Quote from: hofor on April 13, 2015, 12:13:28 AM

Zionists aren't a people, but rather a movement working towards a homeland for the Jews. And they succeeded.

people who support zionism are zionists, its not difficult

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Palestine was not someone else's country, but rather an area under British administration in the years before Israel was founded.

a territorys being under foreign colonial administration doesn't negate the rights of citizens of said territory. the british themselves recognised the rights of palestines non jewish population in the balfour declaration.

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I'm not sure who you are referring to as the original inhabitants, as Palestine had a rather small population before the Jewish immigration started around 1900.

everyone living there, mostly non je ws

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Yes, Arabs were expelled from Israel, but this was because of the war that several Arab countries started in an attempt to wipe out the newly founded state. As a matter of fact, there were about 50/50 Arabs and Jews in Israel originally. Had the Arabs not started the war, all those people would not have been refugees today.

arab population in what was to be israel was lower at 40ish% but whatever, that's still far too many to have a viable jewish state. like i told the other guy it was too high for the peel commission and its still too high in 2015. the idea jews were willing to live with such a huge arab population is some childish bullshit that used to appear in israeli school textbooks before benny morris came out with his book in the 80s and debunked it.

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Ben-Gurion was a "transferist"?

"Of course. Ben-Gurion was a transferist. He understood that there could be no Jewish state with a large and hostile Arab minority in its midst. There would be no such state. It would not be able to exist."

I don't hear you condemning him.

"Ben-Gurion was right. If he had not done what he did, a state would not have come into being. That has to be clear. It is impossible to evade it. Without the uprooting of the Palestinians, a Jewish state would not have arisen here."

http://www.haaretz.com/survival-of-the-fittest-1.61345

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As for defending themselves, do you really consider launching rockets at civilians a form of defense?

reciprocity. killing civilians to get an aggressor to stop killing your civilians is self defence.

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This is not true. Israeli Arabs do have their full rights, and they also have laws protecting them as a minority. Furthermore, Arabic is an official language in Israel.

You can't expect Israel to give equal rights to foreigners, and no other state on earth does that.

one is not a foreigner in his own country but this is moot as the palestinians have all but given up on the right of return for refugees. the two options are one state with everyone having citizenship or two separate states. the current situation where the israelis get to control everything while denying half the people their rights and expropriates still more of their land from time to time when the world's attention is off them wont be allowed to continue indefinitely.

if you want don't want the jews to end up like the white rhodesians and south africans then you should be telling them to disengage from palestinian areas and build up their wall as high as they can.

Quote from: hofor on April 13, 2015, 12:22:25 AM

Israel is a beacon of freedom and democracy in the area. Minorities are granted equal rights and protection under law. Arabic is even an official language in Israel. Individual rights are extremely important. For example, where else in the area would you expect to see homosexuals parading through the streets celebrating their sexual orientation as they do yearly in Tel Aviv? Comparing this to people from societies where freedom of speech is non-existent and where homosexuals are executed is quite a stretch!

The Jews in Palestine mostly settled down in areas where there weren't any existing inhabitants in the first place. Palestine was not a country of its own but rather just a rather big and rather empty area under different rulers. I'm not sure why you think Jews shouldn't be allowed to make use of freely available space in the middle of nowhere, where no one has laid any claims to the land in the first place.

this is mostly correct. the early zionist pioneers were peaceful and didn't displace anyone and actually created opportunities for arabs with their european technology and agriculture. everyone got along. it was only once it became clear the jewish leadership were making moves to create a separate state with a jewish majority inevitably leading to arab disenfranchisement that arabs started being uppity and rioting.

the arabs can burn your freedom of speech loving sodomites alive for all i care

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What are these no-go areas for natives related to Israel, if I may ask?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdLDv8JNnMA
Army separator between Jews and Palestinians on a main street, Hebron 2015