Quote from: Grinder on April 13, 2015, 08:23:20 AM

Quote from: hofor on April 12, 2015, 11:24:16 PM

Nothing is going on in those countries. I know it sounds like madness and unbelievable, but that's because it is. It is not true. Many of the claims are simply false, and anyone who bothered to look it up would see that they are false.

You are wasting your time. Those who participate in this part of the forum are all conspiracy nuts, and there is nothing you can say that will make them change their mind.

Grinder, "Those who participate in this part of the forum are all conspiracy nuts" is not an argument, abut a logical fallacy, called Ad Hominem. It's main goal is to discredit and demonise a messenger and to divert the discussion from the topic at hand and onto a person delivering the message. In this case no attempt is made to address the topic. It's use is usually a strong counter-indicator that the topic has some merit and some party desperately wants that topic to disappear.

hofor also resorts to a logical fallacy in "Many of the claims are simply false, and anyone who bothered to look it up would see that they are false." referring to some unspecified claims that are allegedly false and not saying what is exactly false.

Actually, hofor states that in direct opposition to all the evidence that's been collected in this thread and to the evidence/articles pointed to on related forums.

Now that we have this out of the way, let me reiterate some of the evidence, by asking three questions.

1. How would you classify an act of a country that detains a child with a foreign citizenship despite protests of this child's guardians and the childs home-country. Further this country provides shaky or no evidence to extradite this child to his home-country? In my book that's kidnapping/abduction. And that's exactly what happened in the case of the 3 Russian families, mentioned in the OP and in subsequent posts, as well as to Czech families, Polish families and the recent Lithuanian families, whose case hofor so viciously attacked.

2. What would you say face-to-face, to the father, who's daughters are held in captivity by the Norwegian state:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=828129.msg10752510#msg10752510

3. How would you describe the following selection of official reasons, given in order to deprive parents of their children and children of their parents?
http://www.mhskanland.net/page10/page122/page122.html

Finally, do read Marianne Skanland's posts, and keep an eye on the following sites
Save our children: http://forum.r-b-v.net/
English subsection: http://www.barnevern.org/category/utenlandske-nyheter/

Quote from: hofor on April 12, 2015, 11:54:52 PM

As a thought experiment, let's consider a child who's being beaten and sexually abused by both of its parents. Should this child not be taken away from them?

I can answer this one. Yes. But that's not the majority of child extraction cases. What about the cases, when the child is a foreign citizen? Why should Norway so desperately hold onto a citizen of another country, breaking every thinkable international law? What about the cases, where the child, after having been taken from his parents, is beaten and mistreated by the foster parents, but is return to those abusers even if he managers to escape?

A longer update by Marianne about the Lithuanian case has rolled over onto the previous page:
DO NOT POST SESC LINKS #top

Also, here are some updates on it in English:
http://www.barnevern.org/litauen-search-for-litauanien-boy-in-norway/

Quote

...
The appeal stressed that Mr G. Bumbulio mother Lečinskienė maternity rights are not deprived of Lithuania than those of the Norwegian courts. These rights have been deprived of Møre og Romsdal county commission decision, which lawyers said, although it has the right to decide child custody issues in Norway, but is not a judicial body.

«The Norwegian authorities have no right to restrict citizens of Lithuania fundamental rights and freedoms. Lithuania Article 13 of the Constitution states: «The State of Lithuania protect its citizens abroad. Therefore, our authorities must do everything that it is not empty words, but concrete works, especially in the young Lithuanian citizens and juvenile protection or care. The fact that the Lithuanian authorities have been prevented from participating in deciding the fate of a citizen of the minor, the fact that it was not able to give him our support and assistance to the state at the time when he needed it the most, is a blatant violation of our Constitution. Lets get to the end and show concrete actions that we care about our people, and that our public institutions to be reckoned with when dealing with our children, «- says Valentine Mazuronis.
...

Another case:
http://www.barnevern.org/aistei-ramoskienei-fra-litauen-mistet-sonnen-til-norske-barnevernet/
A Lithuanian woman lost her 5-yo child to Norwegian CPS, after she left her husband, who displayed violent attitude. I'll write an English translation of the article later.