Quote from: Erdogan on April 04, 2015, 01:27:28 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on April 04, 2015, 12:17:22 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on January 19, 2015, 10:00:53 PM

i made a point some time ago that if Bitcoin were to become a global reserve currency, much like gold, due to maintaining the 1MB block size, all Bitcoin 2.0 projects trying to ride the MC would be eliminated due to high tx costs. in that case, the blockchain would only be applicable to Bitcoin as Money:

https://twitter.com/bramcohen/status/557287567121346560

There is no such thing as intrinsic value.

All value is subjective , as beheld in the mind of the observer.

All value is subjegated collectively through the market which reaches a consensus price.

If you do not beleive me ask a monkey what has more value - a warehouse full of gold bullion or a single bannana.

There is a thing called intrinsic value. It means that the thing has value in itself. The intrinsic value is subjective, as you stated. Most things have intrinsic value. It is only money that have value that is not intrinsic, money has exchange value. So for instance fiat money have no intrinsic value, the only value is speculation that others will exchange something for it in the future, near or far.

From this we can draw the conclusion that paper money, and bitcoin has only speculative value, gold and houses have partlty intrinsic value, partly speculative value, and most other things have only intrinsic value.

Please don't spread confusion, these concepts are really easy to understand if not clouded.

Not as simple as that.
"Intrinsic" has several usages/definitions. There's a relatively rigid definition for "intrinsic" as used in the context of philosophy--
"An intrinsic property is a property that an object or a thing has of itself, independently of other things, including its context. An extrinsic (or relational) property is a property that depends on a thing's relationship with other things."--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_and_extrinsic_properties_(philosophy)

In other words, your claim that "intrinsic value is subjective" is nonsensical. It breaks the definition.

"Intrinsic value is an ethical and philosophic property. It is the ethical or philosophic value that an object has "in itself" or "for its own sake", as an intrinsic property. An object with intrinsic value may be regarded as an end or (in Kantian terminology) end-in-itself."--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_value_(ethics)

This is another piece of phil. jargon, differentiating "intrinsic value" from from "instrumental value." An example of "intrinsic value would be something like "Truth is good, art is good, murder is bad"--things that are good in themselves, not as a means of getting at something else. These are held as axiomatic & not requiring further proof, so there's that.

Here's an example of "Instrumental value": "A shovel has instrumental value--it is useful for getting gold, which, in turn is also instrumentally valuable for obtaining the thing I ultimately want--bliss."

Again, intrinsic value, by definition, can not be subjective here either. It could be [convincingly] argued that there's no such thing as "intrinsic value," but subjective it ain't.

Finally, there's an iffy definition of "intrinsic" as used in finance:
"In finance, intrinsic value refers to the value of a company, stock, currency or product determined through fundamental analysis without reference to its market value.[1] It is also frequently called fundamental value. It is ordinarily calculated by summing the discounted future income generated by the asset to obtain the present value. It is worthy to note that this term may have different meanings for different assets."--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsic_value_(finance)

Feel free to rassle with that one