyone that was honestly interested in having a debate, someone inquisitive and curious about the world 'half way' so to speak and would donate many, many hours of my personal time trying to convince someone of something who wasn't so slothful.

And what are you talking about when you say: "I'd love to see how you use logic to explain it away, or is that not a necessary component to your refutation?"

? What is that in reference to?

Here is a list of books that you can read that will roughly approximate what I think and have to say on these topics until I'm able to write my own book(s) on these topics. I'm no longer interested in long-winded discussions with people on this site. Maybe that'll change at some point, but Myrkul was a good debater for a while until the arguments I posed never were answered and he tried repeatedly to simply run the conversation in circles with 'bigger' and 'better' (but really worse and more stupid) analogies.

Here's a good list to start with:

1st tier:

* "Oligarchy" by Jeffrey A. Winters
* "Harmony of Interests" by Henry Carey
* "National System of Political Economy" by Friedrich List
* "Surviving the Cataclysm" by Webster G. Tarpley
* "Past, Present, and Future" by Henry Carey
* "Sophisms of Free Trade" by John B. Byles
* "Road to Reaction" by Hermin Finer

2nd/3rd tier:

* "Anti-libertarianism: Markets, philosophy and myth" by Alan Haworth
* "Democratizing Globalization: The Leverage of the Tobin Tax" by Heikki Patomaki
* "Zombie Economics: How Dead Ideas Still Walk among Us" by John Quiggin
* "Debunking Economics" by Steve Keen
* "The Enigma of Capital: And the Crises of Capitalism" by David Harvey